criusing boats how big should the be

[Marianna Max]

I'd want a boat that would forgive my sins (being a newbie sailor and all). But I'd also like some comfort for those laid back times.

btw, How do couples that cruise come to terms with being that close all the time? Don't they get a bit stir crazy?

[Neil Gordon]

I'd want a boat that would forgive my sins (being a newbie sailor and all). But I'd also like some comfort for those laid back times.

btw, How do couples that cruise come to terms with being that close all the time? Don't they get a bit stir crazy?

Sail a flat bottomed dinghy, mis-read a puff and you get wet. Get it really wrong and the mast will point straight down and stay there. Boats with full keels with 3000 lbs of lead under them will be more forgiving, for sure.

Comfort can be a function of size but it's about design, too. Unfortunately, sailboat design is also about compromise. Go to the boat show and you see roomy interiors, double beds, cabins under the cockpit and the like. You'll also find no hanging locker, limited cockpit storage, etc. For me, the idea of a comfy boat is one that's still likely to get me there when the wind and seas pick up.

Cruising couples are like any others in terms of getting along, I suppose, although working as a team is important. As for getting on each others nerves, remember that on a circumnavigation, the longest legs are only in the six weeks or so at sea range. <g>

[winthrop fisher]

Hey Neil...
you have so much to say and you have so many good points as all was and thanks for that site...
winthrop

Thanks, Winthrop. I suppose what differentiates the small boats that made it from the big boats that didn't is in part due to the skipper/crew being prepared and acting in a seamanlike manner.

For a long list... http://www.famoussmallboats.com/ There are some notable voyages, but my favorite is Shackleton and his 800 mile sail through the southern ocean in a 22 foot converted lifeboat.

Small boats are safer in some ways... the loads are lots less and so they are easier to handle, especially short handed. Think trying to wrestle a flogging genoa.

[winthrop fisher]

Hi Sally...

thank you so much, i have never had any one say any thing like that before, about me.... but my wife.
you are so kind, but i am just a person on this board just like ever one else.
again thank you, would you please get back on this board and take part with ever one else.
thank you.

winthrop

winthorp, i agree with you .. i all ways say there are people who can sail and people who ca'nt.

and those that CAN just sail

and those that CANT just write books about it.

i respect you b'cause you don't go around big-mouthing yourself to others and writin books about your wonderful exprience. you do'nt try make youreself look better than others just because you did over 100,000 miles offshore in a little ty.

you other guys should try to be more like winthop and then there woul'nt be so much fighting on this board

if winthorp can do all those good things in a ty it proves you dont need a bigger boat to go cruising and its not right to say small boats are less seaworthy than big boats because wintrop hasproved it time and time again while most poeople just sit at home reading books.

and he has give ytou his free wisdom for what to do to your boat to make it seawrthy and he didnt make you pay for a book

he is my hero

[winthrop fisher]

Hey... thanks, but up with that last part... winthrop

Sally,

There is actually a minimum of "fighting" on this board considering how much activity takes place. We do sometimes get carried away on this board (especially in the dead of winter) but I think in the end people who like Cape Dorys tend to be pretty nice people.

Winthrop is modest and understated so not everyone knows about his unbelievable accomplishments. Thanks for sharing your opinion. Maybe you can share some more about Winthrop.

Dick

[winthrop fisher]

hey steve, very well said...winthrop

I think all of this talk about taking very small boats on long voyages has little point. Of course you COULD sail a Typoon on a very long journey if you had to or wanted to for whatever your reason may be. Weather you would be truly comfortable is a whole other question. When I was very young, I spent most of my days sailing a Sunfish and if I had had a Typhoon at the time I might have become a world voyager. I had time and comfort ( or lack there of) would have been of little concern. I also used to walk bare footed on very hot tar, sleep on the floor, go to bed salty and sandy, not be bothered too much by the heat, swim till hypothermic on a regular basis and just in general not be bothered too much with what I would now consider basic comforts. I also had very simple explanations for any temporary aches and and pains I might be experiencing that usually involved some sort of injury from doing something foolish. I don't think it is so much that I have gotten softer in the passing of years but that I have gained experience. Note that I am making no claim to getting smarter. After sailing the Typhoon for a couple of years I too shared all those thoughts of sailing off into the sunrise (East coast). After a few over night trips I am keeping the TY for my son who will soon be old enough to sail her on his own and may have the desire to take her on a coastal cruise. We now sail a CD-30 and have not had a chance to do an extended cruise with her yet. After sailing her for day and weekend trips there is NO WAY I would ever consider going back to a Typhoon for even short over night trips. The CD-30 is a wonderful boat! If I was going on an extended cruise and money was not a major consideration I would certainly be looking at a CD-36 or something in that range. We all just do the best we can. There are lots of things I can do better than a lot of other people. There are far more things other people can do better than I do. If I had more money to spare I might be doing things a bit differently. I know I could walk naked in a snow storm and survive, if I had to or wanted to. It is much more comfortable to be dressed for the weather and crosscountry ski through the forest and truly enjoy it. It is also really nice to sit by the fire in a nice warm house and read a well written book on sailing, so I am very thankful that there are those who can write much better than most of us, Steve.

[winthrop fisher]

Hey warren...

thank you and i well do my home work and post that for ever one as well...

winthrop

winthorp, i agree with you .. i all ways say there are people who can sail and people who ca'nt.

Ah....that reminds me of what one of the all time great violinists, Nathan Milstein said, when asked about a piece of music that was considered "difficult". He said:

To me there is no such thing as difficult music. Either I can play it, or I can't.

Peoples' opinions about a very large subject like sailing include many personal biases. I have a neighbor who goes cruising. He's a powerboater and he has a wide screen TV, VCR, huge stereo, a huge galley, a bathroom (hardly a head) that would put some home bathrooms to shame. To him, a house that has somehow put to sea, is "cruising". Then there was one of the great legends of the sailing community, Nathaniel Herreshoff who once said, What good is cruising if it is no different than staying home. Whose to say what's right?

Winthrop lists some of the myriad of successful voyages in small boats as evidence of seaworthiness. There is no question that many boats are seaworthy if sailed by competent sailors. What would be more interesting to me here, and what might add some perspective, would be a list of all voyages attempted in "small" and "large" boats that didn't make it. Then a crude percentage could be calculated as to what percent of small boat voyages ended in failure as opposed to large boat attempts. As I said, it would be a very crude statistic and I doubt that the information is readily available anyway.

I'd better shut up now. I've never been accused of being "short winded" and this has kept my reputation in tact.

[winthrop fisher]

Hey Seabelle, thanks

you remind me of an old friend i had in texas and have not heard from him in a long time.

a great man onces said to me a long time ago.

the very smallest cockleshells are seldom chosen for off shore passage making because they are considered the safest craft for the job. they are nearly always chosen for economic reasons or for the purpose of breaking a record.....

this man sailed the world three times around and he did write a book because and he was dyslexia and i am too...

but i like the way you write and allot of others in here too.

thanks again.
winthrop

I echo the feelings of those who supported Winthrop and the rest of us in using our own voice to share our opinions.

I value the opinions and experiences shared here and the civility of this comunity. We can't all be world cruisers or expert craftsman but I hope we can all be kind to each other.

---------------------------
'Be not angry that you can not make others as you wish them to be, since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be' - Thomas a Kempis

[winthrop fisher]

Hey Fred...
if ever one had a boat that weight at 10,000 pds or more there would be no small boats around.

and besides people do it for allot of reasons:
to see if it can be done.
going cheap.
for the wind and waves. i do.
for the fun.
for the challenge.
go small.
and i am sure there is allot more.
thanks for the feed back.
winthrop

Hi all,

An endless discussion no doubt.
Is small big enough?

Tom Colvin writes that for cruising 10,000 lbs per person is good. For live aboard-long distance cruising 20,000 lbs per person is good.

I have often thought about this as a challenge.

The "lightest" (all up displacement) boat capable of an unassisted non-stop solo circumnavigation. Seems likely that it would be around 12-15 k lbs and therefore about 33-35 feet long.

Think of the parameters. A boat that size would probably do good to average 100 nautical miles per day. That means about 350-400 days for a circumnavigation. So how do you have a boat strong enough to handle the conditions and light enough to carry everything needed for the trip?

As for small vs medium vs large, I suspect that is a question of finances for most people, contemplating long distance cruising.

Many small boat sailors do it for the challenge. I suspect the rest do it cause it is what they can afford, more than for any other reason.

For me a CD28 is just big enough to carry me and my stuff and still small enough for me to handle...and afford(I hope).

Take care,
Fred B.

[winthrop fisher]

Hi welcome to the board...

i lived on a morgan 41 for a few years and it was like living in a house on the water.

but my typhoon 18'6" i have spent many weekends and up to a month at a time on board with out any trouble at all.

its up to the person on what he or she wants in a boat and how you are going to use it.

you have to make sure on the type of sailing you do.

day sailing in lakes or bays.
weekenders for long week end.
coastal sailing.
or off shore sailing.
or blue water sailing in open ocean.

i take my wife and three kids out for the day and we just enjoy each other.
my wife and me have gone on long weekends are just fine.
its up to you.

hope this helps and have fun in here.
winthrop

I'd want a boat that would forgive my sins (being a newbie sailor and all). But I'd also like some comfort for those laid back times.

btw, How do couples that cruise come to terms with being that close all the time? Don't they get a bit stir crazy?

[Mike Rodriguez]

to Dick Barthel and Jack,-----Well said!!

The many people that contribute to this board. Thanks!!

Neil, you crack me up.

I like my 30 because it's comfy and easy to handle. I think a good small boat is safer than a large (45+) in hairy situations.

[rtbates]

Most American's subscribe the maxim "get the most you can afford plus 10%". Rather than "get the least that will get the job done". I can't count on both hands how many people I know are shocked that I sail a 25 foot vessel". They say things like, "Surely you can afford a bigger boat, given the fact your a 58 year old engineer with both house paid for and no car payments". What do you do with your money?" I reply, "I put it in savings."

Oh yea, it's also a status symbol for some. Who's impressed with a 25 foot sailboat?
One of my favorite books is "Walden Pond" by Ralph Waldo Emerson.

randy 25D Seraph #161

[Neil Gordon]

"Surely you can afford a bigger boat, ...

I wax and buff LIQUIDITY by hand each spring. And each spring someone offers me the loan of a power buffer. I decline, always with the same polite comment... "Hand buffing is what keeps me reminded that I really don't want a bigger boat."

[Dick Barthel]

Well said by Neil and Randy...I've spent the better part of my life time convincing my mate that bigger is not necessarily better! Dick

[winthrop fisher]

all right you three. well i am 48 and i could go out and get that morgan 41 back, but i like the fact that small is in for me, thats why i have a typhoon and cd22 for my wife....winthrop

Well said by Neil and Randy...I've spent the better part of my life time convincing my mate that bigger is not necessarily better! Dick