Hi everyone. Hope the weather is cooperating for you. It's not here in New England.
I have a question concerning mast rake on a Typhoon Weekender. The base of my mast has an angle to it, (not at 90 degrees) I assume this is to provide a flat seat while providing appropriate mast rake angle. The forward 1/3 of the base is the only part touching the tabernacle causing that 1/3 area of the mast base to take all the load no matter how I adjust the rig tension fore and aft.
What should the rake angle be (if any) and do all typhoons have an angled base?
I'll try posting pictures if need be.
Thanks in advance for help.
Steve
'Hardtack' - Ty # 369
Typhoon mast rake
Moderator: bobdugan
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Mast Rake
Hi Steve,
That's a unique name for your boat. I don't suppose that many of the younger generations know what hardtack is.
As far as the butt of your mast goes, the aft portion is cut away on purpose in order for it to pivot down without contacting the tabernacle base plate.
The rake isn't very much, maybe 2° or so. I base this on the fact that one of my Tys' mast is keel based, the rake is predetermined by the position of the base shoe on the cuddy sole and the opening in the cabin roof. I set my other tabernacle mounted Ty up about the same way. After the mast was set the way I was satisfied with, I marked the threads on the stay turnbuckles to arrive at the same setting year after year. I'm comfortable with this setup.
Unless you do a lot of racing, I don't think that you have to be too concerned with tuning your rigging to the nth degree. I know some diehards who purposefully cant the upper portion of their masts. They are aware that they are putting undue strain on the entire system. That's what competition will do to a guy.
Good luck
O J
Wearing shades in Sunny Oswego
That's a unique name for your boat. I don't suppose that many of the younger generations know what hardtack is.
As far as the butt of your mast goes, the aft portion is cut away on purpose in order for it to pivot down without contacting the tabernacle base plate.
The rake isn't very much, maybe 2° or so. I base this on the fact that one of my Tys' mast is keel based, the rake is predetermined by the position of the base shoe on the cuddy sole and the opening in the cabin roof. I set my other tabernacle mounted Ty up about the same way. After the mast was set the way I was satisfied with, I marked the threads on the stay turnbuckles to arrive at the same setting year after year. I'm comfortable with this setup.
Unless you do a lot of racing, I don't think that you have to be too concerned with tuning your rigging to the nth degree. I know some diehards who purposefully cant the upper portion of their masts. They are aware that they are putting undue strain on the entire system. That's what competition will do to a guy.
Good luck
O J
Wearing shades in Sunny Oswego
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Guest
Thanks John
I see what you mean now. With the horizontal pin engaged in the tabernacle slot, the mast would be unable to pivot if the mast base was flat and locked snug in place.
I've only owned the boat for 1 1/2 years and sailed her 1 season. She is getting a major structural overhaul this year. When I bought her in January 2004, it was 10 below zero outside so I failed to determine that there was water damage and delamination in most of the deck areas aft of the chainplates. The water had frozen solid. When I discovered the damage come springtime, I nearly had a HARD-a-TACK!
I have spent the last 2 months cutting sections of the top layer of fiberglass out with a 'Roto-Zip' tool (mini-router) stripping out the dripping wet balsa core and replacing the void with sandwiched layers of F.G. roving, luan plywood and FG Cloth and resin. A massive undertaking but I feel she is structurally sound now (but very ugly. I'll sail her this season and do the aesthetic work the next off- season. I'm thinking about posting photos on the board so everyone can witness the transition.
One thing I have learned is that drilling a series of holes to allow water to evaporate is a ridiculous notion. When I peeled away 10" X 6" sections of glass and scraped out the wet balsa, the adjacent balsa , still under the F.G. skin, remained soaking wet with the exception of about 1/4" of the edge. Even after several days of drying. I think that Drilling a 1" pattern of holes as 'vents' and then re-filling them with resin only creates a pattern of fiberglass 'posts', giving an illusion of rigidity in that region. Most of the moisture probably remains. This is more than likely a bigger problem in the north durring freezing periods where the water will expand and crack the gelcoat as well as delaminate from the core. But, I found some of the balsa had rotted too.
Thanks again for youf expertise
I see what you mean now. With the horizontal pin engaged in the tabernacle slot, the mast would be unable to pivot if the mast base was flat and locked snug in place.
I've only owned the boat for 1 1/2 years and sailed her 1 season. She is getting a major structural overhaul this year. When I bought her in January 2004, it was 10 below zero outside so I failed to determine that there was water damage and delamination in most of the deck areas aft of the chainplates. The water had frozen solid. When I discovered the damage come springtime, I nearly had a HARD-a-TACK!
I have spent the last 2 months cutting sections of the top layer of fiberglass out with a 'Roto-Zip' tool (mini-router) stripping out the dripping wet balsa core and replacing the void with sandwiched layers of F.G. roving, luan plywood and FG Cloth and resin. A massive undertaking but I feel she is structurally sound now (but very ugly. I'll sail her this season and do the aesthetic work the next off- season. I'm thinking about posting photos on the board so everyone can witness the transition.
One thing I have learned is that drilling a series of holes to allow water to evaporate is a ridiculous notion. When I peeled away 10" X 6" sections of glass and scraped out the wet balsa, the adjacent balsa , still under the F.G. skin, remained soaking wet with the exception of about 1/4" of the edge. Even after several days of drying. I think that Drilling a 1" pattern of holes as 'vents' and then re-filling them with resin only creates a pattern of fiberglass 'posts', giving an illusion of rigidity in that region. Most of the moisture probably remains. This is more than likely a bigger problem in the north durring freezing periods where the water will expand and crack the gelcoat as well as delaminate from the core. But, I found some of the balsa had rotted too.
Thanks again for youf expertise
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zach
Typhoon Rake
I had a question about rake too but only in the upper portion of the mast above the forestay. My friend Bob's Typhoon WHisp appears to have a good bend of a couple of inches above the forestay and shrouds. Both fore and back stays appears to be tensioned up ok....movable, not too twangy, easily turned-buckles (sic) by hand still. The sail appears to like this, as its shape and the leach and roach looks fine.
ANy thoughts? Being a fractional rig I am assuming it just is this way ( I have seen way more sever on many craft) and it does not appear to be too much a strain.
Laterally and prior to that height, the mast is straight.
Thanks,
Zach
technical help to Bob
Whisp - Beverly Farms MA
ANy thoughts? Being a fractional rig I am assuming it just is this way ( I have seen way more sever on many craft) and it does not appear to be too much a strain.
Laterally and prior to that height, the mast is straight.
Thanks,
Zach
technical help to Bob
Whisp - Beverly Farms MA
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John from Oswego
Typhoon Mast Rake
Zach,
To the best of my knowledge, Cape Dory masts came from the builder straight. I don't think that I have ever seen one with the upper half raked back on delivery. I am told that some racers deliberately put a set in their upper mast. With a fractional rig, after a person stepped his mast , he could adjust his forestay and lower shrouds to establish the normal rake on the lower portion of the mast. With the forestay holding the lower mast in position, he could haul in on the aft stay to bend the upper part of the mast to the desired arc and then tighten the upper shrouds
It's just possible that the PO did something like this on purpose and had sails tailored to this contour. Just a thought.
When your friend unsteps his mast, does it straighten out or is there a permanent set in it?
Very interesting,
J F O
To the best of my knowledge, Cape Dory masts came from the builder straight. I don't think that I have ever seen one with the upper half raked back on delivery. I am told that some racers deliberately put a set in their upper mast. With a fractional rig, after a person stepped his mast , he could adjust his forestay and lower shrouds to establish the normal rake on the lower portion of the mast. With the forestay holding the lower mast in position, he could haul in on the aft stay to bend the upper part of the mast to the desired arc and then tighten the upper shrouds
It's just possible that the PO did something like this on purpose and had sails tailored to this contour. Just a thought.
When your friend unsteps his mast, does it straighten out or is there a permanent set in it?
Very interesting,
J F O
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Rollergirl
- Posts: 87
- Joined: May 21st, '05, 14:27
- Location: Flying Scott, Sunfish
Bending over backwards
My Ty (#696, 1974) mast had a distinct turn rearwards above the spreaders. I just adjusted the shrouds and stays to about the same tension.
Now I'm sailing an Ensign (#303, 1963). With about the same tension on the shrouds and stays, the upper mast curves back. The old mastsections of this era usually seem to be fairly flexible.
Ensigns that race often use a variable tension backstay to great advantage. Easy to depower above 12 knots, and a great advantage over reefing for slightly higher wind speeds.
As far as basic mast position, I found that even with a extended backstay and cranking the forestay all the way down, I still had too much aft rake on my Ty. The weather helm got to be a chore after a while. My favorite sail combo for helm pressure was almost always the full main and #1.
The Ensign is about neutral as an Alberg design gets. Movable mast step, 3 shrouds a side. Delightful.
Good Luck
Bill
Now I'm sailing an Ensign (#303, 1963). With about the same tension on the shrouds and stays, the upper mast curves back. The old mastsections of this era usually seem to be fairly flexible.
Ensigns that race often use a variable tension backstay to great advantage. Easy to depower above 12 knots, and a great advantage over reefing for slightly higher wind speeds.
As far as basic mast position, I found that even with a extended backstay and cranking the forestay all the way down, I still had too much aft rake on my Ty. The weather helm got to be a chore after a while. My favorite sail combo for helm pressure was almost always the full main and #1.
The Ensign is about neutral as an Alberg design gets. Movable mast step, 3 shrouds a side. Delightful.
Good Luck
Bill
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zach
what a rake
Thanks for the thoughts
I will cehck when we unstep and keep an eye on any changes. It may be the previous owner but the sails are original!
fair breezes to all
I will cehck when we unstep and keep an eye on any changes. It may be the previous owner but the sails are original!
fair breezes to all