Cutters and Double-Headsail Sloops, Particularly CD32 and 33

[Dean Abramson]

I am confused about which Cape Dorys are cutters and which are double-headsail sloops. For example, in the specs on this website, the 32 is shown as a sloop only; but I see that Catherine Monoghan's boat has two headsails and is referred to as "cutter-rigged." Catherine, was this a custom retrofit? Does "cutter-rigged" perhaps mean a double headsail sloop, as opposed to an actual cutter. I am no expert, but my (perhaps misguided) understanding is that on a cutter, the mast is further back. But glancing at the drawings of Cape Dorys 30 and up, it seems to me that the all have masts in the sloop position., although some have two headsails and are called cutters . I see where the 33 is mainly a sloop, but some were built as cutters; did these cutters have the mast in a different position?

Could someone give me the whole low-down on cutters and double-headsail sloops, particularly as it relates to Cape Dorys?

And can someone tell me how many 33s were cutters? Or is the answer "none" in actuality. In other words, could one retrofit a 33 or 32 with an inner forestay and have as much of a "cutter" as any Cape Dory is? Someone please spell all this out to me!

And while we are at it, how much do the two headsails (if both in use) help in light air. And how hard is it to tack a 32 or 33 with the inner stay in place?

And while we are at all of that, anyone want to chime in on the old debate about pros and cons of sloop vs. cutter (or double headsail sloop)? It would seem to me that a cutter (or double headsail sloop) with a detachable inner forestay would be the best of all worlds; are there any downsides to this arrangement? In such an arrangement, could one leave a sail hanked on the inner forestay while it was not attached, like maybe up against the lifelines, if one did not use a boom on the inner stay? And finally (yes there is an end), how much of a three ring circus would it be to tack a cutter with both headsails up, and no boom on the inner sail?

THANKS in advance!!

Dean

[Bill Goldsmith]

From Wikipedia.com:

A classic cutter is any sailing vessel with two or more head sails and a mast which is set further aft (to the rear of the vessel) than that of a sloop.

The term is English in origin and refers to a specific type of vessel, namely, "a small, decked ship with one mast and bowsprit, with a gaff mainsail on a boom, a square yard and topsail, and two jibs or a jib and a staysail." (Peter Kemp, editor, The Oxford Companion to Ships & the Sea; London: Oxford University Press, 1976; pp. 221-222.)

Technically there are no Cape Dory cutters. The masts are in the same location as a sloop, so any CDs with inner forestays are double headsail sloops or some similar terminology.

People associate the term cutter with any small sailboat that has more than one headsail. Even Cape Dory called its d.h.s. boats "cutters" in the sales materials.

Several weeks ago I passed another sailor close-by who was admiring my Cape Dory. He shouted: "Nice Cutter!" I said "Thanks."

Pros: More sail options. The staysail and a reefed main is fantastic when it's blowing like stink. The self tacking boom makes tacking quick and easy.

Cons: More gear to maintain. The self tacking boom makes the foredeck more hazardous and cluttered. Tacking the forward headsail can present challenges. (I have a genoa, not a yankee, so there is that much more sailcloth to get through the slot).

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi Dean,

The Cape Dory 32 was offered in either configutation, sloop or "cutter" (aka double-headsail sloop). Our CD32 was delivered as what Cape Dory referred to as a cutter from the factory.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[wihryd]

I am looking at two Cape Dorys that have double headails. I understand from a recept post that tacking presents a problem -- getting the jib around the inner forestay. Never having done such a thing -- having owned only sloops -- it strikes me as likely to be nearly impossible to get a genoa around the inner stay with any degree of grace and swiftness. In fact, one cutter owner told us that you have to partially furl the genny in order to pass it through the slot. Where we sail -- in the vicinity of Mt. Desert Island and, for example, Somes Sound -- one has to come about frequently. Would someone enlighten me as to how much of a problem tacking the jib presents? Also, in light of earlier postings, it strikes me that it might be a good idea to not rig the inner forestay at all, and just use the boat -- either a 31 or a 330 -- as a sloop. What would be the pros and cons of doing so. Has anyone does this and does it work? Thanks.

[Cathy Monaghan]

I am looking at two Cape Dorys that have double headails. I understand from a recept post that tacking presents a problem -- getting the jib around the inner forestay. Never having done such a thing -- having owned only sloops -- it strikes me as likely to be nearly impossible to get a genoa around the inner stay with any degree of grace and swiftness. In fact, one cutter owner told us that you have to partially furl the genny in order to pass it through the slot. Where we sail -- in the vicinity of Mt. Desert Island and, for example, Somes Sound -- one has to come about frequently. Would someone enlighten me as to how much of a problem tacking the jib presents? Also, in light of earlier postings, it strikes me that it might be a good idea to not rig the inner forestay at all, and just use the boat -- either a 31 or a 330 -- as a sloop. What would be the pros and cons of doing so. Has anyone does this and does it work? Thanks.

We have never had a problem tacking, jibing however is another matter. Sailing on the wind, Realization's yankee always travels through the slot without a problem. But sailing off the wind, especially in light air, we sometimes have to walk the yankee through since it tends to hang up on the inner forestay. In heavier winds it will usually go right through without any problem. But we have found that "timing" makes all the difference when jibing. Sail directly downwind then release the yankee and bring it over to the other side. Then finish the jibe and bring the main over. Anyway, if you do it this way, it'll have less of a tendency to hang up.

Hope this helps,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Scott MacCready]

I was wondering about this same topic this past week. I was being shown a CD30 "cutter" by the owner and I asked how he managed his head sails during a change in tack. He told me he uses his roller furler to shorten sail, completes the tack, then unfurls the genoa again. Seems like a lot of work expecially for a solo sailor. Plus, I'm sure there's another way since cutters have been around a lot longer than roller furling.

[Bill Goldsmith]

Loonsong is also a 32, but has a 110 genoa, not a yankee, so there is quite a bit more sailcloth to get through and around. Like Cathy, when the wind is blowing it generally tacks through the slot with no problem. Timing is everything. With a genoa the key is to begin pulling the lazy sheet a little earlier than you would with a single headsail sloop. That gets the clew in the vicinity of the inner forestay early in the tack, so the wind does not have a chance to blow the clew aft of the inner forestay. It is not really that hard. Also, don't go by stories from other "cutter" designs, because the size of the slot can make a big difference. I think the slot on the CD designs is pretty big. Other designs have much smaller slots, some larger. I have never had to roll in the genoa in order to tack.

Don't scotch the idea of the "cutter" just on the basis of the tacking issue, it's just a consideration worth noting. Also, if the wind is up and you are short tacking, that is where flying the staysail alone shows its beauty.

[salume]

With the club footed staysail and main we call that our auto tacking mode. Ideal for playing around the mooring fields or short tacking up a channel. Just put the helm over whenever you feel like it and keep on sailing. It is a single handers dream, Steve.

[Ben Thomas]

As was noted in earlier posts timing is everything. When tacking the headsail I always trim the lee sheet in a tad till there is tension on it first, come about letting the sail back wind a bit, then let it go. It usually blows right through the slot. That worked great with the stock yankee (85%?) with the 130 it is more problematic, enough that I rigged the babystay as detachable.
When I venture out into the Pacific I rig the babystay back up prior to departure. I would not dismantle the the staysail and boom, It offers options in stink that otherwise would not be there. Calms the boat down and the crew for sure.
Ben

[Clay Stalker]

Yankee Lady is a true cutter. As with all double headsail boats, tacking is a challenge. If the wind is up, the headsail will usually come through the slot...if the wind is light, one will have to go forward and help the headsail through. No way around it!!

[Dean Abramson]

I would like to heartily thank everyone who has written in so far, and encourage even more feedback. This discussion is very helpful to me. Much obliged. "Keep those cards and letters coming!"

Dean

[wihryd]

Thanks for the comments. My apologies for interrupting the thread with a somewhat different set of issues. All of your comments on tacking a cutter have been helplful. As always, there appear to be trade-offs.

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

This may seem unrelated. Sorry! But I've been wondering about this for a long time: How would it work to use TWO asymmetrical spinnakers at the same time for downwind work? (two "headsails"....)

Regards,
Troy Scott, new owner of a CD36

[Frank Vernet]

Dean,

To answer your question about CD33 cutters - the "cutter" variant is the CD330 of which only 22 were built. 124 CD33 sloops were manufactured, so the CD330 is comparitively rare.

I don't know that you can add an inner forestay to a CD33 and have a CD330. I believe the CD330 has a bowsprit which extends the forward reach of the forestay, plus the CD330 has an LOA of just over 35'. Two different boats with different designs, inside and outside.

Hope this helps.