Help, my boat is sinking - slowly......

[Rick Robinson]

Help! I need some ideas as to what the cause may really be to my problem. The problem is my boat sprung a leek, about a gallon per hour. I think its coming in from the bottom bolt of the stern bearing housing, but after thinking about it some more, I'm not sure. I'll give a description of my sail on Sunday and would be happy for any ideas/advice I can get.

The day was great. Winds were from 10 to 27 knots. I had a reef in the main and the jenny rolled about
to 2/3 out. The boat handled great. I had a guest aboard who had only sailed one other time before and that was with me on a 5-10 knt wind day and she even said it was a comfortable ride.

We motored out from the slip and I didn't notice anything odd. We sailed about 8 miles to an anchorage spot. On the way to the anchorage I had my friend take the wheel for a bit because I wanted to go below and investigate a "new sound". The prop shaft was spinning. At first I thought this was the first time it has spun as I sailed, but actually it was only the first time I noticed a sound from it spinning. Remember the winds were in the low teens at this point and it wasn't a real quiet sail.

After lunch and a dingy ride ashore to explore the beach, we sailed back past my marina. On the way we hit a log. With the wind, the shallow (avg 22 ft) water kicks up small waves pretty quick. I didn't see it until it was off the stern. The thump was loud, but no noticeable feel, no shake. Being the paranoid sailor that I am, I had my friend go below and watch the bilge to make sure we were not taking on any water. She looked for about 5 minutes and didn't see an increase in the level.

We continued to sail for another few hours before dropping sails and motoring into the harbor (rules prohibit sailing into/out of the marina). While motoring I noticed the engine sounded much rougher then usual. I went below and took off the engine hatch cover to look at the shaft and stuffing box. Nothing looked out of the norm, so I attributed the extra noise to the rougher then normal water.

As I was getting the boat ready for a week by herself, as part of my leaving check list I stuck my head in the bilge. WOW - the water level scared me. I have a CD33 and in the bilge the water was only about an inch below the head overboard discharge through hull. Last week I brought a wet-vac on board and completely dried out the bilge before leaving. On Friday when I checked again when I got back on, it was still dry as a bone.

I pumped out the water and started to slow my clean up routine. I wanted time to check if the log had done more damage then I first thought. I also thought part of the high water may have been from my filling the water tanks earlier that day, but I discount that as a source now. As luck would have it, my friend ran into a traffic jam, so she turned around to come back and tell me - she knew I had a flight to catch. I asked her about the water level in the bilge when she checked after the log. She replied that the level was about where I described (close to the through hull) when she checked.

I got worried. By then, the bilge below the engine had a noticeable amount of water in it even though I dried it out a couple hours earlier. Time to become a contortionist. I emptied the starboard cockpit locker and climbed in behind the engine. At first my thought was stuffing box, but with a small mirror in hand I found a trickle of water coming off the lower bolt holding on the stern bearing housing.

I called and canceled my flight and spent another night on the boat. In the morning, I pumped the boat dry again. I called Robinhood and Wendy connected me to Sam (I think). I told him about the log, but not about the prop spinning. He talked me through removal and re-bedding the stern bearing housing. He also said it would take a pretty good impact to cause the housing to loosen. He also gave me a few ways to check if the prop and/or shaft got bent.

I had the boat pulled and here is what I found: No noticeable wobble in the shaft; about 1 1/16th on an inch difference in the two blades of the prop (as measured with a straight edge held on both sides of the hull and rudder - four checks in all - as the prop was turned). I also noticed that the shaft seemed to be resting on the bottom of the housing opening rather then suspended in the middle as I would expect.

HELP - is my problem the stern baring housing? - I still am planning on re-bedding it this weekend. Or is my cutlas toast? I could freely shake the prop shaft. I am, now, also planning on replacing that this weekend too.

I apologize for the length of this posting, but I am desperate for advice. Thanks!!!



Rick@citycom.com

[Joe]

Help! I need some ideas as to what the cause may really be to my problem. The problem is my boat sprung a leek, about a gallon per hour. I think its coming in from the bottom bolt of the stern bearing housing, but after thinking about it some more, I'm not sure. I'll give a description of my sail on Sunday and would be happy for any ideas/advice I can get.

The day was great. Winds were from 10 to 27 knots. I had a reef in the main and the jenny rolled about

to 2/3 out. The boat handled great. I had a guest aboard who had only sailed one other time before and that was with me on a 5-10 knt wind day and she even said it was a comfortable ride.

We motored out from the slip and I didn't notice anything odd. We sailed about 8 miles to an anchorage spot. On the way to the anchorage I had my friend take the wheel for a bit because I wanted to go below and investigate a "new sound". The prop shaft was spinning. At first I thought this was the first time it has spun as I sailed, but actually it was only the first time I noticed a sound from it spinning. Remember the winds were in the low teens at this point and it wasn't a real quiet sail.

After lunch and a dingy ride ashore to explore the beach, we sailed back past my marina. On the way we hit a log. With the wind, the shallow (avg 22 ft) water kicks up small waves pretty quick. I didn't see it until it was off the stern. The thump was loud, but no noticeable feel, no shake. Being the paranoid sailor that I am, I had my friend go below and watch the bilge to make sure we were not taking on any water. She looked for about 5 minutes and didn't see an increase in the level.

We continued to sail for another few hours before dropping sails and motoring into the harbor (rules prohibit sailing into/out of the marina). While motoring I noticed the engine sounded much rougher then usual. I went below and took off the engine hatch cover to look at the shaft and stuffing box. Nothing looked out of the norm, so I attributed the extra noise to the rougher then normal water.

As I was getting the boat ready for a week by herself, as part of my leaving check list I stuck my head in the bilge. WOW - the water level scared me. I have a CD33 and in the bilge the water was only about an inch below the head overboard discharge through hull. Last week I brought a wet-vac on board and completely dried out the bilge before leaving. On Friday when I checked again when I got back on, it was still dry as a bone.

I pumped out the water and started to slow my clean up routine. I wanted time to check if the log had done more damage then I first thought. I also thought part of the high water may have been from my filling the water tanks earlier that day, but I discount that as a source now. As luck would have it, my friend ran into a traffic jam, so she turned around to come back and tell me - she knew I had a flight to catch. I asked her about the water level in the bilge when she checked after the log. She replied that the level was about where I described (close to the through hull) when she checked.

I got worried. By then, the bilge below the engine had a noticeable amount of water in it even though I dried it out a couple hours earlier. Time to become a contortionist. I emptied the starboard cockpit locker and climbed in behind the engine. At first my thought was stuffing box, but with a small mirror in hand I found a trickle of water coming off the lower bolt holding on the stern bearing housing.

I called and canceled my flight and spent another night on the boat. In the morning, I pumped the boat dry again. I called Robinhood and Wendy connected me to Sam (I think). I told him about the log, but not about the prop spinning. He talked me through removal and re-bedding the stern bearing housing. He also said it would take a pretty good impact to cause the housing to loosen. He also gave me a few ways to check if the prop and/or shaft got bent.

I had the boat pulled and here is what I found: No noticeable wobble in the shaft; about 1 1/16th on an inch difference in the two blades of the prop (as measured with a straight edge held on both sides of the hull and rudder - four checks in all - as the prop was turned). I also noticed that the shaft seemed to be resting on the bottom of the housing opening rather then suspended in the middle as I would expect.

HELP - is my problem the stern baring housing? - I still am planning on re-bedding it this weekend. Or is my cutlas toast? I could freely shake the prop shaft. I am, now, also planning on replacing that this weekend too.

I apologize for the length of this posting, but I am desperate for advice. Thanks!!!

There are two things you didn't mention. As the CD33/330 is known for leaky water tanks, if you're sailing in salt water, did you taste the water in the bilge for salt? It is the ultimate test for water tank leaks.

Also, you make no mention of an automatic bilge pump. Do you have one and, if so, did it or the sensing switch crap out. It could be that you've been leaking low these many years and the bilge pump has been doing its job.

Joe




tgjournal@gestalt.org

[Rick Robinson]

I'd be reluctant to think its comming from the water tanks because of the trickle I saw on the lower bolt and the dry bilge during the prior week (I only topped off my water tanks). But thanks for the idea.

I do have 2 bilge pumps, one manual and one electric. I have a float switch, but do not yet have it hooked up. After this, that will become a priority.

There are two things you didn't mention. As the CD33/330 is known for leaky water tanks, if you're sailing in salt water, did you taste the water in the bilge for salt? It is the ultimate test for water tank leaks.

Also, you make no mention of an automatic bilge pump. Do you have one and, if so, did it or the sensing switch crap out. It could be that you've been leaking low these many years and the bilge pump has been doing its job.

Joe

Rick@citycom.com

[Bill Cochrane]

I also noticed that the shaft seemed to be resting on the bottom of the housing opening rather then suspended in the middle as I would expect.

Or is my cutlas toast? I could freely shake the prop shaft. I am, now, also planning on replacing that this weekend too.

From the above two statements, I'd almost guarantee that your cutlass bearing is just about non-existent. You shouldn't be able to move the prop shaft...or at least move it a noticeable amount. That in itself doesn't account for the water...the shaft log and stuffing box should still contain it...but you're certainly correct in seeing it as a priority repair.

I'm not familiar with the stern bearing housing on the 33, but given that you've already hauled the boat, and suspect that area, by all means go ahead and re-bed it. I think a more likely scenario is the stuffing box, and the water running down the bottom of the log to the bearing bolt. In any event, use this opportunity to repack the stuffing box while you're doing the other work.

One other thought...engine alignment. Mis-alignment can cause premature cutlass bearing wear, and if it's been that way for a while, the worn cutlass bearing could allow the engine to work itself out of alignment. Mis-alignment can also be caused by broken engine mounts, or ones which have lost their elasticity (the rubber part, that is).

As long as you're back there...

Good luck, and hope this helps...

Bill
CD 36 "Phoenix"
Hull #114



cochrane@clark.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Rick,

On the CD-30, the original stuffing box was a Fiberglas tube. This tube was subject to stress cracking over the years due to misalignment of shaft/engine. On Hanalei, the stuffing box did crack, the previous owner noticed a slow leak, and installed a float switch equipped bilge pump, not knowing what the real problem was. Luckly, the yard manager did know! He pulled the boat, removed the fiberglas stuffing box and replaced it with a red brass stuffing box(glassed in place) with a proper external cutlass bearing mount bolted to the aft edge of the keel. I now do not worry about the stuffing box cracking! And, replacing the cutlass bearing is very easy.

I don't know if the CD-33 has the fiberglas stuffing box, but if it does, you might want to check it for cracks. The impact you described in your post may have been just enough to crack it! If cracked, I would replace it, then you don't have to worry about it! A cracked stuffing box can easily sink the boat! FWIW....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[cutt]

Dear Dave,

Any more description or pictures available on the stuffing box fix ?

Thanks,

Rick,

On the CD-30, the original stuffing box was a Fiberglas tube. This tube was subject to stress cracking over the years due to misalignment of shaft/engine. On Hanalei, the stuffing box did crack, the previous owner noticed a slow leak, and installed a float switch equipped bilge pump, not knowing what the real problem was. Luckly, the yard manager did know! He pulled the boat, removed the fiberglas stuffing box and replaced it with a red brass stuffing box(glassed in place) with a proper external cutlass bearing mount bolted to the aft edge of the keel. I now do not worry about the stuffing box cracking! And, replacing the cutlass bearing is very easy.

I don't know if the CD-33 has the fiberglas stuffing box, but if it does, you might want to check it for cracks. The impact you described in your post may have been just enough to crack it! If cracked, I would replace it, then you don't have to worry about it! A cracked stuffing box can easily sink the boat! FWIW....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

cutt@netcom.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Cutt,

No, sorry, I don't have any pictures, but maybe a little further description would help. As I understand it, the original stuffing box fiberglas tube( uh, more properly called the "shaft log") was either cut out completly, or cut off flush on the interior of the hull. A red brass tube(the new shaft log), threaded at the aft end to fit the cutlass bearing support, was inserted from the outside and glassed in place. A new stuffing box seal was attached to the forward end of the tube, the cutless bearing support was screwed onto the aft end. The support is bolted to the aft edge of the keel. Hope this helps......

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Rick Robinson]

Dave - your comments about a new shaft log have got me thinking about something I failed to check. Maybe its just my hopefull feelings trying to cover the task ahead of me this weekend, but here is my "new" idea.

From the shaft log there is a rubber tube to which the stuffing box is attached. This tube is double clamped to both the log and the box. Is it possible that if one of the clamps on the log side has given way and the second is loose, that water may be trickling in from the log end of the rubber tube and down onto the bolt. The result would be what I saw with the mirror - water coming off the lower bolt.

What do you think?

Thanks!!!!!!!



rick@citycom.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Rick,

Ah, ya didn't say what engine you have onboard. If it's a "V" drive MD7A, then you do have the rubber shaft log. The fiberglas log may still be there, but it is much shorter than a CD-30 with the Universal 18 with straight drive tranny. Yes, definately, I would check the hose, clamps, and whatever fiberglas log ya have to see where the leak is coming from. Could be the hose is cracked. Is it original? Dolphin III, out of Mystic, CT (a friend's CD-30) does have the MD7A and when I saw that rubber shaft log, I was shocked! If I had that, I would also replace it with a red brass log at the next pull out. It just doesn't seem very permanent. Oh, and from your original post, it sounds like ya want to change out the cutless bearing, it shouldn't have as much play as you described.

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Rick Robinson]

The rubber hose I talked about is double clamped into the tube coming through the hull. That tube is solid, but I don't know if its a metal or fiberglass tube. I'll check this afternoon.

[Bill Cochrane]

Repost because my original got garbled somehow:

I also noticed that the shaft seemed to be resting on the bottom of the housing opening rather then suspended in the middle as I would expect.

Or is my cutlas toast? I could freely shake the prop shaft. I am, now, also planning on replacing that this weekend too.

From the above two statements, I'd almost guarantee that your cutlass bearing is just about non-existent. You shouldn't be able to move the prop shaft...or at
least move it a noticeable amount. That in itself doesn't account for the water...the shaft log and stuffing box should still contain it...but you're certainly
correct in seeing it as a priority repair.

I'm not familiar with the stern bearing housing on the 33, but given that you've already hauled the boat, and suspect that area, by all means go ahead and
re-bed it. I think a more likely scenario is the stuffing box, and the water running down the bottom of the log to the bearing bolt. In any event, use this
opportunity to repack the stuffing box while you're doing the other work.

One other thought...engine alignment. Mis-alignment can cause premature cutlass bearing wear, and if it's been that way for a while, the worn cutlass bearing
could allow the engine to work itself out of alignment. Mis-alignment can also be caused by broken engine mounts, or ones which have lost their elasticity
(the rubber part, that is).

As long as you're back there...

Good luck, and hope this helps...

Bill
CD 36 "Phoenix"
Hull #114



cochrane@clark.net