Can you move o/b on CD25?

[DanaVin]

Even though I got GE up to 6.2 knots last Sunday about 6 miles off Pt. Loma, when the winds hit over 20 the reefed (and 28 year old) main finally went the way of old sails and tore apart from sheer old age. Later, back at the slip a neighbor said the o/b in the well could easily be converted to a smaller one mounted on the transom and that I should pick up almost an additional knot without all the prop drag. He's thinking GE should be doing 7 knots maximum at times. Does this make sense? Also, that once o/b is moved out of well, to glass the opening up and it could be used for additional storage space.
Is this possible with a CD25 or should I say practical? Has anyone done this before? Any comments appreciated as I await the arrival of GE's new main. I presume a smaller o/b than the Honda 5 hp long shaft would be required.
Thanks,
Dana
"Gladys Erzella"
1977, CD25
San Diego Bay

[Zeida Cecilia-Mendez]

Dana... FWIW... I sailed a wonderful CD-25 for 18 years. Many times I wished my 9.9 Evinrude (when they still fit somewhat in the lazarette) was transom mounted, simply because for me it was rather difficult to get it out of the well for maintenance and to get it back in there, which I did every year... In the 18 years I kept her, I had three different engines. First, the 1980 9.9 Evinrude. Six years later, a 9.9 Johnson sailmaster and six years later a 9.9 Mercury, all of them bought brand new... All of them went into the well. I had shaved off the top of the wood mount, so the outboards would fit. Even with the 9.9 outboards, if motoring, when it was blowing over 18 knots, the engine was not powerful enough to turn the boat around when needed. Anything smaller than a 9.9 will not give the boat much help. I also think it is unrealistic to expect the CD-25 to have a hull speed of 7 knots. I did get her to sail that fast in two unforgettable occasions, but under normal sailing conditions, the boat does not have the waterline length to go that fast. With strong following winds and waves, the 25 will surf and give you an exhilarating ride.

Unless you are club racing your 25 serioiusly, what are you going to gain with removing the outboard from the well...? half a knot? To me it was not worth the trouble. I also did not need the extra storage, but I kept two 6-gal. fuel tanks on each side of the engine which gave me added security when doing longer cruises. Your new main will give you surprising results when sailing GE. Do not worry about the outboard taking speed away... it is behind the keel anyway

[ray b]

I did that to a old columbia 24 I had years ago
when I got tired of the well flooding and fighting the O/B in and out

I cut off the well and glassed it over
and bolted a pivoting mount to the transom
with a backing piece of plywood 1/2 inch
used a seagull 5hp on the mount

the quick spring accested rize was nice as was the ability to quickly
lower and start the motor as needed

and yes they are way faster without the propdrag

the current CD-25 is daysailed off a mouring
and never had a motor on it in my ownership

[swbossert]

My CD25 came to me with a Yamaha 9.9 4 stroke hung on the transom and the motorwell glassed over. At first I wanted to change it back but decided that the motor was probably moved because it was too big to fit in the well. Also, the times that I left the motor in the water while sailing, the noise of the prop turning drove me crazy.

[tartansailor]

Cape Dory 25 "Hull Speed" is 5.7 knots.
Anything greater than that is just not in the cards.
Dick

[Didereaux]

Yes the 25 has a hull speed around 5.7 when FLAT. However at a 20 degree heel your actual waterline lenghtens such that the hull speed is well over 6. It's simple when you think about it and look. those overhangs fore and aft get wet on heel. that lengthens you LWL, so more speed.

Some would argue that it also increases wetted surface and therefor friction slows you, I would remind them that in the conditions that cause or allow 20 degree heel, the wind has way for force available to counteract the small amount or frixction from that wetted surface. heh

[Neil Gordon]

Some would argue that it also increases wetted surface and therefor friction slows you, ...

The wetted surfaces that get wet when the boat heels are lots smoother than the parts that are in the water all the time.

[T.]

I actually had the opposite question on my mind . . . I've been looking at Typhoons and wondered if it might be possible (or even advisable) to convert the transom-mounted inboard to a CD22-style inboard/outboard . . . after all, there IS a hatch back there.

Thoughts?

[Carter Brey]

Nobody's mentioned the aesthetics of mounting an OB on the transom of a CD25. Of course it can be done, but...

Dana, before you take on a project like this, consider what a hunk of iron would look like on the adorable heart-shaped rear end of your boat. Inconvenient though it might seem, one of the reasons behind the idea of a motorwell was to preserve the line of the vessel. In my humble opinion, screwing a motor mount into the transom would be akin to Sofia Loren hanging an eggbeater off her butt. Yeah, your morning omelet would be easier to prepare, but life would be just a little bit less worth living.

Perhaps your local conditions would permit the use of a lighter motor? There's been a good deal of chat on the board about appropriate engine size for this boat. You could do a search and review what's been written about this question. I've never found myself underpowered or unable to maneuver with the 4-stroke Nissan 6hp. When I bought it, I swapped out the stock prop for a flatter-pitch 7.8 X 7 prop to insure that it could rev up to high rpm's without lugging or cavitating. It really has worked out very well. And the bonus is that it weighs only 55 pounds. Even skinny musicians with glasses can lift it and stow it in a cockpit locker once underway. Mine lives nearly full-time in that locker, since my boat stays at a mooring and I rarely bother with the engine. The paint still looks factory-fresh. And with the added 0.0043 knot of boatspeed through the water, I'm the despair of the Larchmont Yacht Club Western Long Island Sound Shields Association.

Take care,
CB

[DanaVin]

Thanks to all for their responses. After much thought and especially in reading Carter's reply, this project is now been terminated. I, too, would not like the looks of GE with an iron sail on her stern.
Thanks
Dana

[Neil Gordon]

Nobody's mentioned the aesthetics of mounting an OB on the transom of a CD25.

What about the physics of moving all that weight further astern?

[Bruce Bett]

Oh Carter... You do indeed have the soul of an artist!

Bruce

In my humble opinion, screwing a motor mount into the transom would be akin to Sofia Loren hanging an eggbeater off her butt.

[rtbates]

Nobody's mentioned that by moving the motor to the stern she'll cavitate much easier. And since you sail in Pacific swells you might not like having the motor come out of the water every time you crest a swell. And it's ugly!

Randy 25D Seraph #161

[Brian A.]

Both Randy and Carter are sooo right. The P/O of our CD 25 had a 9.9 Evinrude mounted on a retractable transom bracket. Besides spoiling her sexy lines, the prop frequently lost "traction" in rough conditions. This was especially problematic in Fire Island Inlet with its combination of current and steep waves. To make matters worse, the overhang of the transom made it impossible to raise the engine more than a few inches so it still dragged in the water! The only advantages in this arrangement were that the miserable two-stroke was a little further away from the cockpit and could be installed and removed with fewer curses. In short, in my humble opinion, the engine does not belong on this boat's transom. We immediately moved the engine back to the well at the conclusion of the two-day delivery cruise. Unfortunately, Simpatico still bears the scars on her cute little backside. We currently have an 8 hp Evinrude Yachtwin which was purchased new about ten years ago and which is the most dependable engine I have ever owned. If I outlive this one, we'll go for a smaller four stroke like Carter's next time. Cheers, Brian