full keel are slow to weather?

rtbates · Post by **rtbates** » Dec 18th, '06, 12:10

Apparently not all that slow. Sunday I was out sailing Seraph and seeing as it was blowing a good 20, and I was single handing, I ran with just the 130 headsail. As I was approaching the eastern shore close hauled on starboard tack a Benetua 32.5 and a Hunter 27.5 were side by side moving off the shore on a collision course with me. As they got closer and just about the time I was going to give up right a way I hear the Bene crew say to the Hunter crew pointing my way, "there's the guy you need to worry about". The Hunter crew looks up see me and falls off below me, the Bene crew continue as if they can pass well in front, they can't and also fall behind. All three boats are headed up the lake dead into the wind. The next time we cross I'm on port tack and pass well in front of both. After the next crossing I'm further ahead and the Bene falls off and goes back downwind. The Hunter continues up wind and after 6 crossings I'm getting further and further ahead. I ask myself," how can this be?" Did I mention that both boats were carrying BOTH sails. The best I can figure they were over canvassed and when a big gust would hit they would tend to round up while Seraph would burying the lee rail and point like the dickens. I was pointing consistantly higher than either of them with just a head sail. When the wind would go down I noticed they would gain ground, but in the higher winds when I had the rail buried I could out point them by a very healthy margin. I don't like sailboat 'racing', per se, seeing as it ruins the casual nature that I like, but I must admit that I was rather pleased with it all.

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Dec 18th, '06, 12:53

And we look better doing it, too.

carldoc · Post by **carldoc** » Dec 18th, '06, 13:42

there is a thing called hull speed. They may not have heard of it. I sail my CD25 often with just a 150 out.

rtbates · Post by **rtbates** » Dec 18th, '06, 16:09

Neil Gordon wrote:And we look better doing it, too.

Ain't it the truth.
At this time of year(eventually it'll get cold) I carry a full dodger and for the winter sun(it was 80 and sunny Sunday) I had a full tail piece with sides rigged. All in matching burgundy sunbrella. Seraph, like all CDs, is quite a looker I must say! Maybe it was all that canvas aft of the mast that allowed her to point so well!

Marc Theriault · Post by **Marc Theriault** » Dec 18th, '06, 16:21

Maybe it was all that canvas aft of the mast that allowed her to point so well!

Hum!! Give you somes credits maybe your sailing hability are better then them

Marc

Carter Brey · Post by **Carter Brey** » Dec 18th, '06, 17:43

I used to headreach now and then on bigger fin-keeled boats in my CD25. I always chalked it up to more obsessive attention to sail trim. All the little things you as a careful sailor make a point of watching-- leech flutter, backwinding, traveler position, &c-- can add up to confound the laggards. Of course it annoys guests when you leave off in the middle of a sentence to peer up at the Windex or crank in the lee headsail sheet half a turn, but what do they know?

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Dec 18th, '06, 20:06

I see that Carl often sails his CD25 with just the 150 jenny. About 25 years ago I discovered that my (then new) CD25 would point and balance better in medium to heavy air with just the 150. I was often told that I was damaging the boat. I still don't believe that. I have great memories of those times.

I'll be so happy when I can launch my CD36!

s.v. LaVida · Post by **s.v. LaVida** » Dec 18th, '06, 21:31

I don't like racing my CD33 either, but when a vessel comes abeam we can't resist trimming sails and squeezing every ounce of drive out of LaVida. Guess its in my blood or perhaps "LaVida" just does not want to be passed and she is telling me, via some subliminal message, to trim it out or shake it out?

Sounds silly, but what the heck, we all know our Cape's have a soul, eh?

Rit

tartansailor · Post by **tartansailor** » Dec 18th, '06, 22:05

Nice going Randy

Carter & Rit said it all.

Its like laying down a gauntlet. See another sailboat approach and we get that old adrenaline rush. Smoke them is a term that comes to mind. Our boats really come alive when the wind is piping over 12 knots, and above 18 knots we are really rocking and rolling while the fin guys are getting white knuckles.

Dick

Cedat Fortuna Peritas

bill2 · Post by **bill2** » Dec 18th, '06, 23:46

perchance they didn't want to spill their cocktails and you didn't want to spill any useful wind ? ? ?

SeaBelle · Post by **SeaBelle** » Dec 19th, '06, 07:47

I have never raced and have no interest in it. I'm out there peacefully, one with nature. Yet as they say 'when two sailboats meet, there's a race'. It's a matter of pride in our boat and ourselves and we are better for it.

Didereaux · Post by **Didereaux** » Dec 19th, '06, 07:49

Heh, I call the game of sneaking up and passing chlorox bottles 'Hunting Hunters'...you have to be vewwy, vewwy quiet. I really should have felt bad, but jeez its a hoot watchin the frustration on their faces when they try to catch you. As Carter pointed out, it's all in the details.

One has to get ones entertainment these days however you can.<grin>

Top o' the Season to all,

Al Levesque · Post by **Al Levesque** » Dec 19th, '06, 08:04

I think you got it right when you suggested they were over canvassed. When the wind is strong enough to cause heeling to the rail the sail's center of effort is well outboard and tends to cause the boat to round up. However, since the jib is forward of the mast the tendency to round up is offset and helps to balance the boat. Watch the stern to see the turbulence from the rudder when there is too much weather helm and you will see what slows them down.

rtbates · Post by **rtbates** » Dec 19th, '06, 10:21

I just love sailing Seraph with the rail buried and from the looks I was getting from the other two boats I feel they were more than a tad surprised by how well she sails in that attitude. Especially considering the fact that as soon as their rail would get anywhere near the water they would slow way down and fight the tendency to round up. I always been under the impression that having a narrow hull contributes to this fact. Rather than rolling up on a beamy side and lifting out of the water she rolls that lee side under water and points. While it does contribute to what some feel is initial tenderness, the end results appears to be a very stiff hull once you get her over. The best news is my 5 yo grandson loves sailing with the rail awash. He'll always complain when the when goes light and we straighten up. His favorite trick is to hang from the weather coaming with both feet in the air. Am I a luck granddad or what?

Brian A. · Post by **Brian A.** » Dec 19th, '06, 12:22

This is Simpatico going to weather in a 18-20 kt. breeze with some fairly good chop on Great Peconic Bay, NY. If I wasn't about to round a windward mark, I would have considered more halyard tension or reefing. We were flying the #2 headsail (135) and simply dumped the main in the heavier gusts.

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The Cape Dory Board

full keel are slow to weather?

full keel are slow to weather?

neil

Re: neil

Randy, give yourself some credit.

sailing the CD25

Racing? A CD? Naw you wouldn't

Its In Our Genes

windy

ad hoc 'racing'

it's called....

Over canvassed

rail awash

Simpatico going to weather, full sails