New Interoir

[John Hamilton]

I have a 1973 CD25 which I would like to tear the fiber
glass headliner and fiberglass interior out of. This would
also mean removing the bulkheads infront and behind the mast
on the interior. Will I becompromising the structural
integrity of the boat? Has any one gutted their interior and
put a new teak one in? Should a compression post be added under the mast? I would appreciate any thoughts on this project.



jfranklin@lrbcg.com

[Tom Young]

I believe any headliners and interior fiberglas components are not
structural, if you are not sure you should get opinions from someone
with experience in that area. Of course the bulkheads are structural
and you would need to keep them or replace them or redesign new locations to provide the same or better structural integrity.
The same goes for the mast, you will need to support it as well or
better than the original design.
I have removed some interior fiberglas from our CD 28 to redesign
parts of the interior with great success.I may do more as I don't seem to outgrow the boat. I checked around when I wasn't sure. Their are
alot of options for redesigning the interiors of these boats. The hulls were designed to sail, the interiors where designed for brochures like any production boat. It takes alot of time(i.e. money)
to customize interiors and I don't fault the way CD built theirs.




fish@mint.net

[jim stull]

I have a 1973 CD25 which I would like to tear the fiber
glass headliner and fiberglass interior out of. This would
also mean removing the bulkheads infront and behind the mast
on the interior. Will I becompromising the structural
integrity of the boat? Has any one gutted their interior and
put a new teak one in? Should a compression post be added under the mast? I would appreciate any thoughts on this project.

Hi John
We stripped and gutted our '75 CD25 for a total rebuild/upgrade. Very pleased with final results. If you wish to discuss problems you might face or other details, email me.
Jim



jtstull@icubed.com

[Bill]

In a similiar vane, I need to increase storage on my 25D. I have been considering cutting the liner behing the settes and putting in some sort of shelving for books and canned foods.

My concern was the relationship between the liner and the hull was structural? If it is not then there should be no problems. The comments listed here suggest that the liner is not structural. Is that the case?

Bill

I have a 1973 CD25 which I would like to tear the fiber
glass headliner and fiberglass interior out of. This would
also mean removing the bulkheads infront and behind the mast
on the interior. Will I becompromising the structural
integrity of the boat? Has any one gutted their interior and
put a new teak one in? Should a compression post be added under the mast? I would appreciate any thoughts on this project.

cd25d@clnk.com

[John Halporn]

Take a look at This Old Boat by Don Casey. This book has been an invaluable guide for rebuilding the interior of my Typhoon. JH



jhalpo@javanet.com

[John]

I have a 1973 CD25 which I would like to tear the fiber
glass headliner and fiberglass interior out of. This would
also mean removing the bulkheads infront and behind the mast
on the interior. Will I becompromising the structural
integrity of the boat? Has any one gutted their interior and
put a new teak one in? Should a compression post be added under the mast? I would appreciate any thoughts on this project.

In my opinion you would be making a serious mistake in so far as compromising structural elements of the hull. Namely the stiffness unless you are a marine architect or engineer who has the necessary skills in determining the proper method of restoring what you would lose in removing the liner. Many people think liners are just cosmetic, not so. Liners are used for making a hull stiff adding to its integrity, easier securement of bulkheads and joinerwork, quicker production labor time as opposed to extensive joinerwork time and materials, they make for an easier to maintain interior, they create a smooth finished hull interior. Those are some of the benefits. The CD liners are set in a polyester bonding putty helping to create a very strong hull/liner construction, thus stiffness. I have worked for a few builders, one used a partial liner (it used to be a full liner hull but changed it to save money)(they now use a vinyl wallpaper in combo with a partial liner - how strong is that?), and another two used nothing but a full liner. The "production boats" I've been on that have full liners are more often than not the far better built boats. I think if you want a boat without a liner you should maybe think about selling your CD and buying something else that's linerless and save yourself a ton of nasty work and $$$$. I'm sure you would wind up costing yourself far more in time and $$$$ than the boat is worth. In addition you would not have a professionaly engineered boat and you could expect zilch on resale at a later date, if you could sell it at all. A good surveyor would be brutal on his/her report if he/she noted that major modifications from factory original specs had been made by an owner and not a qualified custom yard or organization. Even if the later did do the work it would be detrimental to the boats resale. This is not to say your ideal is impossible, it's just impractical on such a boat. If we were talking about a $250K Hinckley or something like that then we would be dancing to a different tune entirely. I certainly don't know what your boat building skills are nor your financial situation but I do know you are considering a project that is simply not in your best interest nor the boats. Maybe you should consider a solid wooden vessel that you could modify to your hearts content. Although even at that you need to properly engineer your mods. The changes would be easier to make than in a FRP hull. You could also consider a "owner completion" FRP production boat and buy one at any stage of construction and finish it yourself any way you prefer. But "resale" is a problem on those boats.

[jim stull]

I have a 1973 CD25 which I would like to tear the fiber
glass headliner and fiberglass interior out of. This would
also mean removing the bulkheads infront and behind the mast
on the interior. Will I becompromising the structural
integrity of the boat? Has any one gutted their interior and
put a new teak one in? Should a compression post be added under the mast? I would appreciate any thoughts on this project.

In my opinion you would be making a serious mistake in so far as compromising structural elements of the hull. Namely the stiffness unless you are a marine architect or engineer who has the necessary skills in determining the proper method of restoring what you would lose in removing the liner. Many people think liners are just cosmetic, not so. Liners are used for making a hull stiff adding to its integrity, easier securement of bulkheads and joinerwork, quicker production labor time as opposed to extensive joinerwork time and materials, they make for an easier to maintain interior, they create a smooth finished hull interior. Those are some of the benefits. The CD liners are set in a polyester bonding putty helping to create a very strong hull/liner construction, thus stiffness. I have worked for a few builders, one used a partial liner (it used to be a full liner hull but changed it to save money)(they now use a vinyl wallpaper in combo with a partial liner - how strong is that?), and another two used nothing but a full liner. The "production boats" I've been on that have full liners are more often than not the far better built boats. I think if you want a boat without a liner you should maybe think about selling your CD and buying something else that's linerless and save yourself a ton of nasty work and $$$$. I'm sure you would wind up costing yourself far more in time and $$$$ than the boat is worth. In addition you would not have a professionaly engineered boat and you could expect zilch on resale at a later date, if you could sell it at all. A good surveyor would be brutal on his/her report if he/she noted that major modifications from factory original specs had been made by an owner and not a qualified custom yard or organization. Even if the later did do the work it would be detrimental to the boats resale. This is not to say your ideal is impossible, it's just impractical on such a boat. If we were talking about a $250K Hinckley or something like that then we would be dancing to a different tune entirely. I certainly don't know what your boat building skills are nor your financial situation but I do know you are considering a project that is simply not in your best interest nor the boats. Maybe you should consider a solid wooden vessel that you could modify to your hearts content. Although even at that you need to properly engineer your mods. The changes would be easier to make than in a FRP hull. You could also consider a "owner completion" FRP production boat and buy one at any stage of construction and finish it yourself any way you prefer. But "resale" is a problem on those boats.

As one who has made major changes to my '75 CD25 I concur with John's advise. All is no lost, however, the changes we made to our boat were done to both strengthen the boat as well as to improve the looks.
Our old interior was grim. Industrial looking "teak" plastic laminate on the bulkheads and tables. Elsewhere, 1950 "reform school" blue gelcoat. Depressing!
Some specifices:
I would forget removing the liner. Ours is bonded to the hull. After fitting the new portlites we overlayed the associated (vertical section) of the interior liner with mahogany panels, highly varnished.
The remainder of the liner had the nicks and dings faired, then was painted a soft, buff/offwhite with Interlux semigloss.
Aft bulkheads were removed, veneered, varnished and replaced. Ditto the bulkheads at the entrance. We were unable to remove the forward bulkheads, so the trim was sanded and varnished and the plastic "teak" was painted with the Interlux. The removable table, the sink area and the nav table had new off white formica applied. The sea hood and the sliding hood were removed and had paneling epoxyed to the interior as a stiffning liner. This eliminated the "oilcanning" of these panels. Etc. Etc. You get the idea.
Why do all this work? Because, IF YOU PLAN TO KEEP YOUR BOAT, the work and money invested will yield a very attractive, excellent sailing boat that is difficult to find (at an affordable cost) in this era of beamy boats with huge cockpits.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jim



jtstull@icubed.com

[Olli Wendelin]

John,

I have not familiar with the CD25 interior, although I have done extensive work on the interior of my CD30. What you propose is possible, but costly and very labor intensive. I was forced into my repair due to a fire in the v-berth in Feb 98. The damage was only cosmetic, but the yard bill would have been over $20,000.00. It was either do it myself or have the insurer total the boat.

I replaced the bulkhead between the head and v-berth. This is definately structural. I would not recommend this.

I removed some headliner to increase accesibility. The headliner does add stiffness to the structure. Parts could be removed without adverse effect. But you must decide which parts. In the v-berth and head I installed a slat ceiling of Spanish Cedar covering the headliner. This provides the "wood" effect without removing the headliner. This lost me 1/2 inch of headroom. I have considered doing this in the main salon. Just deciding whether I can spare the headroom.

Just for reference, teak is about $17.40 a board foot and teak plywood is about $85.00 a sheet.

Good Luck,

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC

P.S I am a mechanical engineer with shipbuilding experience.



wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[rich]

John,

I have not familiar with the CD25 interior, although I have done extensive work on the interior of my CD30. What you propose is possible, but costly and very labor intensive. I was forced into my repair due to a fire in the v-berth in Feb 98. The damage was only cosmetic, but the yard bill would have been over $20,000.00. It was either do it myself or have the insurer total the boat.

I replaced the bulkhead between the head and v-berth. This is definately structural. I would not recommend this.

I removed some headliner to increase accesibility. The headliner does add stiffness to the structure. Parts could be removed without adverse effect. But you must decide which parts. In the v-berth and head I installed a slat ceiling of Spanish Cedar covering the headliner. This provides the "wood" effect without removing the headliner. This lost me 1/2 inch of headroom. I have considered doing this in the main salon. Just deciding whether I can spare the headroom.

Just for reference, teak is about $17.40 a board foot and teak plywood is about $85.00 a sheet.

Good Luck,

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC

P.S I am a mechanical engineer with shipbuilding experience.

Olli
I'm interested in giving myself a wood ceiling as well. Additionally, I'm short, 5'6" and my 36 has nearly 6 feet of head room, so I can afford the loss of an inch. Could you give me some info on how you did this. e.g. Did you fiberglass stringers along the ceiling and then screw the slats into them or did you just screw into the ceiling? Where did you buy your wood?

Also, some of the veneer around my ports has water damage. (Is this area referred to as the headliner, I've never been clear on this) Do you have any thoughts on how to repair or replace this without removing the ports and them reseating them once a new veneer is up. My concern is that without removing the ports the refinish work around the ports will look shoddy, but removing the ports and reseating them properly so no leaks occurs seems like a big job.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Rich
s/v Inerarity



craft5@email.med.yale.edu

[Olli Wendelin]

Rich,

To build a wood ceiling I screwed 3/8" x 2" wood battens to the headliner. Install these athwartships with a 12" to 16" spacing. If there is no headliner you can glass the batten to the overhead. Use care not to drill through into the deck above. I then screwed the ceiling slats to the battens. To make the battens I bought 2" thick (rough) spanish cedar boards, cut them into 1/2" x 2" strips, planed one side, then rounded the edges with a router. Teak is too expensive. I chose cedar because it is decay resistant, aromatic, has a good hue, and is about $5.40 a board foot. I finished the installation by rubbing in teak oil. I bought the lumber at a local lumber and millwork yard. Note this is a place which specializes in good woods, not a place to buy framing material for your house.

Also, some of the veneer around my ports has water damage. (Is this area referred to as the headliner, I've never been clear on this) Do you have any thoughts on how to repair or replace this without removing the ports and them reseating them once a new veneer is up. My concern is that without removing the ports the refinish work around the ports will look shoddy, but removing the ports and reseating them properly so no leaks occurs seems like a big job.

I had to replace this in my v-berth. It is 1/4" teak plywood. I planned to remove the ports. But they didn't leak and it was just too hard. Instead I removed the plywood flush with the port with a chisel. Then I installed battens as above. I think you could install a new layer of veneer on the old, or just reglue the existing veneer. Mine was charred so I did not have the option.

I will e-mail you some photos of the work. I don't know how to attach them to this thread.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC



wendelin@spawar.navy.mil