Spartan mid-rail cleat/chock

Carter Brey · Post by **Carter Brey** » Dec 1st, '06, 13:40

Spartan sells a midship cleat which is designed to be mortised into a wooden toerail. It's a nifty piece of hardware that combines a cleat with two chocks. Christmas is coming, and little rotating stars are replacing my pupils whenever I look at that particular catalog page online.

Does anyone here have a photo of this item actually installed on his or her boat? I'd really like to see it in situ, as they used to say around the Roman Navy Yard in Ostia circa 200 A.D.

Many thanks,
Carter

David van den Burgh · Post by **David van den Burgh** » Dec 1st, '06, 14:20

Carter,

Here you go. I installed these bad boys two seasons ago - and they have made all the difference. Please excuse the poor angle in the second photo; I was rushing to finish projects before launch.

<img width="540" src="http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_midshipcleatsbig.jpg">

<img width="540" src="http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_mids ... ledbig.jpg">

Warren Kaplan · Post by **Warren Kaplan** » Dec 1st, '06, 16:21

Carter,

Bill Goldsmith put them in Second Chance a CD27 when he owned it. Now owned by Mark Yashinsky. He gave a whole description of the installation process, warts and all, at the time.
You can probably find it in the archives or ask Bill or Mark.

tartansailor · Post by **tartansailor** » Dec 1st, '06, 22:39

Yes I can see how very useful they would be, like tying up a dinghy, or fastening the line of a large bumper, which we all need at dock side. Cool.
Mortising the toe rails will be a challenge. I wonder if Spartan supplies a cut-out template?
BTW, in-situ is still commonly used in chemistry circles, for example silver halide crystals in-situ in a gelatin emulsion, etc.
OR! a cold and frosty in Gordon's mitt.

Dick

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Dec 1st, '06, 23:30

If the mid-rail chock is used as a cleat and not just a chock, I assume it could have a significant sideways load applied to it (the boat being pushed away from the dock by current, waves or wind, the dinghy being pulled away from the boat by current, etc.). I checked the Spartan online catalog and it does not show any backing plate for this cleat, only 5 screws (1/4" FHMS). I assume FHMS is short for flathead machine screw. That does not seem like much support for a cleat that could take a significant load.

Is there a backing plate for this mid-rail cleat

If so, where does it go

Looking at the picture, the mid-rail chock seems to just screw into the cutout rail.

I apologize for the dumb question. I'm on a steep learning curve.

Thanks,

David van den Burgh · Post by **David van den Burgh** » Dec 2nd, '06, 00:06

Sea Hunt wrote:Is there a backing plate for this mid-rail cleat?

Unfortunately, no - at least not from Spartan. And given the cleat's location, there isn't much possibility of even getting a backing plate to fit the space. The machine screws pass through the hull-to-deck joint and end up so close to the inside of the hull that even a washer is almost too big. Perhaps there are others who've managed to fit a backing plate in there, but during my installation I didn't see any way.
I like the idea of a backing plate, but the cleats have withstood some signficant loads without problem. And like any cleat, backed or not, it is best to avoid lateral loads - hence bow and stern chocks. Midship cleats are generally used for securing spring lines, which impose more fore and aft force than lateral. I wouldn't rely on the midship cleat as my only breast line. It's a better idea to use bow and stern cleats (and chocks) for that, as far as I'm concerned.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Dec 2nd, '06, 00:27

Seahunt,

Don't apologize. Whether you realize it or not, you brought to surface a very good point.

David brought up some good points. (He types faster than I do)

I have always understood that FHMS stands for flat head machine screw, as does RHMS signify round head machine screw.

I don't know if Spartan made a typo or what's going on. I do think that a machine screw requires a threaded nut, w/wo washers. Looking at the picture, I would venture a guess that most of them are secured with wood screws. The style shown looks like it is set into the toe rail, which is situated directly above the hull line. I don't see how it is possible to use machine screws, much less acceessibility for the use of a backing plate. It's differnt than how a stanchion is secured, inboard a bit. I suupose that there is some room for a machine screw or two, but not very much room.

As for side load strength, I think that the setup, as shown, is adequate for most sundry uses. It's not like it would be used for anchoring or mooring purposes.

Every boat that I owned, especially work boats, had a midship bitt or cleat and chock(s). They are very useful for other things beside hanging things on them.

On our schooner, coming in after practice runs, some of the guys had trouble when initially trying to tie up both the bow and stern. This was especially true when an unfavorable wind would blow the hull away from the tieup points.

I showed them something, I can't call it a trick, we've used the method since Hector was a puppy. This method will also work for those that say that it's difficult to back their CDs into the slip without the bow falling off to a cross wind.

Before we would take the schooner out for a sail, we'd secure a stout mooring line to a cleat or bollard and support the other end up in the air, off the dock. Instead of fighting to tie off both bow and stern lines before the cross wind would wreak havoc, we would steer the ship close beside the dock.

As we approached the preset mooring line, a deckhand would snatch the line with a boathook and, leaving a little slack, secure the line to the midship cleat. As the ship inched forward, the line would become taut at an angle and both the bow and stern would be drawn together toward the dock If the bow fender hit first, then the stern would continue inward. Vice versa for the stern fender.

FWIW,
O J

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Dec 2nd, '06, 07:30

If all you want to use it for is tying off fenders or the dink I would not bother with the installation of a midship cleat. The stanchion bases would be perfectly adequate for those purposes. I usually use an aft spring line much like OJ describes when coming into a dock. I worked on a 60 FT power yacht after high school and my most critical job was lassoing a piling for the spring line. I got very good at it after a while. I felt more like a calf roper than a deck hand. Our drill was to ease into a slip or dock. I would lasso a piling and then take a wrap on the midship cleat. As the boat continued to travel forward I would gradually snub up the line. Once we were stopped the Captain could direct me to let out more line if he wanted to move forward or just cleat it off. He would then apply right rudder and some power. That would bring the boat in snug against the side and all of the lines could be made fast. I use the cleat on my boat much the same way. My only complaint is that it is too small. The one I have looks a bit more rounded than the one in the picture and is barely big enough for one line. The other spring line is looped over the winch. The winch bases on my boat are solid teak blocks so there is little risk of over stressing the combing boards. The Spartan cleat is a very attractive unit that works for a cleat but makes a very fine chock that dosen't snag lines or stub toes, Steve.

Duncan Maio · Post by **Duncan Maio** » Dec 2nd, '06, 08:05

We have them on our CD27, and they are indeed quite useful. I had the yard install them as part of an insurance-funded repair many years ago, and they were installed without backing plates. I have since reinstalled one with a bronze backing plate made from 1" x 1/4" flat stock, and plan to do the other this winter.

They work quite well, but if you can find cleats that fit on the genoa track, those would do nicely as well - although not nearly as slick.

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Dec 2nd, '06, 08:53

Duncan Maio wrote:... if you can find cleats that fit on the genoa track, those would do nicely as well - although not nearly as slick.

I have a cleat on the stbd track. It is indeed less than slick and presents a trippig hazard if placed within the boarding gate area. On the other hand, it's easy to install and since it moves, it's easy to find the sweet spot that balances the spring line when you're using it as a warp. (You might try locating a sliding cleat before committing to sawing your toe rail!)

Carter Brey · Post by **Carter Brey** » Dec 2nd, '06, 09:35

Good morning.

David, many thanks for posting those photos. Looks great.

There are a number of reasons why I want these on my boat.

First, anyone who docks boats with any regularity knows that a midship cleat makes life incomparably easier for a singlehander. A breast line brings the boat beam-on to the dock very smartly, giving me time to make bow and stern lines fast. Spring lines are good, of course, and this item would make it a little easier to run those, but a breast line is what I want above all.

Second, there is room beneath my toerails for through-bolting. The toerails themselves are through-bolted on an internal flange every six inches. The nuts are accessible. A through-bolted midship cleat would become part of the hull-deck joint.

Third, a sliding cleat on the outboard genoa track presents not only a tripping hazard (as Neil sez) but also presents a snagging hazard for the genoa sheet. I've seen this happen. It also slightly limits your ability to move the sheet lead all the way forward.

Fourth, there is some dry rot damage to the teak of the port toerail exactly at the maximum beam point. It will be necessary to remove those few inches of teak anyway at some point, so why not do it to make room for a nice piece of hardware?

Thanks again,
Carter

bhartley · Post by **bhartley** » Dec 2nd, '06, 09:53

When replacing the genoa tracks on Miranda's spanky new toe rails, I too was concerned about having room for nuts and washers.

The toe rails are 1" wide and are flush with the edge of the deck. I piloted a small hole in the center of the first hole and angled it in ever so slightly (more by feel than by a specific measurement). After confirming the exit point I was able to gauge the workability of the angle. I piloted and drilled them one at a time attaching the nuts and washers loosely from below as I worked to make sure I didn't stray.

Of the ten bolts for the genoa track, only one was not able to fit a washer. I believe I used 1/4x20 bolts (flat head). They were tightened from above. When snugged in place, the heads of the bolts fit neatly in the recess of the track and you can not tell that they were drilled at a very slight angle.

The toe rails on the 25D are actually a little wider and with the access below along the edge of the liner, the same process would work. For those of us who live in slips, the midship cleat is a real bonus -- and from the picture, they look pretty spiffy too!

Bill Goldsmith · Post by **Bill Goldsmith** » Dec 2nd, '06, 13:44

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=5760

Above is the thread that Warren remembered. We used backing plates made from a sandwich of marine plywood and aluminum, with washers.

I notice that David's are not fully mortised into the rail. Depending on how tall the rail is (i.e. not shortened by too much sanding) the cleat should fit into the rail flush. I suppose that the cleats could be rounded off on the upper corners to avoid snags if they had to be installed proud.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Dec 4th, '06, 14:42

Neil,

You mention the word "warp". Is that the word that is used to draw the hull sideways when using a single line with a midship cleat or bitt? I never did learn what it is called. I just did it

Neil Gordon wrote:[1it's easy to find the sweet spot that balances the spring line when you're using it as a warp. (You might try locating a sliding cleat before committing to sawing your toe rail!)

When I try to describe the tactic, I use the following analogy. Hold a parallel rule with both parts even lengthwise, spread as wide as is possible. Hold the inside edge of one rule even with the top edge of a table etc.

Now slowly inch the other free end of the rule ahead. You will notice that the free section of the rule draws closer to the captive section at the table edge. This is perhaps a crude way to describe what happens when a single line on a midship cleat is used to approach a slip in a cross wind.

Neil, BTW, I'm most certain that you and many others are familiar with using this procedure. I went a bit farther describing this tactic for the benefit of other readers who may not be familiar with it.

Again, is this what you call warping? If not, do you or any other reader know what it's name is? Also, if not, then what does the word warp(ing) mean, nautically speaking?

Best regards,
O J

John Vigor · Post by **John Vigor** » Dec 4th, '06, 15:35

OJ, warping is simply the act of moving a vessel by means of warps.
You can warp your boat from one side of the slip to the other. You can take a long line from a vessel alongside a wharf out to a buoy and warp her out to the buoy -- and so forth. You can even warp her a considerable distance by taking out alternate anchors in a dinghy and recovering the warps on deck.

Cheers,

John V.
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