1983 Cape Dory 25D (Hull #127)

[Sea Hunt]

I am beginning to think about flying to Stockton, Mo. to look at a 1983 Cape Dory 25D (Hull #127) as soon as the weather gets a little warmer. Because this will be an expensive trip (air fare, motel, rental car), I thought I would first check with “the Board” and see if anyone has any information or history about this CD 25D.

It is my understanding this CD 25D originally came from the Chesapeake Bay area and was transported to Stockton Lake, Mo. 3-4 years ago.

Any and all information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

P.S. I continue to believe that a CD 25D is probably a little too much sailboat for me with my limited, but growing, knowledge and experience. However, there have been very few "in good condition" CD Ty Weekenders or CD 22s on the market over the past year. It looks like I either "man up" and reconsider CD 25Ds, or possibly remain boatless for many more months to come.

[Steve Kuhar]

Sea Hunt,

I do not know anything about that particular hull number, but I would like to help ease some of your concerns about handling a 25D. In my opinion, being the original owner of hull # 5, and having sailed it for the last 25 years, you can not find a better "starter boat". Because the boat is more stable it will be easier to go forward to work a jib or set an anchor. It is also easier to work at the mast than it is on a smaller boat. While the boat is initially a little tender it gets very stable as it starts to heel, you have to work at it to get the rail under at anything short of a half gale. The sails on a 25D are not too large for one person to handle easily and you will probably never use your winch handle. The boat is not so heavy that it cannot be pushed off pilings and maneuvered by hand at dockside. If you have not done so I recommend that you read John Vigors' review of the 25 and 25D in "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere". In short I do not think you can find a boat that will make you happier than a CD25D.

Steve Kuhar

[Neil Gordon]

LIQUIDITY was my first boat and 10 years ago, I was about where you are in terms of knowledge and experience. If you are reasonably organized, reasonably prudent and can read, you won't have any trouble learning to sail and sailing safely on a 25D.

It's a different class of boat and different class of sailing altogether from the smaller CD's. Don't pass because you think you're biting off too much. You're not!

[barfwinkle]

I would second Neil and Steve's comments. While Rhapsody was not my first boat (a Catalina 27 was) it is not at all difficult to sail.

And on top of that, you will love the room and her stability underway. Steve's comments concerning pushing her off pilings etc, is also right on the mark.

Anyway, go for the gusto and enjoy the experience, just be prudent.

Good Luck

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Steve, Neil and Barfwinkle:

Thanks very much for the words of encouragement. I should have stated that one of my concerns with a CD 25D (I have also looked at 2-3 CD 27s!!) is that I will be single handing her. Although "the Admiral" likes being out on the water, her idea of sailing is a bikini, a margarita, and a good book. I am NOT complaining. However, this is the concern - single handing a CD 25D. Neil, my knowledge and experience are very limited. In my mind, there is less chance for things to go wrong in a Ty Weekender or CD 22. And if things do go wrong, it is easier to correct. And if I cannot correct, the damage done by (or to) a CD Ty or CD 22 will be less than that done by (or to) a CD 25D.

Steve, I did read Mr. Vigor's book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere". I think that may be where I first learned about Cape Dorys. It's an excellent book. There was also an article in Practical Sailor several years ago about the CD 25D.

Unless someone on "the Board" has negative information about this particular CD 25D (Hull #127, I will probably make plans to inspect her. For the next 10-12 days, the temperature in Stockton, Mo. is forecast to be 18-20 low and 34-38 high. Way too cold for this Miami boy.

[Neil Gordon]

I should have stated that one of my concerns with a CD 25D (I have also looked at 2-3 CD 27s!!) is that I will be single handing her...

In my mind, there is less chance for things to go wrong in a Ty Weekender or CD 22. And if things do go wrong, it is easier to correct. And if I cannot correct, the damage done by (or to) a CD Ty or CD 22 will be less than that done by (or to) a CD 25D.

What can go wrong most often is that you mis-judge the weather and end up in conditions at the ragged edge of your skill and experience. If that happened to me, I'd prefer to be in the CD 25D (although the Ty, etc., are pretty tough boats for their size!).

Don't worry about single handing the 25D. With most of the "crew" most of us have with us, we're single handing anyway. It just takes a bit more planning.

The 25D sounds like it's just a little beyond your comfort zone right now. Trust me, you'll get there. Find a friend or hire an instructor for a bit until you get more comfy, which will come to you very quickly.

[chase]

Robert,

I think you'll find the 25D great for your needs after reading some of your posts. I've been sailing for just a few years and my 30 footer is easily managed with proper care and planning. When I first bought mine it felt very big and intimidating. These boats are just so forgiving and I suspect that with the 25 you'll have no problem sail handling, weighing anchor in moderate conditions, etc. If you are prudent about the days you go out, you will build confidence, to the point that you can't remember not feeling right at home and in control of your little vessel.

Also, you’ll have enough room to make your wife comfortable, with room for a 12 v blender for Margaritas, and a decent head. I wonder if she'd have as much fun in a weekender size boat. I don't know, I've never been on one. You’ll also have your own “doghouse”, a remote clubhouse to hang out in and of course plenty of projects…

Life is so short....I'd go look at it. The price seems reasonable and you will pay less than asking. If I can do it (financially, logistically, etc.) then I know you can. Just have a look and start the ball rolling. Keep us posted.

Good Luck!

Chase

[Steve Laume]

The biggest danger is that you might find you want a bigger boat. Although the 25D is incredibly roomy for it's size. I think the biggest problem for me in increasing boat size is the costs involved with bigger boats. After sailing dinghies, I started with a Typhoon because it was very affordable and easy to deal with. I figured I skipped one jump by going to the CD-30. If anything it is easier to handle, even single handed than the Typhoon was. The bigger boat affords a very stable platform and with an auto pilot sail handling is pretty simple. The systems get much more complicated going from a day sailor or weekender to a fully equipped cruising boat. It gets much easier to dump in larger bundles of money too. It depends a great deal on what you want to do with the boat. If you are planning on day sailing, the Typhoon is a great boat.
We soon found we wanted to be overnighting and going places. For that the Typhoon did not work for us. I would not worry about being able to handle the boat while you are on it. It is more a matter of how you will use it and the amount of money and time you have to maintain it. I think that is the biggest difference once you get to the 25D and beyond, Steve L.

[barfwinkle]

it is not a problem once you have gain a modicum of experience. Take an ASA or some other organizations sailing course for keel boats. Take an experience sailor for a ride or ride with an experience sailor.

In your neck of the woods there should be plenty of CD owners willing to help out. And I agree that the Admiral will be much happier in a bigger boat. That said, be prepared for the increase in cost and take into consideration your planned use of the boat.

Good Luck

[Sea Hunt]

Steve:

I (we) will start out doing only day sailing (regardless of the CD we buy). The plan is to expand to weekend trips to some of the Keys in South Biscayne Bay and beyond. Initially, we had thought of a Ty Weekender or CD 22 for 1-2 years and then upsizing to a CD 25D or CD 27 once we gained experience and confidence. Because of so few quality Tys or CD 22s, we are reluctantly considering "starting" with a CD 25D.

Chase:

While I am grateful for your advise, I have had to delete your message from my computer. Unfortunately, you used the "w" word in your post. We do not use that word in the house (or anywhere else).

I am still hoping to hear from anyone who knows anything about this particular 1983 CD 25D (hull #127). Eventually, it is going to get a little warmer in Missouri and I will be going there. I hope to have as much information and history as possible about this particular CD 25D. I looked on the CD registry on this site. Perhaps I missed it (very likely), but I did not see it registered. I know registry is voluntary and possibly sporadic but that was my first "go to" place.

Thanks for the continuing support and encouragement.

[chase]

Which wone? Wonder, wife or weighing?

woefully,

chase

[Dick Barthel]

LIQUIDITY was my first boat and 10 years ago, I was about where you are in terms of knowledge and experience. If you are reasonably organized, reasonably prudent and can read, you won't have any trouble learning to sail and sailing safely on a 25D.

I have a 25D and I completely agree with Steve an Neil.

[Dick Barthel]

Sea Hunt,

Previous to 2002 when I bought Dream Weaver, I had only sailed a Paceship 17 and a Dyer sailing dink.

All comments I've read are right on. One further thing I would suggest is that when you start out, partially furl the jib if you have furling or go with a working jib if you don't. And don't be afraid to put a reef in the main. There is no shame in taking it easy until you get comfortable. With a working jib and a reef in the main, you won't have to worry about anything with a wind less than 15 kts. By putting the reef in at your mooring, you won't have to worry if the wind kicks up while you're out there. After awhile, your boat is going to win you over. Remember, just in case you don't beleive John V, somebody took a 25D from San Diego to Hawaii last year!

Early on teach yourself how to "hove-to" so you can take breaks, collect yourself, etc. It is really very simple - check the archives.

On down the line consider self tailing winches if you're going to do a lot of single handing. Also the ST2000 is a nice autopilot to add to a 25D for another was to make single handing easier. Another great addition would be roller furling if you don't have it.

One other caution. When you first begin and arn't use to your boat, watch the mainsheet wrapping the tiller...it's excessively long on the 25d so keep the excess neat. When things get crazy the last thing you need is your tiller stuck in place.

Good luck and keep us posted on your adventure.

Dick

[Sea Hunt]

Does anyone know of a reputable marine surveyor in the Stockton, Missouri area or in nearby cities? I have accessed SAMS and NAMS, etc. and have found the names of a few in St. Louis and elsewhere in the area but have no knowledge of their abilities, reputations, etc. If you have had experience with a surveyor in that area or know of one you would recommend, I would welcome the information. Thanks.

Given the fact that there are so few CD 25Ds (only about 189 according to the "manufacturing history" posted elsewhere on this Board) and so many readers of this Board, I am surprised no one knows anything about this particular CD 25D (hull #127).


Neil:

I have read your posts for quite some time and have great respect for your thoughtful comments on all things Cape Dory. If I understand your earlier comments correctly, it is your view that in order for me to learn to safely sail a CD 25D I will need to be "organized, . . . prudent and [literate]".

Very well. I will shortly move on to "Plan B". A plastic boat and a rubber duck in the bathtub.

[Neil Gordon]

Very well. I will shortly move on to "Plan B". A plastic boat and a rubber duck in the bathtub.

Learn as much as you can from the duck, then go back to Plan A.

(By the way, if memory serves me correctly, a container filled with rubber duckies was lost at sea some years ago. Scientists learned lots about ocean currents by seeing where the ducks favorite places to go were.)