Spinnakerphobia

Discussions about Cape Dory, Intrepid and Robinhood sailboats and how we use them. Got questions? Have answers? Provide them here.

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Dick Barthel
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Spinnakerphobia

Post by Dick Barthel »

I was just reading an article on the Freedom 25 in the latest Good Old Boat and I came across this quote:

"Sadly, many casual sailors view hoisting a spinnaker as an action akin to going to sleep on a railroad track."

Truthfully, I fall into that category, especially never having been on a boat where a spinnaker has been flying. I'd be interested to hear from some on our board who can remember their first experiences with a spinnaker.

Warren, did you ever get around to having yours installed this year? I know you were seriously considering it.

Thanks for any responses.

Happy New Year to all :D

Dick
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Warren Kaplan
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Re: Spinnakerphobia

Post by Warren Kaplan »

...
Warren, did you ever get around to having yours installed this year? I know you were seriously considering it.

Thanks for any responses.

Happy New Year to all :D

Dick

Dick,

I did have it installed but I never actually deployed it. Much of the time there were unfavorable conditions (at least when I was sailing SQN) for my very first deployment. Then one day came along when I was solo sailing that was perfect. I got out all the spinnaker sheets and the the spinnaker in the ATN sock. I hooked up all the gear. I was in the enclosed area of West Harbor in Oyster Bay on a Wednesday so nobody was around. I turned SQN onto the course I wanted and pushed the button on "Mr. Solo" my Raymarine 2000+ tillerpilot. I was all the way at the north end of West Harbor with the wind out of the north, ready for a nice run in a southerly direction. The Gods were in a mood for a joke. As soon as I engaged the tiller pilot, the wind went dead for about 2 minutes. Then the usually prevailing SW seabreeze filled in with a roar. It went from 0 to about 15 knots in about 10 minutes. I was headed in the wrong direction and I was all the way up on the wrong side of the bay. It meant going all the way back down and turning around and by that time it was very windy. So I never launched.

Back to your original point. I don't think people are as afraid of spinnakers as some think. Although "fear" certainly plays a part. I think there is a lot of gear involved in launching a spinnaker, and many people just don't want to take the time to deal with the blocks and lines of halyards, sheet blocks and sheets, downhaul blocks and the downhaul. For some its a pain in the ass. And of course the spinnaker has to be watched and kept trimmed.

Everyone should read Andy Denmark's Primer on using a Cruising Spinnaker. It goes a very long way in debunking all the fears when you see how easy it really can be.

I guarantee ya' that I'll be launching mine next season...even if it means getting my leg caught up in the spinnaker halyard and going to the masthead with the sail! :D
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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John Ring
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Location: CD36 #135 Tiara, MMSI:338141386

Chutes

Post by John Ring »

<img width="540" src="http://www.yachttantalus.com/scenery%20 ... gchute.jpg">

<img width="540" src="http://www.yachttantalus.com/tempstuff/chutetop.jpg">

Flying a symmetrical chute with a pole (race rig) can be a real handful; lots of things to go wrong. Flying an asymmetrical cruising chute with a sock (above) is more like flying a big genoa.

I love my asymmetrical. It can be just the ticket for getting a cruising boat downwind in light air.

Best,
John
CD28 #241 Tantalus
www.yachttantalus.com
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Carter Brey
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spinnakerphobia

Post by Carter Brey »

I totally agree with John. An asym with a dousing sock is easy to singlehand, and can make a dismal downwind tack into something akin to fun. Even if the wind dies, it puts some color into your life.

Speaking of Warren-- this past June I set out to meet him at Oyster Bay from my home port of City Island, about 15 nm to the SW. It was a hot, sunny day with a desultory breeze not more than 6-8 knots out of-- guess what-- the SW.

I left the mooring with the asymmetrical rigged, and as soon as I got clear of the anchorage I popped the chute open. I rigged my preventer, put a cold beer in the lifeline hanger, put on suntan lotion, and watched the shipping go by. I made the 15 miles in exactly three hours.

For my return the next day, the wind came around 180 degrees, out of the NE, grey and blustery. Once I got clear of Oyster Bay, I sailed on a reach up to Greenwich, CT, then rigged the chute and enjoyed a screaming broad reach all the way home, now and then showing well over 6 knots on the log, which is damned good on a full-keel boat with an 18-foot WL.

I ran into a squall off City Island and got some good practice getting the chute down in a hurry. It's a powerful sail and can bury your rail or broach you in a heartbeat if you are inattentive or indecisive in heavier air.

I strongly recommend using snatch blocks attached to a mast collar to run the sock control lines aft if you singlehand this sail. It's also nice to run the tack line aft for fine control in medias res. I ran mine through furling leads to a cam cleat on the coaming board. Andy Denmark turned me and Warren on to the idea of rigging a 3-part purchase at the stemhead for controlling the tack in heavy air.

Patience and care in setting up and reeving the sheets before hoisting is crucial; practicing with a friend on a calm day is fun and reinforces the drill.

Just do it!

Carter
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Mike Wainfeld
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Post by Mike Wainfeld »

Dick-I had sailed a few times on a Lightning with a Spinnaker, but since i mostly singlehand, I could not conceive of flying one solo. The asymmetrical is the answer. Not only is it the answer, it is definitely the BEST sail I ever bought, and the BEST upgrade I've had for My Typhoon. It truly makes your sailing twice as much fun. No more poking along downwind; you'll actually go out looking for any deep angle to set it. The Asymmetrical can also be set on a beam reach. Its an excellent reaching sail! A few recent posts asked about light air headsails; but I think that a working jib and a Flasher may be my best sail combo, especially since I use a hank-on jib. As Carter noted above, and I have also found, The boat balances beautifully with this sail. I can tie off the tiller, and just sit back, or even walk up to the bow and watch it fly. The basic rig is real simple, requiring only a spinnaker halyard set above the forestay, two blocks at the stern, and one at the bow. And with much help and advice from Carter, Andy, and others on this Board, it was easy to set up.
All that said, the first couple of times I tried to fly it were somewhat chaotic, and I'm sure humorous, for anyone watching. But with some practice, planning, and pre-visualization it became easy. The forces involved are also much less on a Ty than on a larger boat. But I always did it singlehanded.
Also as noted above, you must pay attention to the windspeed as the apparent wind is less on a deep reach. The one time I had a wrap was when I left the sail up too long, and then tried to jibe it.
So Take the plunge! This sail is really a lot of fun.
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Mike Wainfeld
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Go for it!

Post by Mike Wainfeld »

Dick-I had sailed a few times on a Lightning with a Spinnaker, but since i mostly singlehand, I could not conceive of flying one solo. The asymmetrical is the answer. Not only is it the answer, it is definitely the BEST sail I ever bought, and the BEST upgrade I've had for My Typhoon. It truly makes your sailing twice as much fun. No more poking along downwind; you'll actually go out looking for any deep angle to set it. The Asymmetrical can also be set on a beam reach. Its an excellent reaching sail! A few recent posts asked about light air headsails; but I think that a working jib and a Flasher may be my best sail combo, especially since I use a hank-on jib. As Carter noted above, and I have also found, The boat balances beautifully with this sail. I can tie off the tiller, and just sit back, or even walk up to the bow and watch it fly. The basic rig is real simple, requiring only a spinnaker halyard set above the forestay, two blocks at the stern, and one at the bow. And with much help and advice from Carter, Andy, and others on this Board, it was easy to set up.
All that said, the first couple of times I tried to fly it were somewhat chaotic, and I'm sure humorous, for anyone watching. But with some practice, planning, and pre-visualization it became easy. The forces involved are also much less on a Ty than on a larger boat. But I always did it singlehanded.
Also as noted above, you must pay attention to the windspeed as the apparent wind is less on a deep reach. The one time I had a wrap was when I left the sail up too long, and then tried to jibe it.
So Take the plunge! This sail is really a lot of fun.
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Cathy Monaghan
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You just need to practice...

Post by Cathy Monaghan »

Hi Dick,

There's nothing to be afraid of, you just need to get out there and practice. Since you're a "newbie" to spinnaker use, only deploy it in light winds, 7-12 knots, until you've learned how to use it and feel comfortable with it. It's a beautiful sail and you'll be surprised at the boost it willl give you.

Here are some photos of Realization's cruising spinnaker.

http://www.photoworks.com/share/shareLa ... BFAC&cb=PW

Happy holidays,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
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Didereaux
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Dick, I followed Carters' advice and...

Post by Didereaux »

Dick,
I had the same concerns as you in regards to the 'chutes'. I followed Carters' advice last summer and rigged my existing downhaul to control the tack and brought the sheet through a boom-end snatchblock...like a charm for old slow less than agile types such as myself.

Will rig Andy's handy-billy this spring, just in case I miss that rising wind and need a little more 'muscle'. All in all without reservation an assym on the smaller CD's is a doable single-handed.

It's especially good when you attach the tack to the downhaul and not the sheet! huh George? LOL There's a story behind that, but damned if I'm telling. heheh

g'Luk
Didereaux- San Leon, TX
last owner of CD-25 #183 "Spring Gail"
"I do not attempt to make leopards change their spots...after I have skinned them, they are free to grow 'em back or not, as they see fit!" Didereaux 2007
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Mike Raehl
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CD27 additional spinnaker question.....

Post by Mike Raehl »

The only time I have used my asym spinnaker was last season's final sail to winter storage in Waukegan, IL. I had rigged the sheets and tack line and hoisted the sail at the dock for practise so once on the Lake, things went fairly well. Unfortunately, wind at two knots required motor sailing to meet a time deadline at the marina.

Before the mast is stepped in the Spring, I need to refine how the spinnaker tack line will be configured. My question is where should the tack line run and how should it be attached to the stemhead? My CD27 stemhead has three holes for standing rigging and the forestay currently uses the middle hole. The roller furler drum extends over the forward and the aft holes in the stemhead. I also have a Danforth anchor suspended from the bow pulpit.

Should the tack line be attached forward or behind the forestay / furler drum? Should I move the forestay to either the forward or the aft holes in the stemhead for less chaffing? Does the tack line from the snatch block to the sail run inside or outside of the bow pulpit?

On a CD27, is the spinnaker halyard block at the masthead mounted above or below the forestay attachment?

As you can tell, I am attempting to visualize all this while sitting here in the den with the boat wrapped in plastic two hours away.
Mike Raehl
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Steve Laume
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Post by Steve Laume »

I have played with our drifter a few times this summer. It has usually been while short handed. The last time out was with my daughter who has very little experience and the wind had picked up a good bit before dowsing time. What a great ride we had out to Montauk! I was having her release the sheet while I lowered and gathered the sail. I started my part too early, not wanting the sail to flog about too much. When I took a wrap off the halyard winch that sail took off like a cat with it's tail on fire (not that I've seen many). Instant and nasty rope burn resulted in letting the whole thing fly and trolling the sail over board. It was easy to retrieve once it was in the water. Still not a recommended method I would say. I had asked my sail maker about socks (for the sail) last winter and he didn't think it would be necessary for a sail this size. Is it just a matter of practice? Should I be able to handle this single handed? I have always heard I should be blanketing the sail with the main to take it down. Should I head up and let her luff instead? This would eliminate the need to release the sheet while standing at the mast and going to the fore deck to lower and retrieve the sail. If you plan to stay on one point of sail do you always rig both sheets? It is a really fun sail to play with, but it has a lot of power not to be taken lightly. Sailing again today with spirited winds, Steve.
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Didereaux
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I don't know, but...

Post by Didereaux »

I certainly can't say I know this to be proper, but this is what I worked out. I get on the broadest reach I can, quite a bit short of a gybe though. I then haul in the sheet pretty tight. By that time the chute is only really catching wind in the front third, the rest is behind the main.

At that point I let out the tack line and the chute just folds back along its leech behind the main and you can grab a handful and while releasing the halyard haul it in. Happens pretty quickly and doesn't strain much.

Hey, I've only done this a few times now and in winds 10 knts or less, usually much less, so no guarantees...okay? ;)

g'Luk
Didereaux- San Leon, TX
last owner of CD-25 #183 "Spring Gail"
"I do not attempt to make leopards change their spots...after I have skinned them, they are free to grow 'em back or not, as they see fit!" Didereaux 2007
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Mike Wainfeld
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Asymmetrical rig

Post by Mike Wainfeld »

Mike- The tack should be forward of, and the halyard should be above the forestay. When the sail is jibed, it flies from one side, out in front of the boat, and sheeted in on the other. All sheets are outside the shrouds, and the lazy sheet is led in front of the forestay. My sail came with a dousing sock, which makes it much easier to bring down. This is probably even more important on a 30 ft boat, where the forces are that much stronger, and the sail is a lot bigger.
Will Angus
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Location: CD30 #252 Deltaville, VA

Post by Will Angus »

I grew up sailing and did a lot of cruising on the Chesapeake for years. I wanted to develop my skills, especially sail trim and spinnaker work, so?I bout a J24 and started racing. Not only that, but went in halves with my brother. My name is Will, and I?m (also)a racer. I?m sure a hush has fallen over this board and my fellow cruisers are blushing for me, but racing has dramatically improved my sailing skills. You not only fly the spinnaker, you fly it in front of 25 knot winds and do things called ?death Rolls? and you enjoy it (or pretend to).

My point is you might want to consider going racing and getting some new experiences. It worked for me and most yacht clubs are always looking for extra crew.
________
CH80
Last edited by Will Angus on Feb 13th, '11, 09:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Warren Kaplan
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Re: CD27 additional spinnaker question.....

Post by Warren Kaplan »

Mike Raehl wrote:The only time I have used my asym spinnaker was last season's final sail to winter storage in Waukegan, IL. I had rigged the sheets and tack line and hoisted the sail at the dock for practise so once on the Lake, things went fairly well. Unfortunately, wind at two knots required motor sailing to meet a time deadline at the marina.

Before the mast is stepped in the Spring, I need to refine how the spinnaker tack line will be configured. My question is where should the tack line run and how should it be attached to the stemhead? My CD27 stemhead has three holes for standing rigging and the forestay currently uses the middle hole. The roller furler drum extends over the forward and the aft holes in the stemhead. I also have a Danforth anchor suspended from the bow pulpit.

Should the tack line be attached forward or behind the forestay / furler drum? Should I move the forestay to either the forward or the aft holes in the stemhead for less chaffing? Does the tack line from the snatch block to the sail run inside or outside of the bow pulpit?

On a CD27, is the spinnaker halyard block at the masthead mounted above or below the forestay attachment?

As you can tell, I am attempting to visualize all this while sitting here in the den with the boat wrapped in plastic two hours away.
Mike,

My CD27 is set up like yours, with the furlex furler extending over the 3 holes on the stemhead, which means running the tackline up there can be a problem. A couple of solutions. First, Andy Denmark told me that even though you should try and run the tackline forward, it doesn't have to be. You can attach it to the double mooring cleats on the bow. If you intend to run the tackline back to the cockpit, you can attach a block at the mooring cleats when you need to use the spinnaker.

But here's a better solution...also from wise old Andy. Sometimes trying to adjust the tackline with the chute under load, ain't so easy. Mechanical advantage is always welcome when hauling on loaded sails. You may have to read this a time or two but it isn't complicated. The CD27 has two bow chocks way up forward. Those bow chocks have "keepers" the little bar that slides into the opposite hole to close the chock when a line is in it. Now, you will need a block to attach to the tack cringle on the chute. Take your tackline, make a good bowline in one end, and run the keeper of the port bow chock through the bowline and close and lock the chock. That securely attaches one end of the tackline to the chock. Then take the free end of the tackline and run it up thru the block attached to the tack cringle of the chute. After running the line thru that block, run it down towards the starboard bow chock. There you should attach another turning block to the closed keeper on that side. Run the line thru that block and then you can head it back to the cockpit on the starboard side. Obviously, if you want the tackline to run back to the cockpit on the port side the setup should be reversed. This effectively gives you a "bridle" attached to you sail and a 2:1 advantage when having to adjust it up or down. It also brings the control back forward and at least on my boat it seems to avoid the furlex furling drum .

If you REALLY want to go whole hog on this, you can make this modification. Instead of attaching the tackline to the port bow chock keeper with a bowline, put another block there. Get a very long tackline and attach it to a cleat back at the cockpit on the port side. Then run it up to the block at the port bow chock, then up thru the block at the tack cringle on the sail, then thru the block at the starboard bow chock and back to the cockpit cleat on the starboard side. Now you can control the height of the spinnaker tack by adjusting the line either on the starboard side of the cockpit or the port side. Nifty!

For my spinnaker halyard block I had the yard attach a spinnaker bale above the forestay at the level of the masthead. The block hangs from the spinnaker bale and is outside of everything.

If you have any questions ask me or ask Andy Denmark, as I'm sure he has forgotten more about spinnaker handling on his CD27 Rhiannon then I will ever know. :wink:
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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Mike Raehl
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Mike, Warren,

Post by Mike Raehl »

Got the picture... Thanks for detailed descriptions. Makes Spring launch seem that much closer. :)
Mike Raehl
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