Opinions about CQR (anchor) knockoff

[s calder]

I am considering a 25# stainless steel CQR knockoff I found on ebay, mainly because it is half the cost of the real deal, and wonder if anybody has any experience with or knowledge about such a product or advice to share. Thanks.

[Greg Kozlowski]

What I have heard from every owner who has ever had a CQR knockoff and eventually gotten rid of it is that they don't dig in well at all because unlike the originals they do NOT have the filling of lead in the V of the point.

Same goes for Bruce knockoffs. I've had a chance to put a Bruce 15K knockoff beside my original to compare and the angles are NOT the same at all.

Wouldn't trust a knockoff anchor, period. Too much to risk, simply.

Regards,

Greg

[Paul Grecay]

Ground tackle is no place to save money!

[johnny of STORK]

The cheaper copies are cast instead of forged, and have probably something like one fifth the tensile strength -- not good enough.

Johnny of STORK

[Russell]

I am considering a 25# stainless steel CQR knockoff I found on ebay, mainly because it is half the cost of the real deal, and wonder if anybody has any experience with or knowledge about such a product or advice to share. Thanks.

Speaking to a lot of full time cruisers who have wasted money on knock off CQRs I would definately avoid them. Where the pin is tends to wear out very rapidly which leads initally to the anchor not setting properly due to the play in the pin then ultimately to failure of the anchor (ie it breaks!!). I have spoken to many people who have had okay luck with knock off bruces, no moving parts, but they still dont last as long. But knock off CQRs or any other multi peice anchor avoid like the plague.

[Carl Thunberg]

I don't necessarily disagree with what's been said. However, our body of knowledge will never increase unless and until someone takes a chance and then reports their findings, in detail. I'm a strong believer in experimentation. Science and engineering don't advance if no one takes a risk. This "knock-off" may, in fact, hold as well as the original. We don't really know, do we?

At the risk of sounding like I'm throwing caution to the wind, I wouldn't hesitate to go for it, and use it sparingly in very controlled conditions (i.e. low or no risk) until it proves itself to be either reliable or unreliable. This purchase should be considered venture capital, though. Be prepared that it might end up in a yard sale, for reasons the others have stated.

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

I will probably keep my CD36 in a marina in Mobile. This is not a good place for a sailboat in a hurricane.

A little history: I used to own a 33 foot Pearson, which I kept in Mobile. I had pretty good luck with Hurricane Ivan. Most of the boats left the marina. I stayed, but I took the opportunity to tie up diagonally across several slips, with the bow pointed East. I had 13 lines, lots of chafing gear, etc.. That worked out OK. However, for Katrina, the boat was "on the hard" at a yard on Dog River. I regret taking BAD advice and leaving it there for the storm. The surge picked it up along with everything else and washed it away. It was later found miles away, with most of the hull to deck joint gone, along with toerails, stancions, etc.. I will never again leave a boat exposed on the hard during hurricane season. I've thought a lot about how to prepare for a storm. Finding a good hurricane hole and tying up to sturdy trees is always an option, but most of the good spots have been staked out for years. But, after observing what Katrina did to our trees, I'm not so sure...

These days I wonder if it might be smart to just anchor out in the river, using "disposable" gear. I could get three really heavy cheap anchors and some grossly oversized hardware store chain,hook it all up with heavy nylon bridles, and arrange the anchors in a 120 degree pattern with lots of scope. I might even stay on the boat to fend off flotsam and other boats.

Another option is to motor WAY up the Mobile River. This is also dubious.... Depending on the path of the storm conditions on a river 80 miles inland might be as bad as on the coast. I just don't know..... but I DO know I never want to experience another Katrina.

[Parfait's Provider]

Parfait used to be near Mobile at Mess About Marina in Orange Beach. As I understand it the entire marina was cleared for each hurricane and most boats went to narrow rivers where they could tie to nearly immovable objects. Anchors on board when I inspected Parfait at first were a 35# CQR (real), a large (35+#?) Danforth, and a lunch hook Danforth. We now have two 35# CQRs (both real) plus the lunch hook; the monster Danforth didn't transfer with the boat.

[s calder]

Thanks for the valuable input. BTW....I'm in a lake in Colorado. The wind can get nasty but it is almost always calm at night when I'd be anchored. I won't be facing conditions like you ocean dwellers do. Just wondering if that would impact opinions on a knockoff. Thanks

[cbrenton]

The sea has elemental forces of such incredible power that circumstances arise which no boat or sailor can survive. The only solution is to have the combination of wisdom and luck to stay out of the way.

Charlie Brenton
"Carol Anne"
CD 33

[Troy Scott]

The sea has elemental forces of such incredible power that circumstances arise which no boat or sailor can survive. The only solution is to have the combination of wisdom and luck to stay out of the way.

Charlie Brenton
"Carol Anne"
CD 33

I can't afford too many expensive lessons on the way to wisdom. I'll take all the practical advice I can get from people who've been there.

[Carl Thunberg]

Troy,

Your post gives me some appreciation for what our Gulf Fleet friends have to deal with. We in New England haven't had a "real" hurricane since 1938, although we did have the Perfect Storm. I did some web research (off the clock, really ) and found many many articles on this topic. One of the better ones is on yachtsurvey.com. The author is David Pascoe and the title is "Hurricane Preparations". He seems to discourage the use of heavy ground tackle, not because of lack of holding power, but because of the strain on deck hardware. Anyway, here's the link.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/hurricane_preparation.htm

I wish you the best as we enter another hurricane season.

Carl

[rtbates]

S Calder wrote

Thanks for the valuable input. BTW....I'm in a lake in Colorado. The wind can get nasty but it is almost always calm at night when I'd be anchored. I won't be facing conditions like you ocean dwellers do. Just wondering if that would impact opinions on a knockoff. Thanks

I'd say NO NO and again NO. I too sail on an inland lake. ALL LEE shore!!! Do you get fall and spring Northers? We sure do and two years in a row I was planted on land because of a 180° wind shift along with big winds during the night and of course my Danforth couldn't handle the wind shift. It now plugs a hole in my fence to keep my dog from digging under. Works great for that application. But back to knock offs. They just simply are not worth the risk, IMHO, despite what others have said. All it takes is one. Let someone else, maybe Carl will volunteer, to be the test mule. I sure would anchor Seraph, our 25D, with anything less than the best. An anchor is a piece of safety gear.

[Oswego John]

Carl,

I remember that storm. We lived on the waterfront. We didn't have the sophisticated weather reporting systems then than are now available.

Those who earned a living on the water relied on the logic of lore, cloud formations, wind directions and the natural built in weather prediction system provided by nature which was honed to near perfection by everyday experience. For instance, watch the gulls. They sense the barometer better than we do. When they fly inland en masse, take heed and do likewise. We did.

Just about every home had a classic flask and spout barometer. This could register high and low barometric pressures and forecast weather up to 12 hour in advance.

When our family returned home after the storm, we were met by a wooden sand barge that broke loose and was sitting half across the street and half in our yard and driveway. The juggernaut rode the surge, wiped out the utility poles and power lines and finally came to rest about four yards from our house.

I feel that both you and the author are correct about mooring during a tropical storm or hurricane. Many responsible authors advise using multiple anchoring systems and chafing gear. No matter how many anchors and rodes are used, the question remains, at what point do these multiple lines attach to the boat? How many of these extra, heavier lines will fit under one or two standard bow cleats, aside from the winch line? I won't bring up extra chafing gear and the chocks they are supposed to ride in.

Usually once a year, at about the onset of hurricane season, I bring up the use of a sampson post for boats in "hurricane alley" locations. Again, I'm not going to go into depth on the subject. There is plenty of info in the archives already.

The debate usually is divided into two camps, quantity or quality?. The final point of the discussion is where and how to attach the larger, extra storm ground tackles to what?

Best regards,
O J

[Neil Gordon]

However, our body of knowledge will never increase unless and until someone takes a chance and then reports their findings, in detail. I'm a strong believer in experimentation. Science and engineering don't advance if no one takes a risk. This "knock-off" may, in fact, hold as well as the original. We don't really know, do we?

You don't need a perfect storm trying to wreck a perfect boat in order to do comparison tests on anchors. Practical Sailor does them all the time.