We had a helluva blow here last Saturday and the boat took a serious pounding against the dock. I lost about three ft of port toe/rub rail. Rather than replace the whole thing, I'd like to cut a new piece and lap it in. Anyone have a pattern handy?
Anyone with experience in this? Also, the guy at Edensaw woods recommended Inoko wood as a good and far less expensive replacement than teak with similar grain appearance, but I heard this too cracks. Ipie is too hard and chews up bits and blades. Any help here would be appreciated....
Toe/Rub Rail damaged
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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chasn_sunset
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 01:01
- Location: Chase'n Sunset
CD25 #484
Poulsbo, WA
Toe/Rub Rail damaged
Dan P.
rub rail repair
Dan,
I lost 4 feet or so of rub rail during hurricane Ophelia last year and replaced the small section with teak bought from a regional supplier. There's lots more in the archives which is where I got some of my info but here's what I did:
1) Filled damaged screw holes with West System epoxy and filler after prep
2) Sanded
3) Cut scarf at very deep angle on either side of damaged section with hand saw. Cut them so that new piece will cover the joints and a well placed screw near the joint will serve as an effective clamp against the joint and hull after epoxying.
4) Cut new teak and drilled pilot holes, drilling the pilot holes a bit bigger in the fiberglass. Drilled bung holes with tapered bottoms to accommodate screw head.
5) The assembly was a bit tricky, and took some concentration. The joints have to be epoxied without making a huge mess and the screws and back of rub rail have to be bedded.
6) When rail was screwed in place, epoxied bungs.
7) Waited for everything to cure, and cut ends of bungs with my jigsaw. Other methods were listed but I had my saw and it worked really well. Used hand plane to match shape of existing rub rail. Sanded and cetoled. Be very careful in the shaping/sanding phase. You can easily remove too much wood.
Hope I didn't miss anything here, hopefully some of the more seasoned folks will chime in. I'm happy with the results and it was not a difficult repair.
Good Luck,
Chase
I lost 4 feet or so of rub rail during hurricane Ophelia last year and replaced the small section with teak bought from a regional supplier. There's lots more in the archives which is where I got some of my info but here's what I did:
1) Filled damaged screw holes with West System epoxy and filler after prep
2) Sanded
3) Cut scarf at very deep angle on either side of damaged section with hand saw. Cut them so that new piece will cover the joints and a well placed screw near the joint will serve as an effective clamp against the joint and hull after epoxying.
4) Cut new teak and drilled pilot holes, drilling the pilot holes a bit bigger in the fiberglass. Drilled bung holes with tapered bottoms to accommodate screw head.
5) The assembly was a bit tricky, and took some concentration. The joints have to be epoxied without making a huge mess and the screws and back of rub rail have to be bedded.
6) When rail was screwed in place, epoxied bungs.
7) Waited for everything to cure, and cut ends of bungs with my jigsaw. Other methods were listed but I had my saw and it worked really well. Used hand plane to match shape of existing rub rail. Sanded and cetoled. Be very careful in the shaping/sanding phase. You can easily remove too much wood.
Hope I didn't miss anything here, hopefully some of the more seasoned folks will chime in. I'm happy with the results and it was not a difficult repair.
Good Luck,
Chase
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Toe and Rub Rail Replacement
Hi Dan,
I have done replacements like this many times. I have never used inoko wood, though. I'm not familiar with it.
Since you are only talking about three feet or so of repair, why not match the repair by using the same wood? (teak?)
Ipe (sp), ipie, or another name for it is ironwood, is a very dense, compact celled wood. It wears forever but is more difficult to work with. Use carbide tipped blades when working with it.
I don't know if you'll need a pattern. Measure the width and thickness of both the toerail and the rubrail, then rip to dimensions plus add a little more to allow for finish sanding.
If your toe/rub rails are originally one piece, scarf them where you have to. If they were originally installed in sections,it might do well to start the repair at one of the original scarf joints. Try to stagger the positions of the rub and toe joints. Don't have both of them together.
You most likely have a 45° scarf on the original joint. You can reproduce this same joint easily with a miter saw. Check the scarf angle with a protractor first, to cut complimentary angles.
If you consider the hull curve too severe for the wood you are using, you can steam bend it to ease conformity. Steam boxes are hard to come by, so wrap the full length of the new wood in damp bath towels and bridge the wood between two sawhorses or other such supports, preferably in the hot sunlight. Then put an appropiate weight on the center of the span to create an arc.
Seal the hidden back of the wood, as well as the end grains. Use bedding compound between the new wood and the hull, as well as to the scarf joints. Double fasten on either side of the joint. Predrill the repair for new fasteners. Then drill out halfway through for matching wood plugs to hide the screw heads.
That's the way I've been doing them. I'm sure that I probably have forgotten to mention something important. Hopefully, someone will add to this.
Good luck with your project.
O J
I have done replacements like this many times. I have never used inoko wood, though. I'm not familiar with it.
Since you are only talking about three feet or so of repair, why not match the repair by using the same wood? (teak?)
Ipe (sp), ipie, or another name for it is ironwood, is a very dense, compact celled wood. It wears forever but is more difficult to work with. Use carbide tipped blades when working with it.
I don't know if you'll need a pattern. Measure the width and thickness of both the toerail and the rubrail, then rip to dimensions plus add a little more to allow for finish sanding.
If your toe/rub rails are originally one piece, scarf them where you have to. If they were originally installed in sections,it might do well to start the repair at one of the original scarf joints. Try to stagger the positions of the rub and toe joints. Don't have both of them together.
You most likely have a 45° scarf on the original joint. You can reproduce this same joint easily with a miter saw. Check the scarf angle with a protractor first, to cut complimentary angles.
If you consider the hull curve too severe for the wood you are using, you can steam bend it to ease conformity. Steam boxes are hard to come by, so wrap the full length of the new wood in damp bath towels and bridge the wood between two sawhorses or other such supports, preferably in the hot sunlight. Then put an appropiate weight on the center of the span to create an arc.
Seal the hidden back of the wood, as well as the end grains. Use bedding compound between the new wood and the hull, as well as to the scarf joints. Double fasten on either side of the joint. Predrill the repair for new fasteners. Then drill out halfway through for matching wood plugs to hide the screw heads.
That's the way I've been doing them. I'm sure that I probably have forgotten to mention something important. Hopefully, someone will add to this.
Good luck with your project.
O J
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chasn_sunset
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 01:01
- Location: Chase'n Sunset
CD25 #484
Poulsbo, WA
Thanks All!
Great suggestions, I think I can save a bunch of money over the insurance claim. Might even get to buy a new mainsail...
Dan
Dan
Dan P.
Last year I built a new dorade box from white oak for Linda Jean. I finished it with cetol light then cetol gloss. It turned out beautiful.
For my money, white oak is far superior to teak for all on-deck applications on a cape dory. It's about 1/3 to 1/4 the price per board foot, is rot resistent and strong as can be, will not beat up your tools, is easily glued and when finished as I described above it doesn't have that muddy dark orange color to it.
I realize this won't help with a partial rub-rail replacement since the color contrast would be dramatic but I like to get on the soap-box now and then.
Good luck
For my money, white oak is far superior to teak for all on-deck applications on a cape dory. It's about 1/3 to 1/4 the price per board foot, is rot resistent and strong as can be, will not beat up your tools, is easily glued and when finished as I described above it doesn't have that muddy dark orange color to it.
I realize this won't help with a partial rub-rail replacement since the color contrast would be dramatic but I like to get on the soap-box now and then.
Good luck
Mark Abramski
Plugging screw holes
When I plugged the screw holes for the rub and toe rails in my CD 25 I used fiberglass plugs made from fiberglass fishing arrows and West epoxy. I know for sure that it goes clear though and has a good bond, plus fibre structure. The arrows are available from any complete gun/hunting/sports and field shop and one can get a lot of plugs from one arrow.
Skip
Skip
Bungs
Skip, I always felt using wood bungs not only match the surrounding wood but also provide somewhat easy access to the hardware,(screw) in the event you need to get at it for some reason in the future. Fiberglass bungs,epoxied in place would be a bitch to remove and in doing so probably cause much damage to the wood around it. Methods become traditional for a reason.IMO.
Mark, I have to agree with you concerning white oak. I replaced my bowsprit with 1/4 sawn and a teak oil stain,(Zar I think) and the color matched perfectly. Only a professor of wood grain would notice it was not teak.
________
Hawaii Dispensary
Mark, I have to agree with you concerning white oak. I replaced my bowsprit with 1/4 sawn and a teak oil stain,(Zar I think) and the color matched perfectly. Only a professor of wood grain would notice it was not teak.
________
Hawaii Dispensary
Last edited by Ron M. on Feb 11th, '11, 05:16, edited 1 time in total.
Bungs
Hey Mark, I agree with you about not epoxying in wood or any other kind of bungs in the wood rails, but I was referring to filling the existing screw holes in the deck prior to replacing the wood rails. A touch of varnish works just fine for plugging the recesses in the wood rails with wood plugs.
Looks like I wasn't clear in specifying what I was referring to. Sorry.
Skip
Looks like I wasn't clear in specifying what I was referring to. Sorry.
Skip
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John Martin
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Jan 10th, '06, 18:10
- Location: CD31, 1985, #85, CARINA
Hey John,
Fishing arrows are made of solid fiberglass rather than tubular so that the weight (momentum) of the arrow will carry it below the surface with minimum deflection and power. They aren't even expensive. How cool is that huh? Don't let it be know that it's sailboat gear though lest West Marine or one of those starts stockin it, driving the price up!
Skip
Skip
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
White Oak
Mark and Ron,
Just a word or two agreeing with what you say about using white oak for boat projects. This is true especially where you need extra strength.
White oak has always been my choice when making stems, knees and ribs. I found it excellent for steam bending, too. Fresh, green oak bends a lot easier than air or kiln dried lumber.
A point of note. When fastening white oak, don't use galvanized screws. It is better to use silicon bronze fasteners. Galvanized screws create a chemical reaction and in time, will rot the oak.
I have to add that I have seen the work that Mark does. He is an excellent craftsman who maintains a beautiful CD 27.
Nuff said,
O J
Just a word or two agreeing with what you say about using white oak for boat projects. This is true especially where you need extra strength.
White oak has always been my choice when making stems, knees and ribs. I found it excellent for steam bending, too. Fresh, green oak bends a lot easier than air or kiln dried lumber.
A point of note. When fastening white oak, don't use galvanized screws. It is better to use silicon bronze fasteners. Galvanized screws create a chemical reaction and in time, will rot the oak.
I have to add that I have seen the work that Mark does. He is an excellent craftsman who maintains a beautiful CD 27.
Nuff said,
O J
YOU have the pattern
When you cut out the damaged section go into the good section just enough to end up with an undamaged profile. Use that piece to fabricate the replacement section.
Good luck
Good luck
Randy 25D Seraph #161