Problem with cockpit drainage in Typhoons?

Lang · Post by **Lang** » Apr 4th, '06, 06:07

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone out there have experienced problems with slow draining cockpit thru holes on typhoons?

The drain holes on Eleanor have been giving me quite alot of problems. It gets completely plugged up quite regulary. I have taken out the hoses, cleaned them out, put them back. Then it works ok for a month or so.

I was caught in heavy weather while sailing solo recently and cockpit was flooding up at the tiller base. Had to bail with sponge while holding the tiller in very choppy seas. It was a uncomfortable 6 hours for me.

Now I am serious about fixing the problem.

My current setup now is a 3/4" thru hole from cockpit floor, clamp on soft hose, clamp other end of soft hose to elbow, elbow connect to valve, then valve to thru hole on hull.

The hose is bent and there is an elbow because the cockpit holes and thru hull holes were not aligned. Does anyone know why it was designed in this way?

I am thinking about increasing the thru holes from 3/4" to 1" or 1 1/2", and making it a straight down connection from cockpit floor to thru hull. To do that, I will need to drill a new hole in the hull, almost straight down from cockpit drain hole.

I havent discovered how to post the pictures yet, but I will soon. In the meantime, I would appreciate suggestions and comments on fixing the problem.

Cheers,
Lang
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Didereaux · Post by **Didereaux** » Apr 4th, '06, 06:18

What you describe is in the top 5 list(maybe #1) production faults of Cape Dorys'(in fact most production boats, especially of that era. The 25s with their large companionway(early 25s had no bridgedeck) that is lower than the motorwell access can be almost sunk in her berth when the drains plug, especially down here where 4"+ rains are not uncommon.

I agree that the only real solution is bite the bullet and enlarge those drains, 2" is not to large. One can always fantasize clubbing the old seacocks(read dangerous gatevalves)the bejeezus out of the guy who ordered those tiny drain sizes and gate valves.

g'Luk

Angela and Tom · Post by **Angela and Tom** » Apr 4th, '06, 10:06

We had the same problem on our Ty. We kept a small plunger (4" diameter, I think) on board and used it when the drains got sluggish. Once it even sucked out a big wad of pine needles, oak leaves and assorted debris that was good and stuck. Give it a try that for awhile if you haven't already--you shouldn't need to do it very often. Much cheaper and easier than drilling new holes and refitting hoses and seacocks.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Apr 5th, '06, 12:11

Yes, try a plunger,(plumbers force cup). Its amazing what gets caught in those hoses. I've seen old, black,half decomposed leaves come out. Also have seen insect remains, beginnings of yellow jacket hive, a cigarette filter and a piece of cellophane. ??? One guy was using household tubing and rather than making a soft bend, the tubing kinked and restricted the flow.

I've power blasted the drains with water from both ends and have even used compressed air.

Good luck,
O J

sloopjohnl · Post by **sloopjohnl** » Apr 5th, '06, 18:40

if your hoses are kinking try using more rigid hose with a wire spiral embedded in it. that will keep the hose from collapsing. a small plastic or brass grate used for shower drains would help to keep some debris out of the hoses.

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Apr 5th, '06, 19:34

We used the plunger too. Give it a few slogs even if it doesn't seem plugged. The other thing I would do is dive on the through hulls with a butter knife or something of that sort. There is very little room at the outside of the through hull fitting. Just a couple of small barnacles will make a big difference in the way things drain. When I was sailing the TY I spent a lot of time in the auto parts store looking for the perfect piece of pre bent radiator hose. There must be a hose that makes just the right bend to fit even if you needed to cut off some of the length. I think I gave up on the quest when we bought the bigger boat. It would be a nobel undertaking if someone could find the right bend and then post a NAPA part number. That is if Typhoons of different years have the same configuration. It is a weak point in the design. Then again if that is all we have to complain about... Spring is here, Steve.

OPaulB · Post by **OPaulB** » Apr 5th, '06, 19:52

I just recently replaced the hose on my Alberg22. I did exactly that, went to a auto parts store and picked out a pre bent hose that was almost perfect. Granted, I still had to trim it, but it worked great!

Lang · Post by **Lang** » Apr 6th, '06, 04:39

To all you great people out there,

First of all, thanks for all the suggestions. I had discussed this problem with our local boatyard operator here. We think that there is barnacle growth in the valve or in the elbow... barnacles are a big problem here. They start growing on bronze props within a week. We always try to paint antifoul on the inside of thru hulls.

Well, I have tried pressure flushing with water from cockpit and underhull, also have taken out the hose and clean out the seacocks completely. The problem seems to come back after a month or so. Yeah, the plungger technique is new to me.

I have just ordered the parts from West Marine, 2x 1 1/2" flush head marelon thru hull, 2x 1 1/2" mushroom bronze thru hull. I am going ahead with making them bigger and straight down. I will be looking for those radiator hoses soon.

Rough estimate of material cost is $200. I will be doing the work myself, trying to keep down overall cost. I am on sabbatical now, so it is a good time for me to fix all the little things.

Would you guys be interested to know how it goes when I launch her again?

Cheers,
Lang

Dan & Pat · Post by **Dan & Pat** » Apr 6th, '06, 07:56

Lang,

When I got my CD 25 onto the trailer for the first time last weekend, there was enough water in the bilges to nearly flatten the tires.

We found the drains next to the keel had been completely blocked with barnicles and mud. A coathanger from the bottom, followed by a blast from a pressure washer, and we had a trickle. Sure enough, the clog went from the drains in the cockpit through the valve, and the entire hose below. It was an hour of Poke and Spray before we got the stbd side cleared.

The port side was another story, as it included the VERY CLOGGED sink drain as well. I tried the plunger then opted to use straight Clorox. After a few minutes it started to clear a alittle, then finally I was able to flush it out with Drano

Whatever re-engineering you decide on, don't omit a seacock valve. Adding a through-hull fitting without some way of closing it off in an unforseen emergency situation, is just plain dangerous.

RC James · Post by **RC James** » Apr 6th, '06, 15:09

..... is a quick and easy barnacle remover. I use it every couple of months when the drains start to slow.. Just remember to pour SLOWLY and directly into the scupper......It will certainly remove the patina off any green brass fixtures .... Hmmmmmm..Wonder if I could shine the portholes up? Nah, better not. Just something else to keep bright, and the woodwork is enough.
Just remember to use this stuff judiciously. It is ACID, after all, and can mess up your wood, fiberglass, and skin. Always follow it with a good thorough washdown w/fresh water.

RC

Greg Ross · Post by **Greg Ross** » Apr 9th, '06, 12:36

The images below show how IRIE is plumbed, as you see there is no straight line outward and you therefore must induce bends. And going without a ThruHull valves sounds very foolhardy to me. The arrangement here uses wire reinforced hose so it holds its' shape. I've been pooped with white water over the stern and I was amazed at how quickly these seemingly small scuppers carried the water away.
Using an elbow in between lengths of hose gives a hard surface for critters to latch onto and makes it next to impossible to polk anything through in case you have crud build-up, and definitely grills or grates are needed to strain out at least the big stuff.
The Stbd. Drain
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... pDrain.JPG
The port Drain
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... pDrain.JPG
Other plumbing just for interest, Vented Loops;
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... ingWeb.JPG
Source of the other Plumbing, a slightly modified Jabsco Head;
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... eadWeb.JPG
Stern Trim while we're into "show and tell" Lazarette Hatch, etc;
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... rimWeb.JPG
My lovely IRIE at the Dock
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1 ... iewWeb.JPG

Lang · Post by **Lang** » Apr 16th, '06, 05:39

Hey Greg,

The pictures you sent were great. They showed the improvements the builders made in latter typhoons.

Yes, I am not planning to install the seacocks. It is easy to buy and install them later if needed. Will see if Eleanor sinks without them...

Cheers,
Lang

Lang · Post by **Lang** » May 2nd, '06, 22:39

Hi,

Eleanor's cockpit drainage system is now 1 1/2". We launched her last Friday and sailed her around in slightly choppy waters for an afternoon. Her cockpit drains are working very well now. Pretty sure she will be okay without the valves.....

Trying to submit a small picture of Eleanor here. Hope it works.
Have a good one.

[img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Lau%20Heng%20Lan\My%20Documents\My%20Pictures\Img0022\DSCN1548.mod.tif[/img]

The Cape Dory Board

Problem with cockpit drainage in Typhoons?

Problem with cockpit drainage in Typhoons?

That's in the top 5 list...

Try a plunger

Try A Plunger

Radiator Hose

Parts ordered...

Don't forget a valve!

EZ On-Off Hull cleaner......

The 1985 Factory Scupper Drain Arrangement

Thanks for the pictures

Eleanor launch last week.