Sailing Characteristics of a CD 25D

[Sea Hunt]

As you may know from my prior posts, I have been looking for a Cape Dory for many, many months. I started out looking at CD 22s because of my limited sailing experience. When I realized there were few on the market, I expanded the search to include CD Typhoon Weekenders, CD 25Ds and even possibly CD 27s.

When she saw pictures, "The Admiral" really liked the CD 25D with the forward MSD in what would be the v-berth as well as the additional cabin head room.

I have looked at several CD 25Ds and sailed two of them for brief (1 hour) outings in Biscayne Bay. From reading CDSOA message board posts, I was of the belief that CD 25Ds are excellent sailboats, especially under sail (versus auxiliary) - which is what they are - sailboats. However, I have very little experience with which to compare.

I recently looked at a CD 25 (not the CD 25D) owned by a very nice gentleman who has been "messing around in boats" for 50-plus years and was (still is?) a marine surveyor. He cautioned against a CD 25D suggesting they were not very good under sail and were really "motor sailers". He suggested that the high freeboard/gunnels (?) make them difficult to point well - if I understood him correctly.

I am a true "rookie" and have no idea how accurate this advise is although he sure seemed like at "straight shooter" and a nice guy.

I would welcome the thoughts of experienced CD owners concerning the sailing characteristics of the CD 25D.

I will not here repeat my sailing experience. It is detailed in other posts. Suffice it to state it is limited. We want a CD that we will be comfortable with on daysails and a few overnights (we understand the limitations of the Ty Weekender in this regard) and one that I can single hand without "white knuckles".

Again, my thanks to all for your input and advise.

[Anthony P. Jeske]

Hi Robert:
I suppose it's human nature for someone selling something to bad mouth the competition! We just have to take those comments with a grain of salt. I never though that Cape Dorys had particularly high freeboard. Look at a Catalina 25 or a Hunter 25. I think you'll agree that a CD has less freeboard.
As far as sailing ability is concerned, I've always felt that you'll get the most unbiased answer from a neutral source. A source I like to use to compare sailing ability are PHRF ratings, which as you probably know, are established by race committees and impartially reflect the performance differences among boats. If you look at the PHRF ratings for CD's listed on this website, you'll see that the CD-25 rates 261, while the CD-25D rates 252. In other words, the 25-D is 9 seconds per mile faster than the 25.
Happy Sailing!
Tony

[Sea Hunt]

Tony:

Thanks. I apologize to all that my earlier post was not clear. The gentleman I talked with had wonder things to say about Cape Dory sailboats. He owns two of them - a Ty Weekender as well as a CD 25. His only negative comment concerned the CD 25D.

I apologize for the lack of clarity in my earlier post.

[rtbates]

Your source is just a tad incorrect, to be nice.

Our 25D, Seraph, has had no trouble walking away from the two CD25 that I have sailed alongside.

In general the 25D's main needs to be reefed early and often. The main also needs to be kept in good shape. Too much main or a badly set main is the #1 cause of excessive weather helm.

Best wishes and happy sailing.

The 25D is a great boat.

[Scott MacCready]

My first sailboat was a Cape Dory 25. It was a great learning platform and a joy to sail. It's low freeboard and beautiful shear always drew compliments. I moved up to a Cape Dory 26, which is esentially the same hull as the 25D mainly for the standing headroom. It's sailing characteristics where much different than the 25. Whether it was the higher freeboard or not I do not know but it never seemed to point as high as the 25. It had all new sails but where the 25 had a hanked on genoa, my 26 had a ruller furling without a luff pad. That may've been the difference. It also seemed sluggish but that may just be because it was a bigger boat, and also, I was living aboard which also made it much heavier. I now have a Cape Dory 30-K and am so far very pleased with it's sailing characteristics. It's no racer but it seems to point higher than my 26 did. Once again though,this is with hanked on headsails.

[Joe Myerson]

Sea Hunt:

Here's a little story from my shakedown cruise on Sunday:

As I was doing the final tweaking on my 25D, a gentleman even older than myself came up with a big smile on his face and asked, "How long have you had that boat?"

"This is my third season," I answered. "And I love her!"

"I'm glad you said that," said he. "I'm the man who was responsible for putting most of the Cape Dories into production, and I think the 25D was one of the best boats we ever built." He went on to explain how Cape Dory Boats, like so many in the 19980s, found itself driven by a desperate search for sales.

"A rep would come in to George and say, 'I need a new model to sell,' and George would call up Carl [Alberg] and ask for another model. It was crazy! But the 25D was one of our best boats, ever."

The gentleman's name is Hunter Scott, and he now custom builds magnificent Down East-style boats on hulls built in Maine by the legendary Spencer Lincoln. He took me aboard his personal boat to show me the exquisite layout and workmanship.

"There's a lot of Cape Dory in her, don't you think?" he asked.

On the same dock was a sweet little CD 25, also getting ready for its maiden voyage of the season (they didn't go sailing, because it was too windy for the owner's wife). He looked at it and said, "Yup, those are nice boats, too. But it's the 25D that was one of our nicest boats, if you ask me."

Just one person's view, perhaps. But he knows a lot about boats and boatbuilding.

--Joe

[Bob Ohler]

Sea Hunt, I owned CD25D hull #2 for a number of years. There were 189 of these boats made. I sailed her extensively on the Chesapeake Bay, probably totalling thousands of miles. She handled all conditions favorably from light air to the effects of hurricane Dennis passing by. It got to the point where I could sail her right into the slip without ever starting the engine. I could easily handle the boat solo, or she was great with a crew of two. For boat of this size, she was comfortable and safe. I carried a full compliment of hanked-on head sails including a 150, a 130, a working sail plus a heavy weather sail of about 70 square feet. I used the 130 most frequently.
The comment to reef early on often is excellent advice. Many Cape Dories prefer this practice.
A number of years back, Good Old Boat wrote a nice article on the 25D's.
With all do respect, the gentleman who bad mouthed the 25D was mis-informed.

Good Luck!
Bob Ohler
CD30 #335
sv "Aloha Spirit"

[Neil Gordon]

In other words, the 25-D is 9 seconds per mile faster than the 25.

At five knots, you'd get to a ten mile away lunch anchorage a whole minute and a half later. As long as the time doesn't come at the expense of your afternoon nap, it doesn't make much difference.

(I suspect the lighter boat is faster in lighter air and vice versa.)

[Drew]

Sea Hunt - I am not a CD owner (yet), but, I can't resist.

As you say you are a new sailor the first important lesson about sailing is that if you ask two sailors the same question you will always wind up with three opinions.

That understood, a fellow named John Vigor, who sometimes haunts this board, wrote a book called "Twenty Small Sailboats That Will Take You Anywhere," or somesuch.

There's a detailed write up of the 25D that is quite favorable and you can read it standing up in the bookstore if cash is tight.

Good luck! Drew.

[Sea Hunt]

Drew:

Thanks. Yes, I bought Mr. Vigor's book about two years ago when I began my unreasonable quest to buy, own and sail a Cape Dory in South Florida. I believe his discussion of the CD 25D may well have been the catalyst for me to look almost exclusively for Cape Dories.

[Dean Abramson]

Robert,
The 25D is a great-sailing boat. Mine is now under contract, by the way. You would not regret buying a 25D, in my opinion.
Good luck!
Dean

[Bob Luby]

I've had Grendel, 25D, #95 for ages.

I have not outgrown her.

Her headroom and her capacious head make her adequate for me, ( 6'4"). But my wife, 5"4, can reach and handle everything on her without too much trouble.

She needs a bit of wind, but once you have it, she makes up for it by having a comfortable motion. Her full keel lets you set the sails, balance the boat, and lash the tiller.

You will not be disappointed with her.
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[Dick Kobayashi]

Buy the 25D. You'll be happy for a long long time.

[Carl Thunberg]

Going back to Robert's original post, you said that you're mostly interested in day sailing with an occasional overnight, and that you have limited sailing experience. The 25D may be more boat than you need. You don't say anything about your experience with engine maintenance. There's something to be said for a boat that has an outboard for auxiliary power. If you have a problem with a balky outboard, you can lift it out and work on it in the comfort of your garage or send it out to someone who knows what they're doing. Just one more variable to consider, that's all. You said you were originally attracted to the CD22. You may be equally attracted to the Seasprite 23 or, (dare I say it?), the 25. Despite the difference in PHRF ratings between the 25 and the 25D, the 25 is fine performing sailboat.

[Dick Kobayashi]

Part of the long term happiness is the standing headroom. Carl has good points if the cost of the headroom and inboard are too hard on the budget.