Riding sail question

[Jim Lewis]

How have you been getting out of slip thus far????? Seems like you are doing what is necessary. I would think to add any windage would increase ramming speed from a 1/4 kt to a full kt.
or more. For every 50 perfect docking, there is always one that you will wind up 90 degrees to where you want to go.....good luck your way with whatever you try, but if you have been successful so far with no damage, why change.......

[slaume]

Maybe less need to wash the undergarments. Along with longer more luxurious nails. Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

Run a line from the bow around some object on the finger and back to the bow. Now you have total control over the bows distance from the finger.

That part works fine in keeping the bow up so long as I am within striking distance of the finger. Problem is that at the same time, the stern is about to be eaten by the anchor monster docked to leeward of me.

What I'm trying to solve for is being far enough out in the fairway to clear my neighbor while changing the center of effort so that it's the stern that ends up downwind.

[Neil Gordon]

How have you been getting out of slip thus far?????

I can do it with assistance if someone is on the finger giving the bow a big shove to windward as I back. That gets the boat spinning in the right direction and I can hold the bow up without much difficulty. I'd prefer to be able to depart without assistance other than what's on board.

[Neil Gordon]

Laundry might be the answer! Hang the wash on the aft lifelines, backstay, etc., and the effect is about the same as a riding sail, I suspect.

[rtbates]

Add two trolling motors, one on the bow, one on the stern. You'll now have 100% control, 100% of the time.

randy 25d seraph #161

[slaume]

A really long sculling oar may enable you to work the stern around too. I used to have a Labrador retriver that would tow me out from the dock as I laid on the bow of my Laser. I could point to where I wanted to go while holding his tail. He loved it and was used to the pointing to help him blind retrive sticks. He was an amazing sailing companion. He would always tow or just swim out untill I got everything squared away then I would haul him aboard. He weighed about 90LBS and would climb up on my chest while hiking out. Great for keeping the boat on a flat plane but really tough on the abs. You might need a couple of big dogs for a CD-28. We are looking for a pup now again, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

A really long sculling oar may enable you to work the stern around too.

<<

I like the creativity. Remember that I'm talking about conditions where I can barely hold the boat without taking a turn on a cleat. If the wind is lighter, I can usually turn the boat within its own length just using bursts of power against the rudder.

As for using the pup, I don't think she could drag a 9000 lb boat. Plus, her specialty is in tacking; self taught, by the way.

[Matt Cawthorne]

Neil,
I have the same problem, particularly in the fall. The prevailing winds in strong weather put the wind on my starboard quarter (I park bow in). I need to back out and turn to the right. What I do now is back out and the bow is instantly blown to port, particularly when the winds are over 15 knots. I suppose with some roaring engine work and frantic wheel turning I could get the bow to the right after a few tries, but it can be hard on the equipment and is generally too much panic for me. I go with the wind initially. Then I take the boat down the fairway until there is a spot with about 1.5 boat lengths to turn in. I put the boat in forward with the rudder hard over to starboard until the bow is almost into the wind. I then drop it in reverse with a good deal of power to keep from ramming the Hinkley broadside. The boat will pivot about it's CG. When the bow is through the eye of the wind the bow is blown in the direction I want to go. I just put it in forward and all looks smooth and calm.

I had similar thoughts to yours, but never tried it. You would like a riding sail that has just enough area to keep the bow from blowing off. If you put too much sail up the boat will be blown sideways with too much force. I would try it with a smallish riding sail first. It should do what you are looking for it to do. It would be nice if you could get a roller furling riding sail so that you did not have it out until the stern is well clear of the dock.

Good luck.

Matt

[Neil Gordon]

I go with the wind initially. Then I take the boat down the fairway until there is a spot with about 1.5 boat lengths to turn in. I put the boat in forward with the rudder hard over to starboard until the bow is almost into the wind. I then drop it in reverse with a good deal of power to keep from ramming the Hinkley broadside. The boat will pivot about it's CG.

That's very cool.

I have about a boat length and a half to work with, maybe more, although it doesn't look that way when the wind is blowing. I think there might be room to turn if I head downwind initially, put the boat into a tight turn and get it spinning. I'll give it a try early in the spring when there are still lots of empty slips.

One other worst case strategy is to just let the boat go to leeward to the dead end of the fairway. There's no boat on the main dock... I could snuggle there and spring the bow upwind from there.

[Neil Gordon]

I'm curious to know where this big shove to windward comes from if there's nothing on the leeward side.

Good question... I can see why you can't picture it.

With help on the finger, the "shove" starts with a pull on the starboard bow line. As the bow is held up to windward while I back, the bow is pulled to windward until my assistant/dock person can reach the bowsprit. It's then that I get the big shove. (To be honest about it, the "shove" is sometimes a hard pull on the dock line.)

[Carter Brey]

Neil,

Here's an idea I've cribbed from watching the Italians Med moor over the past couple of years. You might be able to adapt it.

As you know, classic Med mooring involves backing into the quay after having dropped anchor a couple or three boat lengths out. The sailors I saw on the islands of Ponza, Ischia and Capri used an ingenious gimmick to save them some work.

The marina already had anchors set out in the middle of the fairways. Their rodes were led along the bottom back to the quay and were made fast to easily reached rings set in the sea wall next to where the boats would dock, stern-to.

The boat would be backed in, the stern lines made fast, and then a crewmember would pick up the end of the anchor rode and walk it forward (lifting it from the bottom and letting it run through his hand as he went toward the anchor itself, you see), making it fast to the bow cleat. Voila: instant bow anchor.

What if you used this variation:

With permission of your marina, you use your dink to run a mushroom anchor (essentially a mooring anchor, but with no floats or bridles of any kind) out to the middle of your fairway, the rode leading back to a cleat on the dock finger. As part of your departure routine, you rig a snatch block to a bow cleat, and pick up the anchor rode to run it through the snatch block.

As you back out, the rode runs through the snatch block, allowing you freedom of movement straight sternward but preventing your bow from falling off. As you reach a point near the anchor, you shift into neutral, allowing the wind to blow your stern downwind while the anchor holds your bow to windward.

You move nimbly to the foredeck, release the rode from the snatch block, move just as nimbly back to the cockpit and shift into forward gear before the bow has any chance to fall off.

The rode, absent any tension on it from your boat, sinks quickly to the bottom, posing no fouling threat to other boats. Perhpas an all-chain rode would ensure that it sank before your prop had any chance of fouling it.

Another idea: instead of a mid-channel anchor, the rode could simply be led all the way across the channel to a corresponding point on the other side. It would simply be a line running transversely along the bottom, fastened to rings or bollards or what have you at the fingers on either side. That way it could be used in the same way by anybody departing from either side (more appealing to the community spirit of the marina) and would be a simpler setup (no unwieldy mushroom anchor to deal with).

Yet another idea: instead of a snatch block, you could run the rode through a snap shackle rigged to a bow fitting and with a line running from the release pin all the way back to the cockpit. No running up to the foredeck. Only drawback: this variation would negate the use of chain rode, because of friction at the shackle.

Just a few thoughts.

Fair winds,
Carter

[Neil Gordon]

Another idea: instead of a mid-channel anchor, the rode could simply be led all the way across the channel to a corresponding point on the other side.

This is sheer genius!!! A line from my finger to the corresponding finger on the other side of the fairway. Sufficient slack to hug the bottom at the highest tide. I could hang by the bow from either end or from the middle. It wouldn't take much in the way of weights to insure the line stayed on the bottom when need be.

I've got a Triton just about across from me that doesn't steer in reverse, either. I'll talk to him in the spring.

[Matt Cawthorne]

Carter's idea is a good one, but I would caution if the water is thin in your marina. The water in the fairway behind my boat gets thin enough with a strong north wind that boats are sometimes dragging their keel through the mud. Providing a hazard that catches their keel would not win you any friends. Also, that line is going to grow foul with marine growth. It could get mighty messy.

The trolling motor on the bow is not a bad idea. You don't need enough force to hold the boat in place, just enough to spin the bow around while the boat is drifting downwind. In that case, 50 lb of thrust is probably adequate for very strong winds.

You could combine the two......Use the trolling motor on your dinghy to set an anchor upwind before leaving the slip. You can pick your anchor up on the way past. The riding sail might just be easier.