One of my new responsibilities at "Offshore" magazine involves editing our "Tried & True" used-boat reviews. The reviews will also run in our sister publication, "Chesapeake Bay Magazine." This new responsibility means that I get write some of the reviews myself.
In October, I took a test sail on a Cape Cod neighbor's beautiful, yard-maintained CD27. I've obviously got plenty of comments from him, but I was wondering if some of you longtime CD27 owners on this board could give me some comments on your experiences with the boat.
Comments could include:
--Overall impression. Why you chose this boat.
--Weaknesses in the boat, places that buyers should be sure to have checked out by their surveyors.
--Improvements that you've made.
Please be advised that I may want to quote from you for the article, so responding to this query will have to carry an implicit consent to be published.
Also, please be aware that the review probably won't be published until well into next year. The current editor of our little magazine (our previous editor now edits "Practical Sailor" and "Powerboat Report") believes that our readers aren't really interested in sailboats. As a result, I'm only supposed to publish three used-sailboat reviews a year.
Thanks in advance for your help.
--Joe
P.S. feel free to send me a PM if you feel more comfortable doing that.
Soliciting help from CD27 owners
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 11:22
- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
Soliciting help from CD27 owners
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
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Clay Stalker
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 12:07
- Location: 17' Town Class Sloop
Great!!
Joe:
Glad to hear all of this! You will be great, and maybe wake your otherwise good magazine up to the fact that they would pick up more subscribers if they devoted a bit more to sail...that said, you have a wealth of CD27 owners to pick from, and as a previous owner, I would be happy to share my opinions...what a surprise, huh??
Clay Stalker
Glad to hear all of this! You will be great, and maybe wake your otherwise good magazine up to the fact that they would pick up more subscribers if they devoted a bit more to sail...that said, you have a wealth of CD27 owners to pick from, and as a previous owner, I would be happy to share my opinions...what a surprise, huh??
Clay Stalker
Clay Stalker
Westmoreland, NH and Spofford Lake, NH
Westmoreland, NH and Spofford Lake, NH
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
Great Boat
I have a 1980 CD27. I have it going on 6 years now.
To answer some of your questions.
Its the perfect size for a couple and especially for a sailor who single hands a lot because its not too much boat to handle alone.
She is rugged (like most CDs) and doesn't mind going out in tough weather. She can take it. She sails at a good clip once the wind rises above about 8 knots
Weak spots. Backing up is a crap shoot but that's comes with all Cape Dories.
My boat has an 8 HP Yanmar (YSM8). Its very reliable and is just fine for ordinary motoring. But the boat can be underpowered going against a strong current and/or dead into a strong wind. Also, being a "one lunger" it tends to vibrate some and is loud.
Areas to watch for when looking at a used (uh...there are no new ones anymore) boat are soft spot on the foredeck and around the rudder post. The cockpit sole can sometimes be soft too.
This isn't a weakness....just a creature comfort...but I'd like to have hot water aboard and an on board shower. I've done fine without it but its nice to have.
Changes I made (excluding sails) were;
1. adding a Harken 3:1 traveller to replace the standard pin traveller.
2. Replacing the cockpit winches with Lewmar 16 self tailers. If I had it to do over again I'd go one size larger.
3. I brought the main halyard, and reefing lines back to the cockpit and added an Andersen 12 Self tailing winch to the cabin top. Now I can raise, douse and reef the main from the cockpit.
4. I put a Dwyer halyard organizing plate beneath the mast step to handle some of the blocks needed to run the lines back to the cockpit.
5.Replaced the headsail furler with a Furlex.
I'm sure there's more but most of it would just be cosmetic in nature and subject to the owner's whims.
To answer some of your questions.
Its the perfect size for a couple and especially for a sailor who single hands a lot because its not too much boat to handle alone.
She is rugged (like most CDs) and doesn't mind going out in tough weather. She can take it. She sails at a good clip once the wind rises above about 8 knots
Weak spots. Backing up is a crap shoot but that's comes with all Cape Dories.
My boat has an 8 HP Yanmar (YSM8). Its very reliable and is just fine for ordinary motoring. But the boat can be underpowered going against a strong current and/or dead into a strong wind. Also, being a "one lunger" it tends to vibrate some and is loud.
Areas to watch for when looking at a used (uh...there are no new ones anymore) boat are soft spot on the foredeck and around the rudder post. The cockpit sole can sometimes be soft too.
This isn't a weakness....just a creature comfort...but I'd like to have hot water aboard and an on board shower. I've done fine without it but its nice to have.
Changes I made (excluding sails) were;
1. adding a Harken 3:1 traveller to replace the standard pin traveller.
2. Replacing the cockpit winches with Lewmar 16 self tailers. If I had it to do over again I'd go one size larger.
3. I brought the main halyard, and reefing lines back to the cockpit and added an Andersen 12 Self tailing winch to the cabin top. Now I can raise, douse and reef the main from the cockpit.
4. I put a Dwyer halyard organizing plate beneath the mast step to handle some of the blocks needed to run the lines back to the cockpit.
5.Replaced the headsail furler with a Furlex.
I'm sure there's more but most of it would just be cosmetic in nature and subject to the owner's whims.
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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Duncan Maio
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 22:01
- Location: Cape Dory 27
Joe:
I have a 1977 CD27, which I have had going on ten years now. We mostly daysail her, but overnight once or twice a season and have gone for a week with a crew of two.
We found her to be fun and easy to sail, whether on a daysail in Boston Harbor or in Narragansett Bay, a weekend cruise to Block Island, or a floating dinner party for eight people. She has also been a great comfort in lumpy, fog-shrouded seas.
I concur 100% with Warren's comments - I haven't made all of his upgrades, but hope to in the future.
We found that the CD27 was a great first boat, and may well be our only boat - my wife learned to sail just before we bought her, and my kids (now 4 and 6) are learning to sail her - my oldest first took the helm when he was two. She can be singlehanded, and the cockpit is big enough for a crew of six to sail comfortably.
She is incredibly solid and comfortable to sail. We found the 140% a bit too much sail for a comfortable balance most of the time, and never used it - when the working jib gives out, we will probably look at a 120% or thereabouts.
All the stock systems are well thought out and, for a person of slightly below-average size, easy to access. The 8hp Yanmar, while a little loud and slightly underpowered, has about six moving parts and is as simple as an anvil - and as reliable as an anvil. I did have trouble starting it once, in February when it was 35 degrees, the batteries were nearly dead and the fuel was jellied. I had trouble, but she started (I forget why I tried, so please don't ask)!
In terms of weaknesses, the wiring is probably typically lame for production boats of the day, and the holding tank is far too small, but later models had a slightly larger tank under the port settee that I plan as an upgrade. The boat also lacks an anchor roller, and we are working on adding a Guthrie Roller this winter, with appropriate modifications to hang the 20# CQR on the bow.
In terms of things to look for when purchasing, I don't believe there are many specific issues for the 27, aside from the typical Cape Dory construction details - balsa core is often exposed around fastener holes and deck fills/hawsepipes, the aforementioned wiring, etc.
Some, like mine, had the optional slide-out head sink - I sometimes wonder if this is a desireable feature (it uses a foot pump and drains into the head, which is rather clumsy). There were a few variations on cabin tables, too; some removeable, some fold-away, some fixed with folding sides. A few were done with Edson wheel steering, I believe.
Structurally, like most CDs there are gelcoat cracks, particularly on the foredeck near the line where the deck meets the pilothouse, and, at least on my boat, I have had leaks where screws backed out and cracked the gelcoat along the hull-deck joint. It appears that when the joint was made up, screws were used to hold the parts in place while the bolts were put in, and the screw heads were gelcoated over along with the bolt heads. Some of the screws have backed out, and popped little crescents of gelcoat (or the gelcoat shrunk and didn't adhere to the screw head, whichever). These are a challenge to repair, because the screws are generally near, or partially under, the toe rail.
Some CD27 owners have reported problems with the chainplates rusting - they are mild steel in some models, including mine. I have some surface scaling, but nothing more than that.
I have a 1977 CD27, which I have had going on ten years now. We mostly daysail her, but overnight once or twice a season and have gone for a week with a crew of two.
We found her to be fun and easy to sail, whether on a daysail in Boston Harbor or in Narragansett Bay, a weekend cruise to Block Island, or a floating dinner party for eight people. She has also been a great comfort in lumpy, fog-shrouded seas.
I concur 100% with Warren's comments - I haven't made all of his upgrades, but hope to in the future.
We found that the CD27 was a great first boat, and may well be our only boat - my wife learned to sail just before we bought her, and my kids (now 4 and 6) are learning to sail her - my oldest first took the helm when he was two. She can be singlehanded, and the cockpit is big enough for a crew of six to sail comfortably.
She is incredibly solid and comfortable to sail. We found the 140% a bit too much sail for a comfortable balance most of the time, and never used it - when the working jib gives out, we will probably look at a 120% or thereabouts.
All the stock systems are well thought out and, for a person of slightly below-average size, easy to access. The 8hp Yanmar, while a little loud and slightly underpowered, has about six moving parts and is as simple as an anvil - and as reliable as an anvil. I did have trouble starting it once, in February when it was 35 degrees, the batteries were nearly dead and the fuel was jellied. I had trouble, but she started (I forget why I tried, so please don't ask)!
In terms of weaknesses, the wiring is probably typically lame for production boats of the day, and the holding tank is far too small, but later models had a slightly larger tank under the port settee that I plan as an upgrade. The boat also lacks an anchor roller, and we are working on adding a Guthrie Roller this winter, with appropriate modifications to hang the 20# CQR on the bow.
In terms of things to look for when purchasing, I don't believe there are many specific issues for the 27, aside from the typical Cape Dory construction details - balsa core is often exposed around fastener holes and deck fills/hawsepipes, the aforementioned wiring, etc.
Some, like mine, had the optional slide-out head sink - I sometimes wonder if this is a desireable feature (it uses a foot pump and drains into the head, which is rather clumsy). There were a few variations on cabin tables, too; some removeable, some fold-away, some fixed with folding sides. A few were done with Edson wheel steering, I believe.
Structurally, like most CDs there are gelcoat cracks, particularly on the foredeck near the line where the deck meets the pilothouse, and, at least on my boat, I have had leaks where screws backed out and cracked the gelcoat along the hull-deck joint. It appears that when the joint was made up, screws were used to hold the parts in place while the bolts were put in, and the screw heads were gelcoated over along with the bolt heads. Some of the screws have backed out, and popped little crescents of gelcoat (or the gelcoat shrunk and didn't adhere to the screw head, whichever). These are a challenge to repair, because the screws are generally near, or partially under, the toe rail.
Some CD27 owners have reported problems with the chainplates rusting - they are mild steel in some models, including mine. I have some surface scaling, but nothing more than that.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI
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Ray Garcia
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Apr 27th, '05, 22:08
- Location: 1981 CD27 #212 "Spirit" Huntington, NY
- Contact:
1981 CD27 Hull #212
We purchased and sailed her last summer on the south shore waters of Long Island, NY. At the end of last season we had her hauled to our house so we could give her a needed refit. Though 25 years old and in pretty good shape I wanted to give her a little more attention to make her look even better.
I previously sailed a 21' trailer sailor with a combination keel centerboard. Though the keel/centerboard is fast, the boat was uncomfortable and wet when the wind and water came up. By comparison our Cape Dory just plows along and does not pound like our previous boat with it's flat bow sections.
Items to pay attention to:
Full Keel with encapsulated ballast; for tracking, stability and safety in an accidental grounding.
Yanmar YSM 8hp - Still running after 25 years, bulletproof design
Interior woodwork - teak and fairly easy to maintain.
Interior layout - perfect for a couple and small family on an extended cruise
Very easy to sail, forgiving
The CDSOA and website
Quality bronze hardware (ports, thru hulls, cleats, stem head, winches)
The not so good:
Original pressurized alcohol stove - could pose a possible fire hazard to an inexperienced user. Though ours still works this is on my replacement list.
Gel coat - expect hairline cracks, cosmetic to serious in nature
Top mounted mast step - could seriously bend cabin top with over tensioned rig
Yanmar YSM 8hp - Could be overwhelmed with combination of current and wind.
End grain balsa core - never easy to repair a soggy or delaminated deck, stuff acts like a sponge
Icebox - could use more insulation. Ours has it only on the lid; side and bottom insulation non-existent
In my opinion a Cape Dory sailboat by comparison to today’s modern choices represents the golden age of when sailboats were still 100% handmade. No computer aided design, CNC milled parts, or robotic assistance was used to put together our CD27. Our CD27 was hand assembled with pride and quality as evidence to the condition she is in after 25 years. If Cape Dory 27's were still being made today, with today's labor market and materials cost, the purchase price would more than turn away potential buyers.
Ray Garcia
We purchased and sailed her last summer on the south shore waters of Long Island, NY. At the end of last season we had her hauled to our house so we could give her a needed refit. Though 25 years old and in pretty good shape I wanted to give her a little more attention to make her look even better.
I previously sailed a 21' trailer sailor with a combination keel centerboard. Though the keel/centerboard is fast, the boat was uncomfortable and wet when the wind and water came up. By comparison our Cape Dory just plows along and does not pound like our previous boat with it's flat bow sections.
Items to pay attention to:
- Gel coat cracks
Cabin top mounted mast step, check for compression cracks and bend in underlying structures
Make sure core soundings taken in usual problem areas
Engine compression if original engine is still in use
Cabin sole, I am replacing ours due to delamination
Drive components, shaft/stuffing box hose/cutlass bearing
Thoroughly inspect mast, boom and rigging
Full Keel with encapsulated ballast; for tracking, stability and safety in an accidental grounding.
Yanmar YSM 8hp - Still running after 25 years, bulletproof design
Interior woodwork - teak and fairly easy to maintain.
Interior layout - perfect for a couple and small family on an extended cruise
Very easy to sail, forgiving
The CDSOA and website
Quality bronze hardware (ports, thru hulls, cleats, stem head, winches)
The not so good:
Original pressurized alcohol stove - could pose a possible fire hazard to an inexperienced user. Though ours still works this is on my replacement list.
Gel coat - expect hairline cracks, cosmetic to serious in nature
Top mounted mast step - could seriously bend cabin top with over tensioned rig
Yanmar YSM 8hp - Could be overwhelmed with combination of current and wind.
End grain balsa core - never easy to repair a soggy or delaminated deck, stuff acts like a sponge
Icebox - could use more insulation. Ours has it only on the lid; side and bottom insulation non-existent
In my opinion a Cape Dory sailboat by comparison to today’s modern choices represents the golden age of when sailboats were still 100% handmade. No computer aided design, CNC milled parts, or robotic assistance was used to put together our CD27. Our CD27 was hand assembled with pride and quality as evidence to the condition she is in after 25 years. If Cape Dory 27's were still being made today, with today's labor market and materials cost, the purchase price would more than turn away potential buyers.
Ray Garcia
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Mark Yashinsky
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 15:24
- Location: 1980 CD27, #173
Second Chance
Concur w/ Warren,
and have a 1980 also. Safe, reliable boat that, if properly maintained, can take anything dished out at her. Has the more traditional look with all the wood trim.
Changes before I knew the boat, repowered in 1985 w/ the GM20F. Plenty of power, and could probably handle a more agressive prop.
Changes I or the P.O. (William, care to make any comments), made:
-Anderson self tailer winches
-rip out as much of the old wiring as possible. Includes charging (!!!) wires and system and upgraded it!!! Added room for more breakers on the electrical panel and divided up the curcuits better.
-P.O. tried a rigid vang to get rid of the topping lift, but the system never worked right, so returning to the original setup.
-dug out any core and epoxy filled deck holes.
-larger holding tank.
-midship cleats IN the toerail.
-Mack pack and both sails.
-nonpressurized Origo stove.
-killer sound system. Fish run when the tunes are playing.
If the wind is really honking, I will and have chased larger more modern boats, because they start reefing earlier and deeper than me and can keep right up w/ them if not pass them. Light air, well...
Changes before I knew the boat, repowered in 1985 w/ the GM20F. Plenty of power, and could probably handle a more agressive prop.
Changes I or the P.O. (William, care to make any comments), made:
-Anderson self tailer winches
-rip out as much of the old wiring as possible. Includes charging (!!!) wires and system and upgraded it!!! Added room for more breakers on the electrical panel and divided up the curcuits better.
-P.O. tried a rigid vang to get rid of the topping lift, but the system never worked right, so returning to the original setup.
-dug out any core and epoxy filled deck holes.
-larger holding tank.
-midship cleats IN the toerail.
-Mack pack and both sails.
-nonpressurized Origo stove.
-killer sound system. Fish run when the tunes are playing.
If the wind is really honking, I will and have chased larger more modern boats, because they start reefing earlier and deeper than me and can keep right up w/ them if not pass them. Light air, well...