Sailing a Ketch
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jim F
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:12
- Location: 1978 CD 30 K "Heron"
Potts Harbor Me.
CDSOA # 562
Sailing a Ketch
I have a CD30K and I don't feel that I am getting the best out of her. Granted that my sailing experience is limited at best. I have not found much written on sailing a Ketch or Yawl. I can get her from point A to B most of the time. But I would like to get some more information on what I should be able to do with the extra equipment and how it should relate to the other parts of rigging. I would like to have a little more confidence that I am doing the right things when I do them. Thanks in advance I have learned so much from the postings on this board I thank you all for helping everybody who has had questions please keep it up. Winter can't last forever(just seems like it will)
A few comments on sailing a ketch. First they aren’t the fastest of rigs, or the most close winded. That said, I’ve put over 15,000 miles on Isa Lei, a CT35 ketch in the past four years and am totally happy with the rig. She is beamier and heavier than the CD30. The rig has several advantages; the biggest is that it reduces sail area to where a couple can handle it much easier. It also gives you more bridge clearance than a sloop or cutter of the same length. Being able to drop the main and sail jib and jigger in heavy weather is nice. When my friends are tap dancing on the coach roof reefing, I just drop the main and press on.
The rig takes some getting used to; there are a lot of combinations. Too many people treat it as a sloop with a afterthought. The principle sails are the foretriangle and mizzen. Think of the main as overdrive. For close hauled sailing try balancing the boat between the fore triangle and the mizzen, with the main slightly luffing. Then bring the main in until it goes to sleep. At his point you should have minimum weather helm and good speed. The main may have a slight bubble along the mast when hard on the wind – don’t worry about it. As you ease off the wind follow this same procedure until on a close reach, then trim by the tell tales. For all of this you want the tell tales on the luff of the sail streaming straight out. On a real broad reach I usually rig preventers on both the main and mizzen, gibing is exciting enough with only one boom. As a rule I avoid running dead downwind. But when I do I go wing and wing (main and mizzen), I sheet the jib and staysail in flat, or drop them. The headsails are blanketed by the main and mizzen.
Bottom line, a nice cruising rig that is easily handled by a small crew. If you are going to race, you may want to add a mizzen staysail and a spinnaker. I don’t race so I haven’t gone that far, although I’m considering a cruising chute for downwind where I would like some assist without putting up the main or mizzen. Here I’m thinking running the ICW or other motor sailing situation.
A few other comments and uses. If you are lifting the dinghy aboard, use both the main and mizzen halyards to lift it. They make a good cargo hoist and keep the load centered. If the mizzen boom is high enough, the mast makes a good attachment for a bimini, if not it makes biminis difficult. The mizzen gets in the way for rigging an awning, but is a wonderful place for radar and TV antennas.
The rig takes some getting used to; there are a lot of combinations. Too many people treat it as a sloop with a afterthought. The principle sails are the foretriangle and mizzen. Think of the main as overdrive. For close hauled sailing try balancing the boat between the fore triangle and the mizzen, with the main slightly luffing. Then bring the main in until it goes to sleep. At his point you should have minimum weather helm and good speed. The main may have a slight bubble along the mast when hard on the wind – don’t worry about it. As you ease off the wind follow this same procedure until on a close reach, then trim by the tell tales. For all of this you want the tell tales on the luff of the sail streaming straight out. On a real broad reach I usually rig preventers on both the main and mizzen, gibing is exciting enough with only one boom. As a rule I avoid running dead downwind. But when I do I go wing and wing (main and mizzen), I sheet the jib and staysail in flat, or drop them. The headsails are blanketed by the main and mizzen.
Bottom line, a nice cruising rig that is easily handled by a small crew. If you are going to race, you may want to add a mizzen staysail and a spinnaker. I don’t race so I haven’t gone that far, although I’m considering a cruising chute for downwind where I would like some assist without putting up the main or mizzen. Here I’m thinking running the ICW or other motor sailing situation.
A few other comments and uses. If you are lifting the dinghy aboard, use both the main and mizzen halyards to lift it. They make a good cargo hoist and keep the load centered. If the mizzen boom is high enough, the mast makes a good attachment for a bimini, if not it makes biminis difficult. The mizzen gets in the way for rigging an awning, but is a wonderful place for radar and TV antennas.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
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Jim F
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:12
- Location: 1978 CD 30 K "Heron"
Potts Harbor Me.
CDSOA # 562
Thanks Jim I do love my ketch I didn't get her for speed and I have no intention of anything like formal racing. But the information is helpfull do you know of any books that would have any information on sailing this type of boat. On the top of the Mizzen mast I found 2 sheaves for 2 lines but only one sail track in the mast any ideas. Thanks again Jim f.
Two sheaves
The second one is to rig for a mizzen staysail, probably. What you might want to do is run a 3/8th through it and have it available as a spare halyard and cargo hoist. Just run the ends down to the chainplates and secure.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
Split Rigs
Based on my experience (23 years) with my Luger Voyager 30 (ketch rigged), concur 100% with Jim D's comments. A couple of additional observations: I found that, on the wind, my main would backwind the mizzen under certain conditions, sort of like the effect on the main of oversheeting a lapping genoa (probably the 'bubble' in the main Jim refers to). This may be unique to my boat. I treat the main/mizzen 'slot' somewhat the same as the slot between the jib and main.
While I've found that a 30' boat is a bit small for a split rig, it does add versatility and has the advantages Jim cites for various sail combos under varying weather conditions, the main/mizzen combination serving as a good 'reference rig' for working up and down the weather scale. I crewed on a yawl when I was much younger and remember using the mizzen - much smaller on yawls - mainly to trim the boat and in really heavy weather with a storm jib.
I've thought for years that if I ever got another boat in the 30-35' range, I'd avoid split rigs - especially ketches - primarily because of the clutter of the mizzen stuck in the cockpit. Now, lo and behold, I got on this board because I'm seriously looking at a CD30 ketch!
A couple of possible reference books: 'Sail Power' by Wallace Ross and 'The Ocean Sailing Yacht' by Don Street. I'm sure they're both out of print, but may be findable via the internet.
Fair winds -
Joe C.
While I've found that a 30' boat is a bit small for a split rig, it does add versatility and has the advantages Jim cites for various sail combos under varying weather conditions, the main/mizzen combination serving as a good 'reference rig' for working up and down the weather scale. I crewed on a yawl when I was much younger and remember using the mizzen - much smaller on yawls - mainly to trim the boat and in really heavy weather with a storm jib.
I've thought for years that if I ever got another boat in the 30-35' range, I'd avoid split rigs - especially ketches - primarily because of the clutter of the mizzen stuck in the cockpit. Now, lo and behold, I got on this board because I'm seriously looking at a CD30 ketch!
A couple of possible reference books: 'Sail Power' by Wallace Ross and 'The Ocean Sailing Yacht' by Don Street. I'm sure they're both out of print, but may be findable via the internet.
Fair winds -
Joe C.
Comment
Don Street really doesn't say much about the ketch rig and I really haven't found much that I would call an "operator's manual". Even Google doesn't turn up much. There isn't much out there on yawls either. Of course for most use the yawl can be sailed like a sloop.
The bubble in the main I referred to is along the mast and really isn't hurting much. My experience has been, if the man is backwinding the mizzen, you may have the main in a bit to far. Just as an experiment, try letting the main luff lightly as you settle her down "jib and jigger", then bring the main in enough to settle it down with good luff tell tale flow.
The bubble in the main I referred to is along the mast and really isn't hurting much. My experience has been, if the man is backwinding the mizzen, you may have the main in a bit to far. Just as an experiment, try letting the main luff lightly as you settle her down "jib and jigger", then bring the main in enough to settle it down with good luff tell tale flow.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
reply
Again agree with all that. I just got back to the house where the books I mentioned are stored (I'm in the midst of a 1200 mile move) and looked through them - for the first time in years. You're right, Street (in OSY) doesn't speak to ketches except to point out all their disadvantages; he obviously isn't a fan of the rig. Wally Ross, in his book, discusses mizzen mast sail options and selection but doesn't get into split rig sail trim at all - despite a very detailed analysis of sloop/cutter trimming.
Joe C.
Joe C.