Thoughts on sea anchors and drogues for Cape Dory's

[LaVida]

I need to purchase storm gear and would like to hear the boards thoughts on choosing between either a sea anchor (a proper one, not a used airman's parachute) or a series drogue (the 116 cone unit).

Which would or do, you carry on board?

Your reasons behind your decision?

Know of any good sources for these units, any used units available?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Sea U,
Mike
LaVida
CD33

[JimL]

If you go to my website, you'll find a link at the bottom of the second page to get you to the official USCG report on series drogues. It is an awesome document, and based on my limited experience of running with warps, I'm sold. The advantage of positive control, low shock, reasonable recovery, and good durability are all outlined in the report. I'll put a link below to a company that is already manufacturing these.

Regards, JimL




http://seriesdrogue.com/
leinfam@earthlink.net

[winthrop]

Hi... i all was carry two sea anchors, one is a size larger for the boat and the other is a size smaller, i have all was carry two them on all the boats i have had from the typhoon to the morgan 41.
you will need them from time to time, it a must have on any boat that gos coastal.
winthrop

I need to purchase storm gear and would like to hear the boards thoughts on choosing between either a sea anchor (a proper one, not a used airman's parachute) or a series drogue (the 116 cone unit).

Which would or do, you carry on board?

Your reasons behind your decision?

Know of any good sources for these units, any used units available?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Sea U,
Mike
LaVida
CD33

imoutsailing2@yahoo.com

[Bruce Dart]

Mike, John Vigor's book, 'Outfitting the Cruising Sailboat' has an excellent section on the full range of heavy weather options, including drogues and parachute sea anchors, and when and how they are used. Highly recommended.

Fair winds (but be prepared!)

Bruce Dart
S/V Wings O' Morning
CD25 #755



brucedart@yahoo.com

[John Vigor]

Hi Bruce: Sorry to have to correct you, but the name of the book is actually "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat." I am not a fan of para-anchors, partly because of the incredible hassle and danger of trying to launch that mass of nylon and strings on a heaving boat in a storm without getting dragged overboard with it or watching it wrap itself irrevocably around the propeller and rudder. Few boats with underbodies like Cape Dories will lie bow-on to the seas behind a para-anchor. If your boat won't heave-to and remain in its own "slick" then I'd recommend running with drogues, as long as you have searoom. I'm a great fan of the Jordan series drogue, for the many reasons discussed in the book, but it can be expensive. An old car tire or two, weighed down with an anchor or chain at the end of 200-feet of half-inch nylon will do the trick if it's adjusted correctly to the length of the swells. Not elegant, and not as efficient as the Jordan drogue, but could be a lifesaver when you need to bring down the boatspeed while running under bare poles.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

John V.

Mike, John Vigor's book, 'Outfitting the Cruising Sailboat' has an excellent section on the full range of heavy weather options, including drogues and parachute sea anchors, and when and how they are used. Highly recommended.

Fair winds (but be prepared!)

Bruce Dart
S/V Wings O' Morning
CD25 #755

[George Shaunfield]

If you go to my website, you'll find a link at the bottom of the second page to get you to the official USCG report on series drogues. It is an awesome document, and based on my limited experience of running with warps, I'm sold. The advantage of positive control, low shock, reasonable recovery, and good durability are all outlined in the report. I'll put a link below to a company that is already manufacturing these.

Regards, JimL

Jim, thanks for the link to the USCG report. It was a lot to read, but worthwhile. Pretty convincing that the series drogue is the better choice.

George



georgeSPAMNOT @ accountron.com

[Greg Kozlowski]

I would generally concur with John Vigor re the sea anchor: It is a difficult piece of gear to deploy in the conditions you may require it. On the other hand, having said that, we have met numerous circumnavigators who swear it saved the boat. We do not carry a sea anchor.

However, we do carry a Galerider drogue which I have never deployed. As far as drogues are concerned, I would again agree with John that an old tire with lots of thick rope will do the trick just as well. As for the Jordan series drogue, read the pros and cons closely. Personally I would not use it as I have read numerous reports that the cones sink and tend to pull the stern down.

For what it's worth, when faced with ocean gale or storm conditions on Sherpa, our CD36, what has eventually worked for us is to run with it on the quarter with storm canvas on and good speed. When on ocean passages, Sherpa tends to be a bit ass heavy as all of the anchors are stored aft and what she does is squat with her bow well out and surf. I am seldom on the helm in such conditions as the Aries always handles the corrections no problem. I do not recommend this lest you should broach or pitchpole, but it has worked well for us.

Greg
s/v Sherpa,
Marmaris, Turkey

[LaVida]

Some very good information has been presented. As in all things boating, nothing is a full stop answer, there must always be compromise.

I've successfully used John's tire method in a couple of my Atlantic crossings. One crossing we punched through the tires, bolted on a swivel, then sawed slits in the tire walls (on the trailing side) so they would open up and create even more drag. That coupled with a bit of chain on the last tire worked quite well.

However LaVida will be packed to the hilt for the crossing, so there will be no room to store such fixed sized objects below. They would have to be stored on deck and raises concern they could present a further drag problem during a boarding sea.

I've also had occasion to use a sea anchor on a workboat during a nasty bit of weather in the North Sea a few years back. It was quite a large one and we even had a knuckle crane to manhandle it. Even then it was a real nightmare to retrieve.

With all the information I’ve been able to collect and the thoughts expressed here, I'm leaning towards the series drogue.

Now the next question is rigging the bridle necessary for the drogue.

I’m wondering if I should beef up the backing plates on the aft horn cleats. I understand the loads imposed by the drogue can be substantial.

I’ve never found them lacking so far, but…………:-)


Thanks again to all of you for your comments.


Mike
LaVida
CD33

[Bruce Dart]

And what's really embarressing is that I've got the book sitting on my bookshelf.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Bruce



brucedart@yahoo.com

[Greg Kozlowski]

I changed both forward and aft cleat backing plates on Sherpa to 5 by 5 1/4 aluminum. Don't know what you have on the CD33, but on the 36 the original ones seemed too small. You might also consider installing oversized mid-ship cleats if you have not done so yet. These have proven to be very useful for us.
Greg

Some very good information has been presented. As in all things boating, nothing is a full stop answer, there must always be compromise.

I've successfully used John's tire method in a couple of my Atlantic crossings. One crossing we punched through the tires, bolted on a swivel, then sawed slits in the tire walls (on the trailing side) so they would open up and create even more drag. That coupled with a bit of chain on the last tire worked quite well.

However LaVida will be packed to the hilt for the crossing, so there will be no room to store such fixed sized objects below. They would have to be stored on deck and raises concern they could present a further drag problem during a boarding sea.

I've also had occasion to use a sea anchor on a workboat during a nasty bit of weather in the North Sea a few years back. It was quite a large one and we even had a knuckle crane to manhandle it. Even then it was a real nightmare to retrieve.

With all the information I’ve been able to collect and the thoughts expressed here, I'm leaning towards the series drogue.

Now the next question is rigging the bridle necessary for the drogue.

I’m wondering if I should beef up the backing plates on the aft horn cleats. I understand the loads imposed by the drogue can be substantial.

I’ve never found them lacking so far, but…………:-)


Thanks again to all of you for your comments.


Mike
LaVida
CD33

[Dana]

Does anyone have any knowledge in the use of a Sea Squid? This is a tall orange cone with several lateral openings on its sides. A large hook is at the top to attach the chain and rode. I picked one up for Gladys Erzella but only because it was at a reasonable price and it looked like it could do a fair job in rough seas. But I've never used it. Just curious if its any good or should I look in series drogues?
Thanks
Dana



gladyserzella@netscape.net

[Tom]

I have one, and used it when I got caught out in a 60 knot blow off of Catalina ten years ago. It worked OK and I didn't broach, but it didn't really slow the boat down enough. I was still doing 8-9 knots towing it on 150 feet of line with bare poles. You'd probably need two or three of them (or more?)in series to really slow the boat down.

Does anyone have any knowledge in the use of a Sea Squid? This is a tall orange cone with several lateral openings on its sides. A large hook is at the top to attach the chain and rode. I picked one up for Gladys Erzella but only because it was at a reasonable price and it looked like it could do a fair job in rough seas. But I've never used it. Just curious if its any good or should I look in series drogues?
Thanks
Dana

[Bill Oyster]

I investigated series drogues myself but found a couple of issues for the small boat sailor. First off to use the correct length of line with the many cones attached, we're talking about quite a large package to stow and deploy. Even more than that problem is the issue of retrieval. I read that a winch should not be used for retrieval because as the line coils up it tends to rip the attached parachutes and can jam on retrieval. This leaves you with a need to use the engine to hold stationary during retrieval and pull it in by hand, of course the line is launched from the stern, awfully close to the prop. As others have mentioned, on a full keel boat with the cutaway forefoot the bow will always try to fall away from the wind (as we all know from backing out of our slips) so stern rigged gear makes sense since this is the boats natural position. A more practical idea might be the Galerider. It folds into its own bag and because it has a single line it can be retrieved by a winch without problem. In actual cases many found that it could be used on a relatively short line also and still be effective. One circumnavigator (on a 27 footer), deployed the Galerider and sheeted a storm jib flat amidships to aid in directional stability. Of course these are not my experiences and I won't complain if I NEVER have any of my own, but if I did I would try to heave-to under main or trysail alone, and if I had to fall off I would use the device that was the easiest to launch and retrieve since NOTHING will be easy in those conditions! Let us know what you decide.

Bill



oystersb@mindspring.com

[John R.]

Some interesting remarks in this thread and also at the "series drouge" linked website. I own both a Para Anchor and a Gale Rider which I have for my CD30. I have never had to deploy either of them in the past and hope that day never comes that either are seriously needed. I did experiment a couple of times with deploying and retrieving the Gale Rider. The Para Anchor has a lot of shrouds attached to it and they are tape wrapped so I never bothered to try and experiment with it otherwise I would have to repack everything carefully to keep things from tangling. The Gale Rider is easy to deploy and retrieve. I really like the design of it, simple and self forming with the integral wire hoop at the mouth of the webbing basket. It's a design that is difficult to foul during deployment, it would be very rare I think to get the rode tangled somehow amongst the webbing. The thing is beautifully made and extremely heavy duty. Also, a side benefit is that it makes for a great device to retrieve just about anything sizable that goes overboard because it can be suspended from the boom like a big scoop. Great gear for retrieving a man overboard. Both the Gale Rider and the Para Anchor are very well made. I originally purchased the Para Anchor because of the high acclaim the Pardey's have for it. I like the Para Anchor because it can also serve as a wrap for the hull if it is holed and can even be rigged as a pseudo sail if necessary. The Para Anchor folks always have a wealth of good info regarding heavy weather preparations and how to manage threatening seas, they are great because they speak sailor "speak". It is interesting to read the claims regarding the series drouge in comparison to a sea chute type anchor. i'm notsure what to make of their remarks because they are promoting a product. The Coast Guard testing is a different matter. I think if I had to have only one device I would opt for the Gale Rider as the the best all around device just based on design and ease of handling and it is effective, cuts my 30's boat speed approximately 2/3's. FWIW

I need to purchase storm gear and would like to hear the boards thoughts on choosing between either a sea anchor (a proper one, not a used airman's parachute) or a series drogue (the 116 cone unit).

Which would or do, you carry on board?

Your reasons behind your decision?

Know of any good sources for these units, any used units available?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Sea U,
Mike
LaVida
CD33

[Oswego John]

Hi Mike,

I've been reading this thread with much interest. I thought that maybe I'd toss in a few thoughts of my own. When you mentioned using John V's idea of towing a tire(s), you said the magic word, SWIVEL.

There is one practice that I have used since early on, and that is whenever I tow anything with line, somewhere I add a swivel. This is especially true when using three strand, twisted line.It is a must on a permanent mooring.

I think that it is a very good idea to beef up the aft, horn cleat backing plates. The load from a drogue can be substantial. An even higher load is produced when a single drogue pulls free from the side of a wave, skips across the trough and then grabs new water. This produces a sudden jerk on the cleat(s) and this hammering pressure, in my mind, is much greater than the steady pressure derived from a series of drogues. Using a series of well spaced drogues, there should always be at least one drogue grabbing water to retard and prevent jerking on the cleat(s).

There are several ways that you might spread the total drag load among several cleats, bits and sampson posts. It's probably better and safer to distribute the load than to depend on one or two cleats.

The following thought may not apply to towing a drogue but I'll mention it now if anyone should have to be towed in rough seas. We had a prefabbed harness made up that was slung behind and across the transom of the boat to be towed. The harness ran along either freeboard and was connected at the bow of the towed boat, employing the use of a stout swivel. Several smaller lines were laid athwartship and connected to the harness to suspend it and keep it in place.

In a rough sea, the towed boat was pulled by the entire hull and not dependent on the holding strength of a bow cleat and the resulting hammering it would surely endure. Just my 2¢. Good luck in your fitting out.

Oswego John
Any white stuff last night?
We had a few flurries, 5" or 6" total
We don't call it snow until it measures 20" or more

Some very good information has been presented. As in all things boating, nothing is a full stop answer, there must always be compromise.

I've successfully used John's tire method in a couple of my Atlantic crossings. One crossing we punched through the tires, bolted on a swivel, then sawed slits in the tire walls (on the trailing side) so they would open up and create even more drag. That coupled with a bit of chain on the last tire worked quite well.

However LaVida will be packed to the hilt for the crossing, so there will be no room to store such fixed sized objects below. They would have to be stored on deck and raises concern they could present a further drag problem during a boarding sea.

I've also had occasion to use a sea anchor on a workboat during a nasty bit of weather in the North Sea a few years back. It was quite a large one and we even had a knuckle crane to manhandle it. Even then it was a real nightmare to retrieve.

With all the information I’ve been able to collect and the thoughts expressed here, I'm leaning towards the series drogue.

Now the next question is rigging the bridle necessary for the drogue.

I’m wondering if I should beef up the backing plates on the aft horn cleats. I understand the loads imposed by the drogue can be substantial.

I’ve never found them lacking so far, but…………:-)


Thanks again to all of you for your comments.


Mike
LaVida
CD33