Hi Gary,
It looks like Kurt sent his response in while I was typing mine We're basically both on the same page, suggesting using terminals to attach and detach the 12V wires.
Any penetration through the cabin roof must be sealed. I have been using something with success for sealing purposes that I can't recall ever reading about on the board. The stuff I use is called DuxSeal, but it is available under various other trade names.
DuxSeal, et al, is sold in bricks of various weights from 1/2 lb to 5 lbs. You can tear off a chunk and roll it in your palms until it resembles a bread stick of any diameter you want. After it is inserted around whatever you want to be sealed, it remains semi pliable and will be easy to remove at a later date. It is similar to working with putty or clay.
Does it last, does it retain it's sealing effectiveness? I kid you not, I have installed some of this product 58 years ago and it is still holding up. This is what utility, cable and phone companies use to seal their cable penetrations on the side of your house. (No, I don't own stock in the company. Wish I bought some 50 years ago.)
Dealing with mast wiring, there are so many valid ways to skin this cat. As gsd46 mentions, you can install a permanent plastic nipple or through hull fitting through the deck and up past the hole in the hinge plate. Whatever route you decide to take, make sure that you can get at the penetration to adequately seal it, especially under the mast plate.
As an afterthought so that you will see what Kurt and I are talking about, the length of the mast cables will arguably be 12" to 15" long inside the cabin roof penetration, then trim to comfortable working length. The coax will plug into the coax that runs to the source. The 12V wires will terminate to a terminal strip that is mounted on the cabin ceiling, near the penetration. Of course, don't limit the length to what is suggested. Field conditions may predicate longer lengths.
The beauty of this system is that when it is time to unstep the mast, simply loosen the terminal strip screws and slide out the spade terminals. Then unscrew the coax connector. Reverse the process in the spring.
Good luck,
O J
Wires Through Deck
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
O.J. Your sealant sounds great where do I get some? And.....
O.J.
I like the sound of that sealant, where do I find it?
Also, you mentioned "Then unscrew the coax connector."
Do you mean that the hole through the deck accommodates the coax connector or do you mean remove the coax connector and reinstall it? Mine are solder on, do you recommend another type?
Thanks All. The mast may be coming down soon!
Gary
I like the sound of that sealant, where do I find it?
Also, you mentioned "Then unscrew the coax connector."
Do you mean that the hole through the deck accommodates the coax connector or do you mean remove the coax connector and reinstall it? Mine are solder on, do you recommend another type?
Thanks All. The mast may be coming down soon!
Gary
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
DuxSeal
Hi Gary,
Yup, I get mine at the local electric supply house. Look up the location in the yellow pages. Lowes, Home Depot and other home supplies should carry the stuff, maybe under a different trade name. A one pound brick should last you maybe ten years.
As far as the coax goes, you would need a threaded connector to make up the cable continuity in the spring, and disassemble it in the fall when you unstep your mast. It is similar to the connector you hook up your TV to the wall cable outlet. Radio Shack or other electronic supplys should carry them. You can install the connectors yourself if you're careful.
You can pay someone to install it, or you can buy the skinner and crimper, an extra set or two of connectors and a few feet of coax to practice with before you do your mast. When you own your own boat, you have to push yourself a little extra to learn to be self sufficient in certain areas. The baggies that the connectors come in have directions and measurements printed on them.
Go for it, man. you can do it. If all else fails and you don't have confidence, you can always call in a TV or cable repairman to do it for you.
Good luck,
O J
Yup, I get mine at the local electric supply house. Look up the location in the yellow pages. Lowes, Home Depot and other home supplies should carry the stuff, maybe under a different trade name. A one pound brick should last you maybe ten years.
As far as the coax goes, you would need a threaded connector to make up the cable continuity in the spring, and disassemble it in the fall when you unstep your mast. It is similar to the connector you hook up your TV to the wall cable outlet. Radio Shack or other electronic supplys should carry them. You can install the connectors yourself if you're careful.
You can pay someone to install it, or you can buy the skinner and crimper, an extra set or two of connectors and a few feet of coax to practice with before you do your mast. When you own your own boat, you have to push yourself a little extra to learn to be self sufficient in certain areas. The baggies that the connectors come in have directions and measurements printed on them.
Go for it, man. you can do it. If all else fails and you don't have confidence, you can always call in a TV or cable repairman to do it for you.
Good luck,
O J
Standard Coax Connectors?
O.J.
The antennae at the top of the mast takes a special connector with a large screw on base. I assume that the radio has the same connection.
I never considered just using normal TV type connectors below deck. I'm an home burglar alarm installer and can do that type of connection easily. It will also be easy to tuck up between the deck and the head liner.
By the way, do you know the difference between the two fittings? Why is one so big and one so small?
Thanks, It looks like I'm going to get my wish! A clean look, and the wires can be disconnected before I start to step and all connections below deck. I'm ready to go.
The antennae at the top of the mast takes a special connector with a large screw on base. I assume that the radio has the same connection.
I never considered just using normal TV type connectors below deck. I'm an home burglar alarm installer and can do that type of connection easily. It will also be easy to tuck up between the deck and the head liner.
By the way, do you know the difference between the two fittings? Why is one so big and one so small?
Thanks, It looks like I'm going to get my wish! A clean look, and the wires can be disconnected before I start to step and all connections below deck. I'm ready to go.
Conduit or Cable Ties, that is the question?
Most mast rewires around here involve running plastic conduit up the mast and securing it with pop revets. Mainly to stop the wires from banging agains the mast.
But there is another way.
Attached three or four wire ties to the wire, every 18 inches or so, leaving their tails stand out, while pulling the wires up the mast.
Now the tails of the wire ties press up against the walls of the mast keeping the wire from swinging in the mast. Has anyone tried this. I'm planning to do the conduit but this sounds like it will work, its a lot easier, and I may try it.
Gary
But there is another way.
Attached three or four wire ties to the wire, every 18 inches or so, leaving their tails stand out, while pulling the wires up the mast.
Now the tails of the wire ties press up against the walls of the mast keeping the wire from swinging in the mast. Has anyone tried this. I'm planning to do the conduit but this sounds like it will work, its a lot easier, and I may try it.
Gary
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Bill Cochrane
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:42
- Location: Cape Dory 36 #114
s/v Phoenix
Coax Connectors: Don't use the TV style. (edited)
The ones normally used on boats (and the ones that you will find on the antenna base and the back of the radio) are called UHF connectors; the plug is a PL-259 and the socket is an SO-239. These are about 1" in diameter.
There is a smaller diameter one that will work if you are using cable of circa 1/4" diameter (eg, RG-8X). It is called a BNC. (B for Bayonet, it's a simple twist lock not a screw-on). There is a less common threaded version called a TNC which is the same size but uses threads.
Normally the cable at the mast step is cut and a male connector added on each end, then a double female adapter used between them, since in-line female connectors are rare.
There are two reasons you don't want to use a TV connector: The center conductor of radio cable is usually thicker (in the TV connector the center conductor is used to plug into the socket, with the PL-259 or BNC/TNC, a separate pin is soldered to the wire). More importantly is impedence match. Radio cable and antennas of the type used on marine VHF is designed at 50 ohm impedence and the connectors must adhere to this standard or you will lose power. TV coax and connectors are 75 ohm and therefore a mismatch.
One quick added note: the UHF and BNC/TNC connectors need to be matched to the type cable you're using (such as RG-8X) so that everything fits properly. PL-259s in particular are made in many different cable sizes.
There is a smaller diameter one that will work if you are using cable of circa 1/4" diameter (eg, RG-8X). It is called a BNC. (B for Bayonet, it's a simple twist lock not a screw-on). There is a less common threaded version called a TNC which is the same size but uses threads.
Normally the cable at the mast step is cut and a male connector added on each end, then a double female adapter used between them, since in-line female connectors are rare.
There are two reasons you don't want to use a TV connector: The center conductor of radio cable is usually thicker (in the TV connector the center conductor is used to plug into the socket, with the PL-259 or BNC/TNC, a separate pin is soldered to the wire). More importantly is impedence match. Radio cable and antennas of the type used on marine VHF is designed at 50 ohm impedence and the connectors must adhere to this standard or you will lose power. TV coax and connectors are 75 ohm and therefore a mismatch.
One quick added note: the UHF and BNC/TNC connectors need to be matched to the type cable you're using (such as RG-8X) so that everything fits properly. PL-259s in particular are made in many different cable sizes.
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Wires Through The Deck
Gary and all,
The advice that Bill Cochrane gave is excellent. It is far beyond that which I could try to give. It is very obvious to me that Bill, along with several other members of this board REALLY know the fine print of the subject.
Through the years, I have noticed and realized the difference between speaking in generalities to a newbie (weren't we all at one time) and speaking in detailed professionalism.
When someone replies to another's post, unless everything is completely spelled out by the poster, the responder usually replies to the post as he reads it. Sight unseen, he tends to give a general answer to the picture in his mind of what the problem is.
Here's a case in point of how things can innocently go awry. To help you understand how to break the coax mast run, I mentioned that the connection is *SIMILAR* to the connector you hook up your TV to the wall cable outlet. By no means was I trying to tell you to use cable TV fittings. That was my fault, again speaking in generalities.
Hardly any reader, until you specified, knew what unit you were wiring, what is the cable diameter in the mast, is it shielded or not, etc, etc. Many other boat owners read what is posted and answered and could falsely apply a solution for another's specific problem to their own personal problem. How does the saying go? "Don't assume anything".
Well, with the advice that Bill gave you, you're well on your way in the right direction. Thanks Bill.
Good luck,
O J
The advice that Bill Cochrane gave is excellent. It is far beyond that which I could try to give. It is very obvious to me that Bill, along with several other members of this board REALLY know the fine print of the subject.
Through the years, I have noticed and realized the difference between speaking in generalities to a newbie (weren't we all at one time) and speaking in detailed professionalism.
When someone replies to another's post, unless everything is completely spelled out by the poster, the responder usually replies to the post as he reads it. Sight unseen, he tends to give a general answer to the picture in his mind of what the problem is.
Here's a case in point of how things can innocently go awry. To help you understand how to break the coax mast run, I mentioned that the connection is *SIMILAR* to the connector you hook up your TV to the wall cable outlet. By no means was I trying to tell you to use cable TV fittings. That was my fault, again speaking in generalities.
Hardly any reader, until you specified, knew what unit you were wiring, what is the cable diameter in the mast, is it shielded or not, etc, etc. Many other boat owners read what is posted and answered and could falsely apply a solution for another's specific problem to their own personal problem. How does the saying go? "Don't assume anything".
Well, with the advice that Bill gave you, you're well on your way in the right direction. Thanks Bill.
Good luck,
O J