Riding sail question

[Neil Gordon]

Knowing the difficulty of backing a Cape Dory and steering at the same time...

I need to back out of a slip where the prevailing wind takes the bow the wrong way. Because I'm on the leeward side of the finger, spring lines won't help. In light to moderate air, assistance in the form of a big shove of the bow to windward will work. But unassisted, it's more of a challenge.

Could I use a riding sail to compenate for the windage on the furled genoa and spin the stern downwind instead of the bow? I'm suggesting sheeting it in as I begin to back, letting the wind force the stern downwind and motoring out from there.

Comments?

[Didereaux]

Damn Neil, that sounds like an idea worth trying! I'm in the same boat, so to speak, about half the time the wind is on the beam backing out, and the bow heads towards the laundry house.

I noticed that when I stood as far aft as possible my size and girth did make a difference...but never put two and two together.

Seems one could hang a small rider off the stay lash the clew somewhere on the boom (which is centered anyways) and back out a lot more balanced.

Yes, definitely worth a try.

...and some ask why I haunt the BB's heh

thanks

[patturner]

It's worth trying I suppose, but I have found that the nature of the cutaway forefoot tends to result in the bow being affected much more by the pressure of the wind then the rest of the boat. This isn't a real
fix, but I usually let me wife take the helm when pulling the boat out
which allows me to tend to the bow of the boat as we're pulling out. If there's too much wind and the bow is being pushed back on to the dock/finger as we pull out I help keep it off by walking along with it, then pulling myself up and then walking along the side deck as I keep pushing off the piling at the end of the finger until we're clear. If the wind is from the opposite side (which happens) and is trying to push the bow away from the dock and into the boat that is only about 12" away (we share a big slip), I give the stern a big push in the right direction to start and then hold the bow in to the finger as we walk out jumping on again as the spreaders reach the end. Works for us and gives my wife more confidence at the wheel.

Don't know why a spring line wouldn't work in the situation you describe as long as you apply a little tension to the line from the get-go. I admit I haven't used this technique very often tho'.

Pat
________
Vaporgenie Reviews
________
Glass Bubblers

[Stan W.]

Because I'm on the leeward side of the finger, spring lines won't help.

Have you tried putting some kind of cushion at the corner of the finger and using it as a pivot point? I think a spring line running from the stern quarter could still work that way. Just let the boat back most of the way out of the slip before you snug it tight.

OOPS. I read "leeward side of finger" to mean "leeward side of slip" (yes I know I have seen your dock but I figured maybe you moved for the winter). Now I think a spring line run from the bow to the end of the finger might do the job. If you keep it taught by taking in the slack as you back out, the bow can't swing the wrong way. By the time the bow reaches the end of the finger hopefully some combination of wind, reverse throttle and rudder will have moved the stern in the proper direction and you can release the bow and throttle forward.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hey Neil, I think you should just try it. What have you got to lose? If it doesn't work, you'll be in the same situation that you're already used to -- bow heading off in the wrong direction. If it works, you're golden!

Good luck,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

PS: We use a Banner Bay Pointer anchor riding sail and really like it. (Have never used it to help in backing though.)

[Neil Gordon]

I noticed that when I stood as far aft as possible my size and girth did make a difference...

It's not girth... It's the number of sq. ft facing the wind. (Always try to keep the facing vs. abeam ratio greater than 1/1)

As for the riding sail, I was thinking of using some of the old main, since it's worn beyond repair and it might be nice to have a riding sail in any case. I'd capture the logo and sail # if I can.

Best experiment would be early next season when there are lots fewer boats in the slips, most importantly, my neighbor with the extra large protruding anchor/lifeline grabber.

(If this seems to work in concept, I suppose I might have to start with a larger riding sail and reduce from there as I experiment in various conditions.)

[slaume]

Being on a mooring all summer and then coming into a slip for my winter berth "I feel your pain". I had a choice and picked a north facing slip which I tie port side to. That makes me look very good in prevailing conditions. The exit is to the east. The wind anywhere from the north through SW heads the bow in the right direction and reversing makes the stern go the right way too. the riding sail seems like a very good idea. My only caution would be to make sure that it does not create too much leeway while or after after you have backed out. I guess by then you could apply forward power and gain steerage. I got myself into a situation this summer where I had backed out and cast off all lines but could not get the bow to come around with the use of forward and reverse bursts of power. I did a great job of controlling the boat between all the docked boats but could never get the bow quite far enough around to apply forward power and be on my way. All the time I was doing my jockeying the boat kept drifting to leeward. If I had had crew I might have sent someone to the bow to push off a piling. Lacking that solution and feeling a bit frustrated I let her drift to the end dock. This gave me a safe place to momentarily regroup and some sympathetic dock watchers gave the bow a good push and off I went. I will be practicing a bunch this winter and I may give the riding sail a try, Steve.

[Andy CD]

If you ahve a roller furling genny you might try unfurling a scrap of the genny and then backwinding it accordingly.

This would get your "effort" working for you on the right end of the boat and save you from having to rig and douse the riding sail each time.

Good luck.

[David van den Burgh]

I got myself into a situation this summer where I had backed out and cast off all lines but could not get the bow to come around with the use of forward and reverse bursts of power.

Steve,

I found myself in similarly tight quarters at the end of this season and finally decided not to fight the boat. I let the bow blow off, pointed Ariel's stern into the wind, and backed my way to clear water. Not the most elegant, to be sure, but with a strong wind - and, in this case, quite a bit of surge - it was the only practical way of salvaging the situation. Although CDs don't like to back straight, they don't have much choice when the wind is dead astern.

[Neil Gordon]

Now I think a spring line run from the bow to the end of the finger might do the job. If you keep it taught by taking in the slack as you back out, the bow can't swing the wrong way. By the time the bow reaches the end of the finger hopefully some combination of wind, reverse throttle and rudder will have moved the stern in the proper direction and you can release the bow and throttle forward.

That would work to keep the bow up, but depending on the wind direction, I have to keep the stern from going downwind into my neighbor's anchor. That means that I have to get clear of the slip. Otherwise, in the right conditions, I'd just hold the bow on the end of the finger and let the boat hang as if on a mooring.

It's particuarly difficult if the wind is coming from the stbd quarter... that puts the leeway directly towards my neighbor as I try getting the bow around to windward.

One strategy might be to hold the bow from my neighbor's anchor roller.

[Neil Gordon]

Hey Neil, I think you should just try it. What have you got to lose? If it doesn't work, you'll be in the same situation that you're already used to -- bow heading off in the wrong direction. If it works, you're golden!

Right. I'll also have a riding sail with the CD logo and my sail number on it.

[Neil Gordon]

If you ahve a roller furling genny you might try unfurling a scrap of the genny and then backwinding it accordingly.

Doesn't that just increase the effect that I'm trying to neutralize?

[Neil Gordon]

I got myself into a situation this summer where I had backed out and cast off all lines but could not get the bow to come around with the use of forward and reverse bursts of power.

That's one that I have to practice. I can't back all the way out to clear water because I have two turns to make and a fairly narrow slot that empties right into the busy area in front of the fuel dock.

[slaume]

The one good thing about our boats is you do not have to spin the wheel or throw the tiller back and forth like a mad man when giving forward and reverse bursts of power. It will not make any difference in reverse! It adds a calm to the whole situation. My father in law first told me to just leave the helm in the direction you want to go in forward. This was many years ago and I did not understand at the time. The point is that if you are stopped or moving very slowly in reverse the rudder has no effect. It is the prop that will turn you and it will be taking the stern to port. Neil I don't know if there is any chance of you choosing your slip but it could help your situation a great deal. It sounds like you come in starboard side to with your neighbor on your port. When you reverse it kicks your stern right towards those anchors! I would always go for a slip where you tie up port side to and the exit to open water is to starboard. This arrangement causes you to have to step over the life lines so it is not quite as convienent to get aboard. What it does do is make the prop walk, work for you. When you back out the stern WILL want to spin to port and face the bow towards open water. When coming back into your slip, your dock will be on the outside of your turn on the port side. If you make the swing and keep your bow very close to the end of your dock a bit of reverse will walk the stern in then you can proceed forward into your slip. Do consider yourself lucky that you are only dealing with anchors. The full keel boat down a few slips has to swing around a too large for the slip twin mega outboard with the props kicked up out of the water. It must be like skirting the jaws of death every time he comes in. I still like the riding sail idea, Steve.

[rtbates]

Neil:

Let me understand. You're on the lee or downwind side of the finger pier. Your bow is being blown downwind AWAY from the pier. And you don't want this to happen? Correct so far?
If I've got this wrong don't read any further.
If I 've got this correct, the answer is very simple. Run a line from the bow around some object on the finger and back to the bow. Now you have total control over the bows distance from the finger.
If alone, as I am often, simply run the line from the bow to the pier object back to the bow and along the deck to the cockpit.

randy 25D Seraph #161