Tiller to Wheel for CD25

[Lee Carlson]

Took a beautiful little CD25 for a test sail last weekend, and the one part I really didn't like was the tiller. We had five people in 15 knots on a beam reach with seas running 3-4 ft. The constant motion of the tiller to steer up and over the waves meant that there was hardly any room in the cockpit to sit. Also, my six-year old son can steer a 46-footer with a wheel in the same conditions, but never would have had the strength to handle the CD25 with tiller.I thought a conversion to a wheel, with the helmsman sitting on a cushion that snapped onto the top of the lazarette, would be a nice change.

I know other CD25's have been converted, and wondered how (what size wheel, where is it, etc.), and if owners liked the results. Thanks.



lcarlson@belindabarton.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>Took a beautiful little CD25 for a test sail last weekend, and the one part I really didn't like was the tiller.<<

Change to a wheel and you'll block free flow through the cockpit.

I've sailed LIQUIDITY with six in the cockpit. Once you get used to where the tiller will be, you'll stop hitting people with it. It's traditional, reliable, etc., etc. And I can hold it between my legs or alongside one leg and have both hands free and reach either winch. Can't do that standing behind a wheel.

>>The constant motion of the tiller to steer up and over the waves meant that there was hardly any room in the cockpit to sit.<<

If everyone was sitting, the tiller should have cleared over them. (You getting the idea that I'm a tiller fan? <g>)

>>Also, my six-year old son can steer a 46-footer with a wheel in the same conditions, ...<<

Next year, he'll be seven. The tiller is more responsive and will give him a better feel for the boat. It will, imo, make him a better sailor.

Yes, my arm gets tired after a long stretch on one tack in a good wind. <g>


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Bill]

I agree with Neil! To me a tiller is much more responsive and less intrusive in the cockpit (IMHO) and when not in use I stow it upright in the mainsheet. The only problem is when you do get on a boat with a wheel I make "tiller moves" which are the direct opposite of what needs to be done (I'm a slow learner). I know just drive the car!!!!!!

my 2 cents.

Bill
S/V Rhapsody
CD25D #148



cd25d@clnk.com

[A real sailor]

Wheels are for cars and stink-potters. Teach your kid how to sail with a tiller. He'll thank you when he grows up and really understands what makes a boat turn.

b

Took a beautiful little CD25 for a test sail last weekend, and the one part I really didn't like was the tiller. We had five people in 15 knots on a beam reach with seas running 3-4 ft. The constant motion of the tiller to steer up and over the waves meant that there was hardly any room in the cockpit to sit. Also, my six-year old son can steer a 46-footer with a wheel in the same conditions, but never would have had the strength to handle the CD25 with tiller.I thought a conversion to a wheel, with the helmsman sitting on a cushion that snapped onto the top of the lazarette, would be a nice change.

I know other CD25's have been converted, and wondered how (what size wheel, where is it, etc.), and if owners liked the results. Thanks.

[Don Carr]

Took a beautiful little CD25 for a test sail last weekend, and the one part I really didn't like was the tiller. We had five people in 15 knots on a beam reach with seas running 3-4 ft. The constant motion of the tiller to steer up and over the waves meant that there was hardly any room in the cockpit to sit. Also, my six-year old son can steer a 46-footer with a wheel in the same conditions, but never would have had the strength to handle the CD25 with tiller.I thought a conversion to a wheel, with the helmsman sitting on a cushion that snapped onto the top of the lazarette, would be a nice change.

I would stick with the wheel for two reasons at a minimum. First are you ready to throw about 2G's into the boat and add another maintainance item? Second a 40" destroyer wheel looks very unattractive on a 25' boat. If the tiller is that unmanageable in a 15 knot wind with only 3-4 ft seas, time to look at rigging tuning and boat weight trim. I find on my boat (CD25) in those conditions with properly trimmed sails tillering is a two finger event or better yet tie off the tiller and let her autosail on a beam reach.

I know other CD25's have been converted, and wondered how (what size wheel, where is it, etc.), and if owners liked the results. Thanks.

carrd@erols.com

[Lee Carlson]

Funny how some people's arrogant ignorance comes out on the internet. Actually, real sailors know that wheels AND tillers both have their place. I've raced and sailed everything from Lasers to Maxis all over the world, and used (and enjoyed) tillers on boats up to 44 feet. My kid (and I) know how to sail with a tiller. I just wanted to know, IF I made the decision to switch to a (small) wheel, is it possible and how much would it cost?

Wheels are for cars and stink-potters. Teach your kid how to sail with a tiller. He'll thank you when he grows up and really understands what makes a boat turn.

lcarlson@belindabarton.com

[Bruce Bett]

Lee:

If you search the archives on this site you will find some other discussion of wheels for the CD25. I concure with my friends on this board however that it's a bad idea and urge you think long about it. Sostenuto my 1977 CD25 is very nicely balanced and requires little pressure to steer in moderate winds. When I find her getting cranky I take it as que to tuck in my first reef. She calms right down then. My advice to you is first of all buy that boat! It's a great boat for teaching kids how to sail (very forgiving). Sail it for a year with the tiller and play with the trim. I'm betting after a year you'll keep the tiller.

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto
CD25 #496

Took a beautiful little CD25 for a test sail last weekend, and the one part I really didn't like was the tiller. We had five people in 15 knots on a beam reach with seas running 3-4 ft. The constant motion of the tiller to steer up and over the waves meant that there was hardly any room in the cockpit to sit. Also, my six-year old son can steer a 46-footer with a wheel in the same conditions, but never would have had the strength to handle the CD25 with tiller.I thought a conversion to a wheel, with the helmsman sitting on a cushion that snapped onto the top of the lazarette, would be a nice change.

I know other CD25's have been converted, and wondered how (what size wheel, where is it, etc.), and if owners liked the results. Thanks.

bettb@macomb.cc.mi.us

[Walt Bilofsky (Webmaster)]

Uncivil messages - such as this one - will not be permitted on this board. Messages lacking a signature and email address are permitted, of course, but it's not as friendly, and the lack of email forces the Webmaster to skip over the usual first step of a friendly private reply.

Perhaps this page has reached the level of maturity - or some participants have reached the level of immaturity - that a written Acceptable Use Policy will be necessary. Sigh.

In this case, a follow-on message, apparently by the same poster, has been deleted. Lee's reply to this message has been deemed a more appropriate action than deleting it.

- Walt Bilofsky, Staff Commodore and Webmaster
California Cape Dory Owners' Assn.



bilofsky@toolworks.com

[Don Carr]

Uncivil messages - such as this one - will not be permitted on this board. Messages lacking a signature and email address are permitted, of course, but it's not as friendly, and the lack of email forces the Webmaster to skip over the usual first step of a friendly private reply.

Perhaps this page has reached the level of maturity - or some participants have reached the level of immaturity - that a written Acceptable Use Policy will be necessary. Sigh.

I second Walt's opinion here. I am surprised that someone sailing a classic boat would stoop to such levels. If we all knew everything we would all be published. I never want to feel that I can't ask a question, if for no other reason than to sample feedback and actual experience; for that is the beauty of sailing, experiential.

In this case, a follow-on message, apparently by the same poster, has been deleted. Lee's reply to this message has been deemed a more appropriate action than deleting it.

- Walt Bilofsky, Staff Commodore and Webmaster
California Cape Dory Owners' Assn.

carrd@erols.com

[Rich Del Colle]

I have a CD25 with an Edson Wheel. Came with the boat so I had the decision made for me. The installation looks complicated to my eye , major project. The Edson line is not cheap, but I will attest to factory support as excellent. I have not measured the wheel, but believe it's 22" and has a quick release nut for removing the wheel to allow more cockpit room when not sailing. The tiller post remains exposed, so that you can attach and steer with the tiller if you had a problem with the Edson unit. Combine this with the fact you can remove the wheel, you can still use a tiller, although you would have to dodge the pedestal. I keep the tiller secured to the inside wall of the starboard cockpit locker. and have not used it. I like the wheel, which came with a wheel brake, and throttle/shift levers. I doubt I would have added it considering the purchase price of the boat and it's relatively small size. Request a catalog from www.edsonintl.com and you can price out the hardware. I have to believe you'll hit the $2K number mentioned earlier. With an average yard rate of $50/hr I am guessing 15 - 20 hr install for another $1k in labor. Even if you were to take a look at the installation on my CD25, there's not much you can see under the cockpit floor without lights and mirrors. Good luck. Rich Del Colle EXFIBRA CD25, Hull#28



richard_delcolle@hp.com

[Walt Bilofsky]

P.S.: Actually the message above (from "A real sailor") was only mildly uncivil, and by itself I wouldn't have removed it or commented on it. The other message by the same poster, which I did delete, was quite nasty and abusive. That message was the reason for my comment.

- Walt



bilofsky@toolworks.com

[Dave Potts]

>And I can hold it between my legs or alongside one leg and have both hands free and reach either winch. Can't do that standing behind a wheel.

Actually, you can quite easily - just lean a knee, hip or whatever's convenient against the wheel and your hands are free. Can be done just as easily from the sides as from behind the wheel; both winches are easily accessible. I routinely sailed my CD30 single-handed and did just that. And if you've properly balanced the boat, you can lock the wheel brake to temporarily step away from the helm entirely. One chilly Maine spring day before I had installed an autopilot, I locked the wheel on a heading towards a bouy a couple miles off and and kept a lookout while huddled in the companionway under the dodger with the heat from the cabin wafting up (quite comfortable). Alas, I did have to leave my warm perch awhile later to make course adjustments once it became evident that a collision with that buoy was imminent!

Dave Potts
1982 CD30 "Andronikos"
(for sale $29,900, see <a href="http://dcpotts.home.att.net/boat4sale.h ... ale.htm</a>)
1976 Typhoon Weekender (Still Nameless After All These Years)



dcpotts@worldnet.att.net

[M. R. Bober]

thebobers@erols.com

[Paul Scribner]

Uncivil messages - such as this one - will not be permitted on this board. perhaps a written Acceptable Use Policy will be necessary. Sigh.

Don't sigh, Walt, just accept our congratulations for a great job as webmaster, I was glad to be able to give you a hand in person in Onset.
Written regs. and policies are only good for those who don't need them to begin with. Boorish behavior, unfortunately, cannot be precluded by Cape Dory ownership: simply regretted.
Paul Scribner
Serenitas CD28
Scituate, MA



scribner@channel1.com