We've owned a CD 28 for four months or so and the sailing bug has bitten us hard. My wife has agreed to start preparations for a multi-year cruise and I think we will want a little bigger boat for the two of us and our 5 year old. Assuming that we will stay in the CD world and setting the CD 36 as a maximum length (and price!) and a CD 30 as not a large enough difference to consider it, is there a real difference between the 31 to 36 models? Which one is set up best for storing all of the supplies for an extended cruise (storage being the main disadvantage of our 28 in my view)? I think a ketch would be a good idea and a cutter rig is essential.
Any thoughts?
Moving up for extended cruising CD 28 to which CD?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Bill Goldsmith
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 08:47
- Location: CD 32
Rich,
People have taken all size CDs on extended voyages. Winthrop's recent posts come to mind. But using your parameters, here is my quick summary based on looking at many larger CDs when we upgraded from a 27 to our 32. I am confining my comments to the Albergs except I include the 30 MkII because I've been on a couple.
CD only made ketches from the 30l. (I think they made one 45K, too). So called "cutters" are found in the 30, 31, 32, some 33s, 330 and 36.
All models have compromises with regard to storage, amenities, etc. You should go look at some, get a feel of what is right for you.
30MKII--More than an incremental increase in size from the 30. It's a whole different design. It has the more modern T-cockpit, propane locker, shower stall in head and it is huge for a 30 footer down below. As comfortable as a 31 to 33, but in a 30 foot package. Their prices tend to reflect the popularity of the design.
31--A great option, note the head is right across from the galley, many like that as there is less motion in a seaway and it doubles as a great wet locker for foulies, etc. They made enough of them so there are usually some on the market at any one time. The 31 is significantly larger than a 30, has more storage. I did not consider one for me because I have 3 kids and really wanted a quarterberth. Keel-stepped.
32--What I ended up with ('86, hull #2). A tad bigger and heavier than a 31, more traditional layout, essentially the same layout as a 33, except the head is on the starboard side and is smaller. T-cockpit, a factory-installed propane locker in the cockpit--great for cruising, and you don't have to retrofit a suitable propane locker. It has a quarterberth. A number were built as double headsail "cutters." I personally think the 32 is the CD model with the most "bang for the buck." It has basically the same amenities as the 36, with everything being proportionally smaller (smaller q-berth, smaller head, smaller nav station, smaller galley, smaller salon, smaller engine, smaller sails, you get it.) But at about half the price of a similar vintage CD36 it is a GREAT value. Too bad CD only made 11 of them, and that's the problem-they are hard to come by. Deck-stepped.
33--A classic. Traditional layout, except for creative approach to v-berth design. This was designed to fill the niche of a smaller version of a 36. Usually rigged as single headsail sloops. Leo M. is investigating adding an inner forestay on Evening Light to fly a storm jib. No factory propane locker, a suitable one would need to have been/be installed if you want gas. Keel-stepped.
330--A classic update of the 33. CD put a bowsprit on the 33, made it a double headsail "cutter," modified the doghouse and deck design (making the salon larger), added the T-cockpit design with factory propane locker, but (I believe) used the same hull mold as the 33. Down below they eliminated the quarterberth, added a shower stall and went with the standard v-berth layout. Keel-stepped.
36--The gold standard CD. A late T-cockpit version ('85-86ish onward) is going to cost alot more than the traditional teak coaming version. On the other hand an older model in good shape can be a great value compared to similarly capable 36 foot sailboats.
Everyone knows the three rules of real estate value: "location, location, and location." The three rules of boat value are "condition, condition, condition."
People have taken all size CDs on extended voyages. Winthrop's recent posts come to mind. But using your parameters, here is my quick summary based on looking at many larger CDs when we upgraded from a 27 to our 32. I am confining my comments to the Albergs except I include the 30 MkII because I've been on a couple.
CD only made ketches from the 30l. (I think they made one 45K, too). So called "cutters" are found in the 30, 31, 32, some 33s, 330 and 36.
All models have compromises with regard to storage, amenities, etc. You should go look at some, get a feel of what is right for you.
30MKII--More than an incremental increase in size from the 30. It's a whole different design. It has the more modern T-cockpit, propane locker, shower stall in head and it is huge for a 30 footer down below. As comfortable as a 31 to 33, but in a 30 foot package. Their prices tend to reflect the popularity of the design.
31--A great option, note the head is right across from the galley, many like that as there is less motion in a seaway and it doubles as a great wet locker for foulies, etc. They made enough of them so there are usually some on the market at any one time. The 31 is significantly larger than a 30, has more storage. I did not consider one for me because I have 3 kids and really wanted a quarterberth. Keel-stepped.
32--What I ended up with ('86, hull #2). A tad bigger and heavier than a 31, more traditional layout, essentially the same layout as a 33, except the head is on the starboard side and is smaller. T-cockpit, a factory-installed propane locker in the cockpit--great for cruising, and you don't have to retrofit a suitable propane locker. It has a quarterberth. A number were built as double headsail "cutters." I personally think the 32 is the CD model with the most "bang for the buck." It has basically the same amenities as the 36, with everything being proportionally smaller (smaller q-berth, smaller head, smaller nav station, smaller galley, smaller salon, smaller engine, smaller sails, you get it.) But at about half the price of a similar vintage CD36 it is a GREAT value. Too bad CD only made 11 of them, and that's the problem-they are hard to come by. Deck-stepped.
33--A classic. Traditional layout, except for creative approach to v-berth design. This was designed to fill the niche of a smaller version of a 36. Usually rigged as single headsail sloops. Leo M. is investigating adding an inner forestay on Evening Light to fly a storm jib. No factory propane locker, a suitable one would need to have been/be installed if you want gas. Keel-stepped.
330--A classic update of the 33. CD put a bowsprit on the 33, made it a double headsail "cutter," modified the doghouse and deck design (making the salon larger), added the T-cockpit design with factory propane locker, but (I believe) used the same hull mold as the 33. Down below they eliminated the quarterberth, added a shower stall and went with the standard v-berth layout. Keel-stepped.
36--The gold standard CD. A late T-cockpit version ('85-86ish onward) is going to cost alot more than the traditional teak coaming version. On the other hand an older model in good shape can be a great value compared to similarly capable 36 foot sailboats.
Everyone knows the three rules of real estate value: "location, location, and location." The three rules of boat value are "condition, condition, condition."
In all due respect
IF you spend your time gaining experience you will most likely be able to answer this most important question for yourself.
And as a side benefit of not only discovering for yourself what you need when it comes to the size of the boat you'll gain experience. One of the most overlooked aspects of boats is the systems involved. What can you do "out there" when a system fails? Will you be miserable because your refigeration has failed? Unable to navigate because the batteries died because the alt fired? Lost because your GPS batteries died? Only experience can teach you what you will need both in the way of physical resources and even more importantly mental resources. There is no AAA "out there" only you and the crew.
Best wishes
Randy 25D Seraph #161
And as a side benefit of not only discovering for yourself what you need when it comes to the size of the boat you'll gain experience. One of the most overlooked aspects of boats is the systems involved. What can you do "out there" when a system fails? Will you be miserable because your refigeration has failed? Unable to navigate because the batteries died because the alt fired? Lost because your GPS batteries died? Only experience can teach you what you will need both in the way of physical resources and even more importantly mental resources. There is no AAA "out there" only you and the crew.
Best wishes
Randy 25D Seraph #161
CD Extended cruising
Like others on this board, I've been on most CD's and currently own a CD36. We also owned a CD30 and loved that boat ..... did a lot of coastal cruising, but there's nothing like having more space for storage and the added water line and weight really add to the comfort factor out on the ocean. It may seem large to you now, but a CD36 is not a big boat and will seem small very quickly (certainly by comparison to most other cruisers out there).
What's your budget? If you can afford to pay $75k for an older CD36 and then throw another $10-20k at it to get it ready for cruising .... go that route. Knock $10k off the base price for each model down from there starting with the 330.
Pat
________
Magic flight launch box review
________
Yamaha rx 100
What's your budget? If you can afford to pay $75k for an older CD36 and then throw another $10-20k at it to get it ready for cruising .... go that route. Knock $10k off the base price for each model down from there starting with the 330.
Pat
________
Magic flight launch box review
________
Yamaha rx 100
Last edited by patturner on Feb 15th, '11, 21:27, edited 2 times in total.
-
RichMason
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Jun 14th, '05, 14:10
- Location: CD28 s/v Su Lan #228
Washington, NC (McCotter's Marina)
Research is fun...
I'm going to drive down to Beaufort this weekend and look at a CD 31 (Equus) that's on Yachtworld with a listing of $49900. Seems well equipped but who knows what shape she's in.
My main concern is storage for supplies and equipment - chain rodes, victuals, dink, sails and not having to move stuff around every time you want to sit down. We are a tight family and used to living in small quarters (800 sq ft house).
Randy, of course you are right, there is no substitute for experience and I freely confess that my shallow depth of such merits a shoal draft keel. I posted such a subjective question knowing I would get a detailed, knowledgeable summary of the somtimes subtle differences from other CDers who have gone down this same rode
.
My main concern is storage for supplies and equipment - chain rodes, victuals, dink, sails and not having to move stuff around every time you want to sit down. We are a tight family and used to living in small quarters (800 sq ft house).
Randy, of course you are right, there is no substitute for experience and I freely confess that my shallow depth of such merits a shoal draft keel. I posted such a subjective question knowing I would get a detailed, knowledgeable summary of the somtimes subtle differences from other CDers who have gone down this same rode
.Rich Mason
-
Zeida Cecilia-Mendez
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:18
- Location: Bandolera II, 1981 CD-33- Hull #73 Miami, FL
- Contact:
-
Clay Stalker
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 12:07
- Location: 17' Town Class Sloop
Which CD??
Rich:
The only real way to determine which of the boats you would be happiest with is to examine them all personally and sail all of them. This would be difficult but not impossible with the resources available on this board.
That being said, what you seem to be looking for (if you are looking to get larger than a 28) is a 31, 32, 33, 330, or 36. Any of these would give you a great long distance cruiser for 3. The most important consideration for you should be condition.
If $$ is not a prime consideration, you should clearly go for the 36 if you can....this is the boat you want. However, the 33 is not that much smaller and is usually 1/3 less $$ for a good one, so this is also an option. 32s are very hard to find, but an excellent option as well.
Me? If I was going long distance cruising with 3 at this point (I also have a 28 footer) I would definately go for the 36, a true classic (or maybe a Shannon 38, but that's another story).
Good Luck!
Clay Stalker
The only real way to determine which of the boats you would be happiest with is to examine them all personally and sail all of them. This would be difficult but not impossible with the resources available on this board.
That being said, what you seem to be looking for (if you are looking to get larger than a 28) is a 31, 32, 33, 330, or 36. Any of these would give you a great long distance cruiser for 3. The most important consideration for you should be condition.
If $$ is not a prime consideration, you should clearly go for the 36 if you can....this is the boat you want. However, the 33 is not that much smaller and is usually 1/3 less $$ for a good one, so this is also an option. 32s are very hard to find, but an excellent option as well.
Me? If I was going long distance cruising with 3 at this point (I also have a 28 footer) I would definately go for the 36, a true classic (or maybe a Shannon 38, but that's another story).
Good Luck!
Clay Stalker
-
Parfait's Provider
- Posts: 764
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 13:06
- Location: CD/36 #84, Parfait, Raleigh, NC
berthed Whortonsville, NC
Thanks
Thanks, everyone, for all the good words about the 36 and, especially, the oblique comparison with the Shannon 38. That is another story, but it is nice to think they are in the same class.
One thing that has not been mentioned is engine access. I think the 36 is OK, but many of the boats would require a mechanic much smaller than he who comes with Parfait. I can squeeze into the 36's engine compartment and across a temporary platform (dinghy thwart) to reach the bottom of the port locker, but I'd hate to have to be pulled out of there in an emergency. Most of the other engine compartments are smaller.
One thing that has not been mentioned is engine access. I think the 36 is OK, but many of the boats would require a mechanic much smaller than he who comes with Parfait. I can squeeze into the 36's engine compartment and across a temporary platform (dinghy thwart) to reach the bottom of the port locker, but I'd hate to have to be pulled out of there in an emergency. Most of the other engine compartments are smaller.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/36 #84
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
-
Bill Michne
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 07:25
- Location: CD 40, Mintaka, Oriental, NC
Go 36 if you can
We used to have a CD 31. It was a great boat for coastal cruising, but we found it a bit tight when fully stocked even for a couple of weeks. Engine access was also tight. It seems to me that a 36 would be an ideal solution. It is large enough to hold all you would need (including fresh water), yet small enough to be manageable under adverse conditions. Of course, a 40 would be even better from a storage point of view, but CD only made 17 of them, one a ketch. The downside of the 40 is cost, and finding one. We were lucky to find ours at a good price, but have paid dearly for upgrades. But the storage is great. We have been out for as long as a month with stores to spare. So I would rate the 36 as a benchmark. The farther you go below 36, the more cramped and uncomfortable you will be. Above 36 the more comfortable and poor you will be. Good luck, and let us know what you choose.
Bill Michne
s/v Mintaka, CD 40
s/v Mintaka, CD 40