Help Needed Navigating NY Harbor/East River

[Brian McGowan]

A friend recently purchased a boat located in Mamaroneck NY and intends to bring it up to Lake Erie /Buffalo via Hudson River and Erie Canal. Looking for anyone with first hand NY harbor expeirence. A berth availble for that leg of trip. May also need assistance thru Canal / Hudson River legs.
Skipper is licensed Captain and boat is a Fuji 32.
NY departure planned for next weekend (6/17).

Brian
"Zephyrus" CD 25 #372
Buffalo

[Oswego John]

Hi Brian,

I can offer a few tips based on my past experiences in that area. When I passed through Hell Gate, I always tried to make it at close to slack tide. Half way between high and low tides is when there is the most turbulence, strong currents and eddies. When travelling the direction that you will be heading, I would try to time it so that I would pass through Hell Gate about one hour before dead low tide, when the current is minimal.

You will still have some current left to help you go south down the East River. It is about seven miles from Hell Gate to lower Manhattan and it should be about slack low tide as you round The Battery and enter the Hudson River. The beauty of this timing is that the tide is now rising and will help you sail Northward up the Hudson.

There are some marinas in the NY harbor vicinity, but I won't get into that at this time. I suppose that I would try to sail/motor up past the George Washington Bridge, maybe even past the Tappan Zee Bridge and your chances are much better for holing up for the night. BTW, if you get that far, you are now in Mark Yashinsky, Bill Goldsmith and Carter Brey's territory and they should be able to give you local info better than I.

FYI, Mamaroneck is located in Western Long Island Sound. It is about a ten mile trip Southward to the Throggs Neck Bridge and about another seven miles from the TNB Westward to Hell Gate. So basing your trip on an arbitrary 5 MPH, you can time your approach and passing through Hell Gate and use the tidal and river currents to your best advantage.

As to the Erie Canal passage, you can download valuable info on the NYS Canal System web site. Most locks, if not all provide ample, free tie up facilities for overnight stay after the locks close up for the night Keep in mind that you will have to drop your mast and rigging for the passage across the Erie Canal. Good luck. I envy you for the trip you are about to take.

Maybe you can make the GLF gettogether in August. It would be great to see you again.

Best regards.
O J

[Bill Goldsmith]

The most important thing is to time your passage through Hell Gate properly. Hell Gate is marked on the charts--it's almost directly under the Triborough Bridge.

I don't have my Eldridge's with me now so I don't have the times, but get a hold of a copy. There is a section in there that shows current flow in the East River, NY Harbor and the Hudson. The chart is repeated at hourly intervals.

You probably cannot and definitely should not try to make Hell Gate against the current in a sailboat.

The absolute best timing from Mamaroneck is to arrive at Hell Gate toward the end of the southerly flow, about an hour or two before the current changes north. This is about the same time that Oswego John recommended based on tides. You'll get an easy ride through Hell Gate, and you'll catch the beginning of the northerly (following) current up the Hudson.

If you make Hell Gate at the beginning of the southerly flow, you're fine, but you'll be bucking a few hours of southerly current on the Hudson once you round the Battery.

Make sure to take the WEST channel of the East River past Roosevelt Island (the channel between Roosevelt I and Manhattan). There's a low bridge on the east channel--no fun to realize that with a 2 to 3 knot following current.

As a point of reference I have made it from Stamford to Ossining in 11 hours the first way (catching the end of the fair current at HG), and City Island to Ossining in 11 hours the second way (catching the beginning of the fair current at HG).

I'd love to come but I have Father's Day plans!!

[ekfeldborg]

Brian,

You will have an adventure!

I grew up on the Hudson and made the trip from Poughkeepsie to Eastern Long Island Sound and back many times. Obviously get a good chart. The most exciting part of your trip will be making the passage from the Sound to the East River through a stretch of water called Hell's Gate. At max ebb or flood, standing waves of over 6 feet set up and just sit there. We always timed our passage for slack water and even then our 30' Pearson would get spun sideways with little warning. More fun than Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!

Down the East River and around the Battery of Manhattan is nice. I've always thought that NYC looks better from the water than anywhere else. If you can time it for evening, the city lights look beautiful.

Once on the Hudson, tides are worth planning for. Get a tide chart and try to ride the floods. They average almost 1 knot each way, so the differential (2 knots) is worth the time and gas. Don't quote me, but I remember it taking about 18 hours to go from Northport on LI to New Hamburg (above the Newburg-Beacon Bridge).

One more thing, there are numerous wide, low barges that run the river in each direction hauling crushed rock, etc. They have a nasty tendency to sneak up behind you when you're not looking. It takes them several miles to speed up, slow down or turn, earning them the privelige of right of way (even if they are overtaking). It's hard to protest when being keel-hulled!

I'm jealous and wish I could join you, but us school teachers have to stay to give those finals. Keep us posted about your trip.

Please wave to starboard for me when you pass New Hamburg Yacht Club.

[Carter Brey]

Hello, Brian--

You've gotten first-rate advice here. Timing, as they used to say on the vaudeville circuit, is everything.

Some figures:

On Friday, June 17th, you're looking at maximum ebb tide at Hell Gate at around 9:12am. There will be more than 4 knots of current setting south at that point. Slack occurs at around 12:45 pm.

Slack water at Throgs Neck occurs at 11:20 am.

Low water at Governor's Island, at the mouth of the East River in NY Harbor, occurs at 11:00am.

Slack water at the GW Bridge over the Hudson River occurs at about 3:15pm. Maximum flood hits at about 5:40pm. It will produce over 1.5 knots of current, setting north.

From R "42" off Mamaroneck to Throgs Neck is about 8.5 nm. From Throgs Neck to Mill Rock, in the middle of Hell Gate, is about 7.5 nm.

Okay now...

Let's say you want to arrive off the Battery about 2 hours after low water, around 1pm, in time to pick up the north-setting current up the Hudson without too much waiting around. You'd want to hit Hell Gate around noon. If you leave Mamaroneck at around 8:30 am, averaging a leisurely 5 knots (no problem with your nearly 25 feet of waterline), you'd arrive at Throgs Neck well before slack, about 10:15. Continuing at the same rate will put you off Mill Rock at 11:45, giving you a nice moderate push down the East River, arriving in the Harbor in plenty of time to cross over to the Hudson for the beginning of the flood.

Monitor channel 16 and never stop looking over your shoulder while transiting the East River as well as Upper NY Harbor. The commercial traffic is intense, and it comes up on you very quickly. Never hesitate to inform tug and ferry skippers of your intentions. You'll find they are good about doing the same.

You can thread your way between North and South Brother Islands once you're past Riker's. Deep draft vessels can't go there, but your Fuji 32 draws 4 feet or less of water.

Take the west channel past Roosevelt Island, as someone said.

Stay to the side of the channel whenever possible.

Charts, charts, charts. And a horn.

Besides tugs and their barges, watch for the Staten Island ferry and the tourist boats to Liberty and Ellis Islands as well as the high speed commuter multihulls operated by NY Waterways and the NY Water Taxi. This goes for the lower Hudson as well as the East River and the Upper Harbor.

Here's a link to my photo essay about a trip through the Gate a couple of years ago:

http://pws.prserv.net/cbrey/hellgate.html

Good luck. Wish I weren't working that day so I could join you!

Best regards,
Carter

[Cathy Monaghan]

Ditto what everybody else has already said. Make sure you have a copy of the 2005 Eldridge and/or Reed's Nautical Almanac for the East Coast -- don't leave the dock without it.

Regarding the East River -- don't let it scare you, I make that trip a few times each year. BUT, you must plan your trip to reach Hellgate at or around slack water. Why? If there's anything going on at the U.N., if the president's in town, there's any kind of shindig going on in NYC, or just because they feel like it, you might find the channel west of Roosevelt Island closed to pleasure boat traffic. If this is the case you'll have to use the channel on the east side of the island and there's a lift bridge on that side with vertical clearance of only 40 feet. You don't want to have to deal with that bridge at any time other than slack. So plan your trip based on the tides and currents and you'll be fine.

If your mast can clear that bridge then it's not an issue. Have a great trip!


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Jerry Price]

I just read this thread with a lot of interest! My wife and I will be heading through New York from Port Huron, MI late in the summer early in the fall on our way south to the Bahamas on our Bayfield 29.

Since I''ll be doing the opposite of what Brian McGowan is doing, going south instead of north, would it be in my best interest to head the advice given him, except do the opposite. For example, would I want to wait for Hellsgate to be at slack high tide before I cross through so I can ride the ebb down?


Thanks in Advance

Jerry Price
S/V WIndemere

[Oswego John]

Hi Jerry,

The good news is that you won't be passing through Hell Gate. After you leave the Erie Canal and sail southward down the Hudson River, after you pass Manhattan Island and The Statue of Liberty you have a straight shot southward.

The advice concerning tides and currents still apply. After boating in the Great Lakes, you will find that high and low tides become a very important factor in boating. The current will affect your journey down the Hudson, somewhat.

A general rule of thumb is that for every 24 hour day you will have two high tides and two low tides. They change from high to low about every six hours. Slack tides are when the lowering tide turns around and slowly starts to rise. Consequently, so too when the rising tide turns around and begins to fall. The current is least at slack tides and is greatest at mid tide.

Tom C., please write in and explain the "Rule of Twelves" again for us.

Another thing which may help you is when you are travelling on a river with a viable current effect, stay midstream when going with the current and stay toward shore when bucking the current. By all means, stay within the channel markers.

I'm sure that most people know that inland waterway buoys are different than oceanic salt water buoys. It will pay to familiarize yourself with the difference. Most boaters have a ready reference chart on hand.

Have a nice trip.
O J

[Elbows Wychulis]

Enjoyed your link with description of your 24 hour circumnavigation
of hells gate.

[Neil Gordon]

>>Slack tides are when the lowering tide turns around and slowly starts to rise.<<

Not neccessarily. The flood current may continue to run even as the tide is falling and vice versa. Eldridge has a good explanation of this. It's a good idea to check both tide and current tables.

>>... the "Rule of Twelves" ...<<

Of the tidal change, about 1/12 will occur in the first hour, 2/12 in the second, 3/12 in the third and fourth hour, 2/12 in the fifth hour and 1/12 in the sixth and last hour.

[Neil Gordon]

I assume that sailboats don't fit under the Harlem River bridges but can anyone give me specifics. Just curious.

[Cathy Monaghan]

2005 Tide Predictions: Hell Gate, Wards Island:
http://www.co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ ... 3&hl=*1.59

2005 Tidal Current Predictions - Hell Gate:
http://www.co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/currents ... GATE.shtml

2005 Tide Predictions: New York, The Battery:
http://www.co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ ... 7+New+York

For the East River, use the Tidal Current Predictions for Hell Gate and the Tide Predictions for The Battery. Enter the East River during the Flood as it's approaching Slack and time your trip to get to Hell Gate as close to Slack as possible in case the west channel around Roosevelt Island is closed and you have to wait for the Roosevelt Island lift bridge. You'll have to fight some current for a little while but it will be relatively weak at that point and will get weaker and weaker as you approach Hell Gate, so don't worry about it. Shortly after getting through Hell Gate the tide will turn and you'll be able to travel with the Ebb for the rest of your trip down the East River, down the Hudson, through the Narrows and past Sandy Hook.

Have a great trip,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Oswego John]

Hi Neil,

Right you are, Technically speaking, what you say is often true. I prefaced my statement with "AS a rule of thumb", speaking as a generalization. But yes, what you say is quite true.

There is something also to be regarded in the Hell Gate passageway. That would be wind, both it's direction and it's intensity.. The entire Long Island Sound passes through the Hell Gate funnel as it proceeds to the Atlantic. Any time that the wind is coming from the east for any extended duration, the water in the Sound is pushed westward where this vast volume of water is forced through the comparatively narrow Hell Gate. Noreasters are notorious for this.

Without going into much detail, I wanted to inform the Great Lakes boaters and make them aware of the phenoma of tides. There is very little, if any, tide action in the lakes. Wind will have some effect, though.

If you refer back to Carter's tide and current info, you will see that it backs up your statement. The tides and currents at Throgs Neck are different than The Battery as well as the lower Hudson. Yet, these areas are only a short distance from each other but fed by different sources.

Neil, it is only good that you, someone, anyone can take an idea or statement and expound on it to a greater degree. It only expands our understanding. Thanks.

Best regards,
O J

[Neil Gordon]

There is something also to be regarded in the Hell Gate passageway. That would be wind, both it's direction and it's intensity..

Great point.

My marina is surrounded by a stone breakwater which protects the slips very nicely. Two weeks ago, though, we had an astronomical high tide (two feet extra) and a nor'easter storm surge (two more feet extra). The extra four feet submerged the seawall and "lowered" the tops of the pilings holding the docks to about the height of the dock boxes. Put that four foot wall of water at the entrance of a narrow channel and the current will run strong enough to suck the buoys under.

Oh, one more thing about channels with strong currents. It's not just the ability to make a quick passage. The current doesn't always follow the channel and so too strong a current will do everything it can to take you out of the channel. Wood's Hole, MA, is a good example.

[Mark Yashinsky]

Other items to be aware of.
Both the East River and Hudson can/are loaded w/ commercial traffic, barges being pushed or pulled AND anchored and the many freighters blasting along. Besides avoiding them, watch out for their wakes, especially in the East River, where their wakes reflect off the close shoreline!! Watch out for whirlpools in the East River. Check current Notices and be aware of possible shoreline construction along the East River that may have half the river blocked to traffic by construction barges. Manhattan side, under the 59th St bridge has been one spot. HAVE LOOKOUTS!! Also check the Notices for security sensitive spots around Manhattan and remember Indian Point Nuke Plant, once north of Croton.
Besides that, have fun, take pictures, and tell us about it.