Orig '78 Standing rigging replacement?

[Trey]

I am considering replacing my standing rigging next fall, but want to be sure I am not wasting time and money. I am going to inspect my stays/shrouds this weekend, but an not sure what to look for. A 2003 survey did not comment (positive or negative) on the rigging. I have heard to use bronze wool to find breaks in the wire threading, and generally check for obvious wear and tear. Wind Song is a 1978 CD25 #667 with original...everything. Does age alone mean replacement? I talked to one person who said keep sailing until I notice "minor failure"...but this was from a guy who lost his boat during Isabel (in his case, 15 year old dock lines tend to fail 'majorly').

Thanks,
Trey

[Bill Michne]

Trey:

If the boat has been in fresh water all her life you may not need it, although you're wise to look into it on rigging of this age. The best approach is a rigging check, offered free at some boat yards. It consists of a visual inspection for obvious wear, fatigue weakness, etc. They then use a dye on the swaged fittings, looking for cracks that are not visible to the naked eye. All this is done both at deck level and mast top. My boat is an '85, and all the standing rigging has been replaced at least once that I know of.

Bill Michne
s/v Mintaka, CD 40

[bottomscraper]

Brion Toss has a video: Inspecting Your Rig

http://www.briontoss.com/

Also these 2 online references are worth reading:

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/rigging/default.asp

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/rigging.htm

[Frank Vernet]

Trey

The advice posted above is good. Normally, standing rigging ought to last 15 years in fresh water, less in salt. Your rigging is approaching 30 years old. I would be quite surprised if it passes an inspection at this point. My CD33 is a 1982 and the rigging has been replaced twice that I know of...but she spent a long time in the Caribbean. I would give serious consideratioin to replacing your rigging. Far less expensive than a total rig failure.

[Jim Sullivan]

I believe you should have the rigging checked by a reputable rigger and not a boatyard. I have an '83 CD22D which I had all the standing rigging replaced last year. The rigging all looked new and was determined to be so by the rigger (Hall Spars, Bristol, RI), however, due to the age of the boat , I decided to have it done. I took off all the shrouds and stays and labeled their location (ex. headstay, backstay, port lower forward, etc.). I brought the labeled rigging to Hall Spars and they made up all new wire and used the existing turnbuckles. I have a complete set of spare rigging now that actually looks new. For peace of mind, I am glad I replaced all the standing rigging even though it looked new. My reason for replacing the rigging was solely due to it age (ca. 21 years) and not on its appearance. Often, the signs of failure may not be that apparent. Sometimes, the wire can deteriorate within the swaged fitting and not be obvious on visual inspection.

[wayne greiner]

let me tell you-any rigging that's seen 25 years of service should be on the replacement list-why not do it over a period of time? say this year replace the back and headstay ( and turnbuckles) and next year do the port and starboard -then the year after do the uppers and lowers? keep the old ones for spares-the rigging on my 1974 cd 28 was replaced over a period of time several years ago (well I ended up with a new headstay and port stay and shrouds from hurricane bob-0in 1990-but the rest I just replaced about 5 years ago-so I got my use out of it without any failure-by the way-the 1st thing the rigger said when I brought the stays to him was that the rigging "was awfully beefy for a 28' boat)-that made me feel good-but remember -with a boat-put your money where you need it 1st-safety over cosmetics-you need new rigging before that new CD player or auto pilot-and the fun never stops in terms of putting money into the boat (actually the stays I replaced from hurricane bob in 1990 are now 15 years old-hmm-maybe I should thing about replacing them pretty soon-see what I mean?)

[Bruce Barber]

Trey,

I replaced my 1982 wire last year after 22 years in the Chesapeake environment. I just figured it was time, and that I might even be pushing my luck. There was nothing obvious that pointed to a problem -- no fishhooks, no discoloration, no detectable swage cracking -- but every time I was out in a blow, I said to myself "what's the worst that could happen?" and my answer was always that the rig could come crashing down. We don't know what's happening inside those swages. (I've intended to saw into a swage or two of the old wire to look for signs of deterioration, but so far haven't done it.)

Now I've got a "personal" data point, though the variables involved (quality of materials and swaging expertise, primarily) could equate to several years variation in lifetime. So I'll start worrying anew in 15 years or so.

FYI, I replaced in kind -- same material (304) and the original diameters. 316 has better corrosion resistance but isn't as strong, by 10 or 15%.

[winthrop fisher]

Hi Trey.

there are two ways any one can do this and it works.

1. take a rag and put it you hand and start at one end and pull the wire thru the rag and ever time it snags there is a break in the wire any more then two replace.
turnbuckes look for cracks or bends if you have then replace them.

2. take red dye and put it in water and run all your wires thru the dye, the dye will show you the cracks in the wire, replace if need be.

both of these work just fine and people have been using them for over thirty years plus.

standing rigging will last 15 to 20 years.
winthrop

I am considering replacing my standing rigging next fall, but want to be sure I am not wasting time and money. I am going to inspect my stays/shrouds this weekend, but an not sure what to look for. A 2003 survey did not comment (positive or negative) on the rigging. I have heard to use bronze wool to find breaks in the wire threading, and generally check for obvious wear and tear. Wind Song is a 1978 CD25 #667 with original...everything. Does age alone mean replacement? I talked to one person who said keep sailing until I notice "minor failure"...but this was from a guy who lost his boat during Isabel (in his case, 15 year old dock lines tend to fail 'majorly').

Thanks,
Trey

[Neil Gordon]

... keep the old ones for spares ...

Good point and it applies not only to rigging. I'll pass a comment I read in one of the sailing/cruising magazines a while ago... when you buy a spare, install it and keep the replaced part as the backup. You'll know the new one fits and works before it's an emergency and you'll know the backup both fits and works as well.

[Steve Laume]

I have read about changing out parts and keeping the old ones as spares that you are shure will fit. I have started that practice with belts and impellers. It does kind of remind me of the old Yankee farmer practice of saving all the old parts. I have seen barns with every old and broken part for every tractor ever owned at the place. It even goes back to the horse drawn days. I could never quite figure it out. Would a guy really decide to use those old spark plugs he changed out ten years ago when the parts store has new ones just down the road? The broken parts are a greater mystery. Maybe it is just because you pay so much for the new ones you just can't stand to throw the old one away. Well my point is that barns are a lot bigger than our boats and I don't know how many spare shrouds and stays I would want to keep on board. Of couse there is plenty of room in the barn but I'm still are not shure what good they will do there. The rigger is closer to my boat then my barn. Sooo, is there a fitting that can be used to modify your longest stay to do duty as any piece of wire on the boat? If you kept the dimensions of all the wires the longest one could be cut to length and used where needed. You could then get by with just keeping the one or two old stays aboard and figure on making up any wire you would need. It seems to me a little wire and a bunch of cable clamps would be as useful as a full set of rigging if the need were to arise. If I broke something I don't think I would have much faith in some old rigging I had taken off and stowed away somewhere. Then again I do have a few old spark plugs laying around, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

I have seen barns with every old and broken part for every tractor ever owned at the place.

Broken is different. But if you're going cruising and you get a spare bilge pump, it can pay to install the new one (makes sure it both fits and works) and keep the old one (which you know fits and works). Same with belts and the like. If it doesn't compromise storage space and doesn't require moving the boot stripe as the waterline sinks deeper, I'd opt to keep the old part on board.

[bottomscraper]

Ahh yes when my Dad passed away a few years ago I had to clean out his garage. Along with all the good stuff I must have found carburetors, starters, alternators, brake drums, spark plugs, heater cores and radios from every car he ever owned. Most had tags that said "broken" or "needs rebuild", I could never figure out why he kept them since he would never really use them again. If he really did need a new alternator for the truck he would go buy a new or rebuilt one. On the other hand I did find a bunch of old tractor magnetos that sold well on eBay!

[Steve Laume]

Rich, we could talk for a long time about the stuff our dads saved and wonder why. In dealing with my dads stuff I do not think he was ever more than 10 feet from a screwdriver anywhere in his domain. He did not label individual items but there were drawers full of stuff with labels like: radio parts, pliers, special tools and screwdrivers! I know he never threw a tool away, broken repairable or not. That set of drawers and their contents were old when we moved them from PA to DEL 25 years ago. Lots of old power tools that didn't work and it was hard for me to throw stuff away just because he had kept it so long. These were great men who lived through harder times than we can imagine. I still keep too much stuff and always think of a use for something I pitched sometime before. Things are cheap these days and I wonder if it's worth storing anything, Steve.

[Trey]

I generally used Winthrop's method, I did notice a couple breaks but nothing at all what I expected. However, I am going to have the rigging replaced based on age alone. Thanks, everyone, for the lessons on standing rigging. The barber shop pole analogy and longevity rules of thumb were very helpful.

I think I recall the owners manual having some great language about annual maintenance (I think it mentions wax among other things). Anyway, that seems to be a good resource.

Soon to be Re-Rigged...
-Trey