CD28- Seacock stuck in open position

[mac]

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.



mtaylor673@aol.com

[Joe Brown]

Hi, Mac: You're probably stuck with your situation until you haul out again. Disassembling a seacock while in the water is very unsafe, and that's what's needed to clean, grease and unfreeze it from the current stuck-open position. You can plug the seacock from the outside and do this, but it's not recommended. Until you do haul again, just be sure to close the intake valve on the head (toilet) fully after each use, especially when leaving the boat. Some head valves and a bit tricky; you have to be sure to press the lever ALL the way to shut it off. Is your discharge seacock also frozen open? Probably is. Hope this helps. - Joe Brown, Rockport, Maine

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

jobrown@mint.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Mac,
I would suggest you NOT rely on the small valve on the head to keep the sea out! It's to easy for someone to accidently leave it in the flush position, and that will sink the boat! Trust me, I know, a guest did just that to me at the start of the year(I had accidently left the thru hull open!), and within ten hours I had six inches of water over the cabin sole! Greasing a seacock while in the water is not difficult. That seacock you are looking at is, I believe, a 1" seacock. A one inch column of water streaming into the boat is impressive, but it will not sink you instantaeneously! To do it, you need a properly sized wooden damage control plug, take the valve apart, and when you get the core out, plug the flow with the plug(if you don't think the plug will fit properly, wrap a turn of towel around it, you will have a SLOW leak). Lightly polish the core with wet/dry sandpaper(200-280 crit is fine), grease it up with bicycle wheel bearing grease, and re-install it. The toughest time you will have is getting the bloody thing apart! If you are lucky, when you get the two nuts off, remove the two washers, and tap the shaft with a hammer or something, it will pop out. I say something because a hammer will probably NOT fit.(Place a nut back on the threaded shaft to protect the threads before you hit it!) If you are really lucky, you may be able to lever the core out, use an appropriately sized piece of wood. At any rate, it can be done wet. Just plan it out, if need be, you can always stuff the core back in without doing anything to it, that will give you time to think about what to do next. In the end, DO NOT rely on that little flapper valve in the head mechanism. I think it's just to risky! FWIW!

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Tom Young]

You could also try this: Loosen the locknut and inner nut on the barrel of the seacock. Loosen the outer locknut until it protects the
threads of the stud. Next, tap the locknut(which will in effect tap the stud) until it forces the tapered barrel out of the body of the seacock a 1/16" or so, now see if you can turn the handle.
Don't get too carried away if it doesn't free up but it probably will. You will now have a working but leaking seacock. Some can be greased through a plug on the body. Either way, work the lever on and off and begin to tighten the inner nut until it still operates but stops leaking. Don't forget to tighten the locknut onto the inner nut. Maybe this will get you through until haulout for greasing the fitting.
Once you get a scare from a flooded toilet, you will use this seacock so often it will never freeze.



fish@mint.net

[Richard G]

If the prior advice does not produce positive results, then I would bite the bullet and haul the boat and fix the seacock now. Why wait and have the the constant question of whether the problem will grow worse or not. After all, the short term cost of hauling and launching again is a lot less than a much worse scenario later. What is peace of mind worth to you? Only my opinion of course.



Aldajon@aol.com

[Don Sargeant]

I agree with Dave's comments about the advisability of leaving the seacock open. It would be better, however, to put the bung in the thru-hull from the outside. The seacock will have two holes after you remove the valve. (I'm assuming we're talking about Spartan here}
I had the same situation when I got COQUINA, and was able to free up the valve without removing it. I loosened the nuts, tapped the end (with a nut at the end for protection and a piece of hardwood between it and the hammer) until it was loose and then tightened it enough so it worked. I removed, sanded and greased it at the end of the season when the boat was hauled.
Good luck with this sticky problem

Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D #189
Greenwich Cove

Mac,
I would suggest you NOT rely on the small valve on the head to keep the sea out! It's to easy for someone to accidently leave it in the flush position, and that will sink the boat! Trust me, I know, a guest did just that to me at the start of the year(I had accidently left the thru hull open!), and within ten hours I had six inches of water over the cabin sole! Greasing a seacock while in the water is not difficult. That seacock you are looking at is, I believe, a 1" seacock. A one inch column of water streaming into the boat is impressive, but it will not sink you instantaeneously! To do it, you need a properly sized wooden damage control plug, take the valve apart, and when you get the core out, plug the flow with the plug(if you don't think the plug will fit properly, wrap a turn of towel around it, you will have a SLOW leak). Lightly polish the core with wet/dry sandpaper(200-280 crit is fine), grease it up with bicycle wheel bearing grease, and re-install it. The toughest time you will have is getting the bloody thing apart! If you are lucky, when you get the two nuts off, remove the two washers, and tap the shaft with a hammer or something, it will pop out. I say something because a hammer will probably NOT fit.(Place a nut back on the threaded shaft to protect the threads before you hit it!) If you are really lucky, you may be able to lever the core out, use an appropriately sized piece of wood. At any rate, it can be done wet. Just plan it out, if need be, you can always stuff the core back in without doing anything to it, that will give you time to think about what to do next. In the end, DO NOT rely on that little flapper valve in the head mechanism. I think it's just to risky! FWIW!

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

don@cliggott.com

[Neil Gordon]

WD-40 might free it up so you can close it.

I wouldn't vote for taking a seacock apart with the boat in the water.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Lyn Heiges]

Mac,

I have to agree with both Neil Gordon and Richard G.

If you have a removable impeller assembly on your knotmeter (which has the "dummy plug" for insertion when you take the impeller assembly out) take it out and quickly re-insert the impeller (or put the "dummy plug" in). This will give you visual knowledge as to what the water-rush scene is when you have a "hole-in-the bottom" unless it is one of the newer Standard Communications impeller assemblies which has a cover which "pops" in.

To fix the seacock will only take a "half-haul" where they can keep the boat on the slings while it is lubed and most yards will charge a minimal fee for the half-haul. They don't want you to sink as they want to haul you next bottom-paint time!

Good Luck,
Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD (#307)

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Bill]

Hi, Mac: You're probably stuck with your situation until you haul out again. Disassembling a seacock while in the water is very unsafe, and that's what's needed to clean, grease and unfreeze it from the current stuck-open position. You can plug the seacock from the outside and do this, but it's not recommended. Until you do haul again, just be sure to close the intake valve on the head (toilet) fully after each use, especially when leaving the boat. Some head valves and a bit tricky; you have to be sure to press the lever ALL the way to shut it off. Is your discharge seacock also frozen open? Probably is. Hope this helps. - Joe Brown, Rockport, Maine

I have loosened up seacocks while in the water by forcing a new kitchen sponge into the thru hull from the outside to limit the inflow of water. Never totally remove the barrel from the seacock but you should be able to tap it back per earlier responses and use wd40 to work it free. Use trailer axle grease or other waterproof grease to make it work. Before you begin, clean the outside of the valve with a wire brush to remove corrosion then soak it for several days with penetrating oil to make it easier to disassemble.

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

wsandifer@cdicorp.com

[Joe Brown]

Mac and the others: Just one thought on th8s subject of stuck-open head seacocks. The valve on the toilet could of course fail and with the seacock stuck open, trouble's. I know it sounds crazy, but I've always carried a tennis ball on the boats I owned, in my emergency kit. If a head seacock is stuck open and the head valve itself fails, you can suck the tennis ball into the head with the discharge lever. It will keep water out until you find a more permanent solution. It would be tricky to get the ball out again, but that's better than losing the boat. I know of two boats that sunk in San Diego because of just this problem.

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

joebrown@mint.net

[Mac / success! thanks to]

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

Thanks to all of you for your responces. After reading all of the messages I decided to go ahead and try to loosen the seacock. As many of you suggested I loosened the lock nut as well as the inner nut about 1/4 turn. I then began tapping the end opposite of the handle. At the same time I began to apply mild pressure to the handle in the direction that I wanted it to go. This took more time than I expected but finally the handle turned. I then retightened the nuts,but the seacock became stuck again. I repeated the process once more this time giving more movement to the handle before I secured the nuts. This worked!! The valve weeped only a tiny drop or so during the process. Many thanks to all of you for your input.



Mtaylor@aol.com

[Don Sargeant]

If the valve has no grease, the barrel will be either stuck or loose -- the taper makes it very easy to jam if it's dry. Bronze is pretty soft stuff so it's important to get some kind of lubricant in there or you will gall the surfaces. Spartan sells a lapping compound to rematch the surfaces if that becomes a problem.
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~

Just bought my first Cape Dory - CD28. Launched her last week and THEN discovered that the seacock at the toilet is stuck in the open position. The plastic pump for the toilet is acting as the water shut off (I think). I need some advise about loosening the stuck valve while in the water. Where the boat is located at the moment I cannot haul her without hiring a crane. I hope that someone can tell me how to do this safely.

I am new to the Cape Dory and this is my first boat of this size. All advice welcome.

Thanks to all of you for your responces. After reading all of the messages I decided to go ahead and try to loosen the seacock. As many of you suggested I loosened the lock nut as well as the inner nut about 1/4 turn. I then began tapping the end opposite of the handle. At the same time I began to apply mild pressure to the handle in the direction that I wanted it to go. This took more time than I expected but finally the handle turned. I then retightened the nuts,but the seacock became stuck again. I repeated the process once more this time giving more movement to the handle before I secured the nuts. This worked!! The valve weeped only a tiny drop or so during the process. Many thanks to all of you for your input.

don@cliggott.com