Opinions about CQR (anchor) knockoff

[ray b]

Troy,

Your post gives me some appreciation for what our Gulf Fleet friends have to deal with. We in New England haven't had a "real" hurricane since 1938, although we did have the Perfect Storm. I did some web research (off the clock, really ) and found many many articles on this topic. One of the better ones is on yachtsurvey.com. The author is David Pascoe and the title is "Hurricane Preparations". He seems to discourage the use of heavy ground tackle, not because of lack of holding power, but because of the strain on deck hardware. Anyway, here's the link.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/hurricane_preparation.htm

I wish you the best as we enter another hurricane season.

Carl

well I agree most deck hardware is toooo small and needs replacement and additional BIGGER ONES
to handel a big a line 3/4 is a minimum in a storm and bigger is better
but would favor bigger deck hardware mostly for bigger lines and more lines I think 6 lines is a minimum for a real storm
you cannot have tooo big an anchor or too many
just to small or too few
and expect to losse a few lines to
so put floats on the anchors so you can find them after

both my boats survived ANDREW in open water [realy the safest place] at anchor in the bay
and all the hurricanes after that too
btw a 22 danforth or bigger is good in a sand bottom
but a old style 100lbs Herreshoff Yachtman is a good other type
and I DONOT LIKE CQRs or most other plow types

[Troy Scott]

Everybody,

If I decide to anchor in open water, I will be anchoring where the mud is 65 feet deep. Below that is firmer ground. Which storm anchor(s) are best in this situation?

[Russell]

Everybody,

If I decide to anchor in open water, I will be anchoring where the mud is 65 feet deep. Below that is firmer ground. Which storm anchor(s) are best in this situation?

In mud a huge danforth or fortress would hold great but keep in mind they do not reset themselves well often, such as in a drastic windshift. In storm conditions a multi anchor setup is a good idea anyways. But I would have serious reservations about anchoring in 65 feet of water for a storm! You will need a lot of chain/rode, in storm conditions its nice to have about 10:1 scope, not many boats carry enough to have that scope in such deep water.

[Troy Scott]

Russell,

It's 10 feet of water with 65 feet of mud under it. I can see where my previous post was confusing.

[Russell]

Russell,

It's 10 feet of water with 65 feet of mud under it. I can see where my previous post was confusing.

Okay, thats a bit more reasonable! Sorry for my confusion.

[Jim Lewis]

If you don t anchor out at night any anchor that will hold when
deployed in emergency will do.....but if you like to sleep use
cqr with 90 ft of 5/16 chain and when tide and boat changes you won t wake......anchors aboard 30k 35 lb cqr 90 ft chain/rope, 22 Danforth 30 ft chain/300 ft 1/2" rope, Fortress equal to Danforth
and el cheapo for lunch.......one learns when they wake every
5 minutes at night.........good luck with whatever you choose

[Troy Scott]

Jim Lewis,

I guess I sort of stole this thread from S Calder. I apologize. Anyway, we were talking about anchoring for a hurricane. Imagine my surprise when you wrote that with your suggested combination I could sleep through the night. HA Ha Ha....., HA HA HA!

The body of water in question is Dog River, which is off the west side of Mobile Bay. Mobile Bay probably averages about 10 feet deep, and it is said that the bottom is mud that is 65 feet thick. Dog river has a couple of pretty wide areas that are slightly protected and average maybe 7 feet deep. I doubt there is as thick a mud bottom in the river, but I don't know. I'd like to think I could come up with an anchoring system that I could deploy fairly quickly in the river to keep my boat safe in a storm. During Katrina many boats ended up on the banks of the river, but I don't think they were anchored out. I think they just broke loose from docks or floated out of boatyards during the storm surge. There were a couple of boats still anchored after the storm. I suspect they were properly anchored before and during the storm.

[s calder]

There hasn't been a hurricane here in Colorado since 1962......no, wait......that was a tsunami. Anyway, thanks everybody for your input. I'm going to forget the knockoff and go with the real thing. My kids will just have to pay for their own college.

[Troy Scott]

S Calder,

Well, next time you see on the news that south Mississippi is about to have one, come on down! We're happy to share!

[Maine Sail]

But I would have serious reservations about anchoring in 65 feet of water for a storm! You will need a lot of chain/rode, in storm conditions its nice to have about 10:1 scope, not many boats carry enough to have that scope in such deep water.

The scope required to anchor in 65 feet with a 10:1 scope looks like this:

65 + 3 feet of bow height from the water = 68 X 10 which equals 680 feet of rode.. 680 feet of rode is a ridiculous amount! Here's the real problem though if you have a 15' storm surge you now need 830 feet of rode to maintain your 10:1 storm scope..

You're far better off to set a 300 lb mushroom mooring running a 4:1 scope with 3/4" or 7/8" extra heavy chain as a shock absorber. The cost of this mooring set up is probably less than your deductible so I consider it cheap insurance! Buy the mooring, assemble it, and have a service or boat that can set it before the storm. When the storm is over have a service remove the mooring and bring it home until you need it again... I have a friend in Florida who does this and has never lost a boat. He has had damage from other boats dragging onto his but his has never gone ashore. Regular anchors rarely survive a hurricane..

[Russell]

You're far better off to set a 300 lb mushroom mooring running a 4:1 scope with 3/4" or 7/8" extra heavy chain as a shock absorber. The cost of this mooring set up is probably less than your deductible so I consider it cheap insurance! Buy the mooring, assemble it, and have a service or boat that can set it before the storm. When the storm is over have a service remove the mooring and bring it home until you need it again... I have a friend in Florida who does this and has never lost a boat. He has had damage from other boats dragging onto his but his has never gone ashore. Regular anchors rarely survive a hurricane..

Mushroom moorings are terrific, especially in soft mud or sand bottoms. But the problem is that for full effectiveness they need to be set for a length of time so they slowly bury themselves. A freshly set mushroom will be simply sitting on top of the bottom so your only using its weight, nothing else, to hold you in place. Not something I would trust in a hurricane even if your friend has come through several unscathed this way. Now a mushroom that has been down for sometime and really buried itsself, in the right bottom type it can be a pretty foolproof anchor (your chain will break before it dislodges itsself).

[Troy Scott]

Acoustic (Russell),

I just want to reassure everyone that this discussion has become theoretical. As far as I know, nobody is anchoring in 65 feet of water for a hurricane..., certainly not me. As I pointed out earlier, I believe the "65 feet" topic came up as a result of a misunderstanding (my fault) of my earlier post in which I would possibly be anchoring in 65 feet of MUD, which happens to be under 10 feet of WATER.

[Maine Sail]

about a mushroom needing to set but you're still better off with a 300lb mushroom and extra heavy chain than a 45 pound traditional anchor.

Thanks god nobody is planning on anchoring in 65 feet!!!!

[Troy Scott]

OK, how MUCH time does the mushroom need to set in mud? And how am I going to handle a 300 pound mushroom, anyway?

[Oswego John]

Troy,

There's no such thing as instant gratification when setting a mushroom anchor properly, at least as far as I know.

Mushroom Anchors (MA) come in short and long shanks. I never advised using a short shank. The long shank provides extra leverage when force is applied to pull the shank to leeward. This permits the lip of the bowl to dig into the mud or sand. The round edge of the lip acts as a fluke, but with much more area to bite in.

You ask "How am I going to handle a 300 lb MA"?

Make that 300 lbs of MA plus the weight of the chain and tackle fittings. It's too much for one person to handle safely, in my personal opinion. There are ways that you could spot the MA, even set it a bit, but there is no way that you could retrieve it by yourself without proper equipment.

The purpose of a MA is to protect and preserve an expensive asset, like your boat, from harm by high wind and surge. It is prudent for the MA to be set in a professional fashion for it to do the job intended. For that reason I won't mention DIY ways for the amateur to try to set the MA. No offence intended.

Weighted chain, running free, acts like a chainsaw while it drops over the coaming or transom. There is no way to stop it while it is in free fall. The very worst thing that could happen (and it has happened) is for the person dropping the MA and chain to get entangled in the anchor line/chain.

Two things I will mention when setting up your anchor line:

Use several swivels. I like to place one between the MA shank and the bottom of the chain. To me, the most important swivel is placed between the top end of the chain and the tri ply anchor line. It wouldn't hurt to put another swivel between the top of the tri strand anchor line and the mooring ball.

Years ago, we had a power work boat and a barge with a 4" pipe A-frame on the end. There was a sheave at the top of tha A-frame and a powerful hand winch and wire rope for setting and retrieving MAs and raising sunken boats.

After we dropped a MA, we would initially set it in the mud/sand by power. For the sake of argument, let us say that the prevailing wind came from the north. We would attach the end of the anchor line to the work boat an proceed to the south. After the anchor line became taut, we would operate the work boat in an arc, first to the east and then to the west a half dozen times or so. This tension on the anchor line pulled on the MA shank which tilted it a bit. By passing back and forth it helped wiggle the lip a little into the mud to prevent the rounded bowl from skating along the bottom.

We found that a MA used in conjunction with some chain was a very effective mooring. When the seas were rolling, the weight of a hanging chain was a useful damper to reduce shock on the boat's mooring bit.

Best regards
O J