Got any suggestions for sanding teak?

[Mike Everett]

Before too long, the crew of s/v Dr. Pepper will remove her frame and tarp and set about stripping and refinishing all of her brightwork.
Our main question is -- What are the proper tools? We've got a Makita orbital sander for the flat surfaces, but we'd like to buy a good electric sander for all those hard-to-reach concavities. We'd prefer a decent cordless unit, if such a thing is possible.
We'd be grateful to learn of your experiences with brightwork sanding, and especially would like your recommendations for sanders.




everett@megalink.net

[J. Kuehn]

Mike

We own a CD 26, and maintaining the teak on even a "small" CD is a chore for sure. My teak is not varnished. I like it that way as I can use oil to produce a beautiful look very quickly. I've discovered a quick and easy way to prepare the teak for the oil - pressure wash. At first I feared I might actually damage the teak due to the high pressure, but after many cleanings and close monitoring, I find the pressure from our typical portable washer just isn't high enough to damage the wood. It is high enough to blast the "silvering" off the surface very quickly. I find I can clean up the whole boat in about 30 minutes. By the way, the pressure washer is the ONLY way to clean the rest of the exterior as well. It will quickly blast all dirt and scum off the deck surfaces, as well as in the cracks and crevices that are hard to reach.

Good Luck!

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Mike,
I haven't done it yet, but plan to strip all of Hanalei's teak as soon as the cover comes off. I'm planning to sand down all the small stuff, and possibly use a water based stripper for the big areas like cockpit coamings. I purchased one of Ryobi's detail sanders for the hard to get at places. It seems to be a quality unit, but it is 110v powered. I wouldn't think a battery powered sander would last long enough to sand much teak.

I like the answer you got just before this post of mine. A pressure washer sounds like a good idea, IF the teak hasn't been varnished. It also sounds like a good idea for general deck cleaning, get at all those hard to access areas.

Once I get all the old stuff off, I'm planning on using TuffShield to finish it off. Used it on my brother's CD-30 and didn't do anything except touch up rub marks for 3 years! It's expensive(2 part), but I think worth it. I'll be watching this site to see if anyone else has a very good way of doing it....thanks for the post....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)

[Bob Ohler]

Mike, the idea of the Ryobi sander is a good one. I bought a Porter Cable detail finishing sander kit for this same purpose. It uses a similar diamond shaped paper but also allows for the attachment of convex, concave and small flat attachments as well. There will be areas that must be done by hand...the used diamond papers are great for these spots! The sander does such nice job; I often use it in the workshop as a small general finishing sander. Buy plenty of the diamond shaped sheets....especially the 80 grit! This will be your workhorse for the bulk of the rough wood removal. Don't rush the job. After you have the wood as smooth as you want it, clean it with a liquid teak cleaner, then bleach it with a liquid teak brightener,(read the label on BOTH these products!!!!) then vacuum, then tack rag, then start with your finish. Remember, only the toe rails must be done while the boat is out of the water. Just about everything else can be done after she's back in the water.
Keep telling yourself, it's a labor of love!
Good Luck!
Bob Ohler
CD25D
sv "Aloha Spirit"



bobohler@chesapeake.net

[Steve]

Last summer I stripped both coamings & handrails of my 25D. I took the suggestion of someone on this board and purchased a heat gun. It worked wonderfully. I basically used the heat gun to remove most of the varnish and then finished the job with a random-orbital sander and then a final hand sanding (with the grain). Of course some care is needed when using a heat gun, but it wasn't too difficult to master. It might be tricky to use, however, on the caprail due to the proximity to the fiberglass (perhaps a heat deflector could be used). Of all the strippers I have used for varnish, Marine Peel Away was the least onerous. Good luck.

Before too long, the crew of s/v Dr. Pepper will remove her frame and tarp and set about stripping and refinishing all of her brightwork.
Our main question is -- What are the proper tools? We've got a Makita orbital sander for the flat surfaces, but we'd like to buy a good electric sander for all those hard-to-reach concavities. We'd prefer a decent cordless unit, if such a thing is possible.
We'd be grateful to learn of your experiences with brightwork sanding, and especially would like your recommendations for sanders.

[Ryan Turner]

I'm almost finished stripping and refinishing the brightwork on Zenobia -- CD33 hull no. 100. After much discussion with local sailors and a good bit of trial and error I found that the best way to remove old finishes and prepare the teak for the new finish was to:

1) use a heat gun to soften up the old finish
2) scrape the softened and bubbled old finish off (buy a good scraper and be sure to have a bastard file on hand to periodically sharpen as you go)
3) sand until you get a good smooth finish. Start with 80 grit, then go to 100 or 120 grit.
4) get a new coat of finish on quickly so you can protect that great looking wood.

I went with Cetol as it's supposed to be less work to maintain than varnish. It sounds like there may be better products out now (Armada, etc.)

Good luck!

Before too long, the crew of s/v Dr. Pepper will remove her frame and tarp and set about stripping and refinishing all of her brightwork.
Our main question is -- What are the proper tools? We've got a Makita orbital sander for the flat surfaces, but we'd like to buy a good electric sander for all those hard-to-reach concavities. We'd prefer a decent cordless unit, if such a thing is possible.
We'd be grateful to learn of your experiences with brightwork sanding, and especially would like your recommendations for sanders.

rdtec@aol.com

[John Nuttall]

I am Ryan's dockmate, and I've been watching and taking notes. His system is working great. I am not going to mess with strippers - I've done that on furniture and it is a mess!!! The heat and scrape method he is using is quicker ,cleaner, and faster. Ryan's doing a wonderful job, and Zenobia is really looking good. Ryan and I have had many a discussion (over grog, of course!) about Cetol vs Armada vs Tuff Shield. Maybe I am nuts, but I really like the look of Varnish. So with much reservation, I am going to use "Captains". If I am about to make a fatal mistake somebody stop me, cause March is brightwork month for me !!!

John Nuttall
CD31 #28
"Aimless"

ps- George & Tom (CD31 #29 & 15), thanks for all your help with the Perry Nut thing....I went to West Marine and got the "C" prop zinc.






nuttallj@msn.com

[John]

Before too long, the crew of s/v Dr. Pepper will remove her frame and tarp and set about stripping and refinishing all of her brightwork.
Our main question is -- What are the proper tools? We've got a Makita orbital sander for the flat surfaces, but we'd like to buy a good electric sander for all those hard-to-reach concavities. We'd prefer a decent cordless unit, if such a thing is possible.
We'd be grateful to learn of your experiences with brightwork sanding, and especially would like your recommendations for sanders.

Mike;
Here's the method I use:
Strip old finish with a heat gun and good quality scrapers, I use cabinet scrappers as well, they are a real plus. Don't overheat the caulk or bedding compound.

Next sand with 80 grit "no fill" paper. I prefer Adalox brand.

Next sand with 150 grit "no fill" paper. Adalox again.

Vacuum all teak surfaces.

Clean teak with a "single part" teak cleaner. Do not use a two part cleaner unless you are doing a dirty deck or something similar. Two part cleaners will raise the grain of your newly
sanded teak. Don't scrub with a brush while cleaning the teak.
use a sponge. Rinse thoroughly.

Next use a pre-mixed teak brightener or make your own using oxalic acid and warm water. The acid is available from any hardware store.
Apply it to the teak with a chip (throw away) brush or a sponge.
Do it in full sun. The sun enhances the bleaching action of the acid. Let it soak about 5 - 30 minutes depending on the strength of your acid mix. Keep the surface wet with the acid mix. Then thoroughly rinse with copious amounts of fresh clean water. Let dry THOROUGHLY! If it isn't brightened enough just repeat the acid step again.

Wipe down the teak with acetone to remove any resin from the surface of the teak that may form. You won't necessarily see the resin but rest assured its there, use the acetone.

Once the acetone evaporates completely, tack rag the surface and apply your first coat of the finish you have chosen to use. Follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter. That last point can't be stressed enough. I've seen to many people compromise the finish by doing what they thought was "good enough", professionals included.

I use a Dewalt random orbital sander, a Makita orbital block sander, a Porter Cable "Speed Block" orbital block sander (great sander), an air DA sander, a Porter Cable detail sander, a firm block hand sander, a soft pad hand sander, all sorts of miscellaneous homemade crevice and corner sanders made from such things as aluminum, wood dowel, brass rod, etc.,. Whatever gets the job done efficiently and properly. I praise the Porter Cable detail sander as well as one made by FEIN. Both are real time savers.

[John]

I am Ryan's dockmate, and I've been watching and taking notes. His system is working great. I am not going to mess with strippers - I've done that on furniture and it is a mess!!! The heat and scrape method he is using is quicker ,cleaner, and faster. Ryan's doing a wonderful job, and Zenobia is really looking good. Ryan and I have had many a discussion (over grog, of course!) about Cetol vs Armada vs Tuff Shield. Maybe I am nuts, but I really like the look of Varnish. So with much reservation, I am going to use "Captains". If I am about to make a fatal mistake somebody stop me, cause March is brightwork month for me !!!

John Nuttall
CD31 #28
"Aimless"

ps- George & Tom (CD31 #29 & 15), thanks for all your help with the Perry Nut thing....I went to West Marine and got the "C" prop zinc.

Your not nuts!! "Captains" is still one of the most elegant looking finishes there is. A truly traditional look of beauty. It's all in the preparation. Only sand your intermediate coats with 220 grit. For the final coat use 280, max 320. A key to remember is that the striation scratches caused by the prep sanding under the final coat can defract the light to a great enough degree that it will burn the varnish off from under the final coat, causing very fine cracks and splits. Then the moisture gets in and thats the end of anything you painstakingly applied. Thats why you don't want to use any grit coarser than 280 prior to the final coat but also nothing finer either or you won't get a satisfactory bite and the finish will lift over time.

[Donna Delahanty]

John,

I, too, like the looks of varnished teak. For many years I used Epiphanes varnish on our CD25. When done properly and maintained, it looked great. I did find varnish is not very forgiving when not maintained. It is so easy in the spring after not sailing all winter to forgo the varnish "just one more weekend" because you just want to get out on the water. Then the next weekend when you intend to varnish, it is raining. The varnish has to wait another week. This could go on for several weekends. (I live four hour from our boat, so weekends are the only time I have). Pretty soon the varnish starts "checking". Once varnish gets "checked", it must be stripped down to bare wood and coats reapplied. I tried sanding the "checked" varnish coats without stripping to see what would happen and found that the new coats dulled within a couple of weeks. Varnish does look great, but, if you live as far away from the boat as I do, maintaining it can be difficult. In a ten year period, I had to strip the varnish down to bare wood about three or four times. This, I feel, is too much. Some friends of mine have have the same varnish on their boat for over 11 years. Yes, there are areas that they have to take down to bare wood, but, they never have had to totally strip the wood. They live much closer to the boat, so maintaining is not a problem for them.

When we purchased another boat, two years ago, we decided to use TuffShield with a glossy finish. IT LOOKS LIKE VARNISH. So far it has held up remarkably. Absolutely no lifing of the finish as varnish can do. The maintenance required is to lightly sand and reapply the top coat each year. If you would like some detailed information about TuffShield, I can look up some of my past replies I have made on it.

No, I don't think one can ever be making a fatal mistake to use varnish, as long as it is properly maintained. If you think maintenance will be a problem, you may want to use another product that is less maintenence. I found TuffShield to fit that bill and give me that varnished brightwork finish that I like.

Donna

I am Ryan's dockmate, and I've been watching and taking notes. His system is working great. I am not going to mess with strippers - I've done that on furniture and it is a mess!!! The heat and scrape method he is using is quicker ,cleaner, and faster. Ryan's doing a wonderful job, and Zenobia is really looking good. Ryan and I have had many a discussion (over grog, of course!) about Cetol vs Armada vs Tuff Shield. Maybe I am nuts, but I really like the look of Varnish. So with much reservation, I am going to use "Captains". If I am about to make a fatal mistake somebody stop me, cause March is brightwork month for me !!!

John Nuttall
CD31 #28
"Aimless"

ps- George & Tom (CD31 #29 & 15), thanks for all your help with the Perry Nut thing....I went to West Marine and got the "C" prop zinc.

maxg@fuse.net

[Ed Haley]

I used Peel-Away one time when I was beginning to remove the varnish on my CD28. I'll never use it again. I created more trouble and still, after two years, I'm cleaning up Peel-Away from cracks and crevices. I ended up (after a steep learning curve) using the heat gun to soften the varnish and then using a mechanical cabinet varnish scraper the remove the multiple layers. As stated elsewhere, sanding and cleaning and using a tackcloth before putting on Cetol Marine (3 coats) and then Cetol Gloss (3 coats). Whichever way you choose, you can be sure it's a lot of man-hours. Your final look will be a measure of your dedication to making your boat look like a thing of beauty.



eghaley@dreamscape.com

[Steve]

In contrast, I have successfully used Marine Peel Away several times, all with good results. I wonder what the difference is? I simply applied the remover, layered the paper cloth on top, and then waited for specified time. After peeling off the paper cloth and attached varnish, I scraped off the remaining varnish/remover and then cleaned up with the Peel away solvent (isopropyl alcohol-based, I believe) and then washed down with water and a brush. I haven't had any problem removing residue from boat crevices or cracks.

I used Peel-Away one time when I was beginning to remove the varnish on my CD28. I'll never use it again. I created more trouble and still, after two years, I'm cleaning up Peel-Away from cracks and crevices. I ended up (after a steep learning curve) using the heat gun to soften the varnish and then using a mechanical cabinet varnish scraper the remove the multiple layers. As stated elsewhere, sanding and cleaning and using a tackcloth before putting on Cetol Marine (3 coats) and then Cetol Gloss (3 coats). Whichever way you choose, you can be sure it's a lot of man-hours. Your final look will be a measure of your dedication to making your boat look like a thing of beauty.

[Carl Jones]

Before too long, the crew of s/v Dr. Pepper will remove her frame and tarp and set about stripping and refinishing all of her brightwork.
Our main question is -- What are the proper tools? We've got a Makita orbital sander for the flat surfaces, but we'd like to buy a good electric sander for all those hard-to-reach concavities. We'd prefer a decent cordless unit, if such a thing is possible.
We'd be grateful to learn of your experiences with brightwork sanding, and especially would like your recommendations for sanders.

My method is very simple. Just sand it with 80 grit and a good palm sander until all the old finish is gone and the teak is clean. Unless it has been stained with oil or previously been weathered, it will come out bright and beautiful. No need to bleach it unless you prefer that look. Then coat it with your favorite finish. The first coat will soak in real good. Subsequent coats will fill the grain to a mirror surface. You can overcoat some finishes without sanding. Some just require a light sanding with 220. This is the method I used for many years on my previous boat, a wooden 25 footer. Almost everything was varnished, including the hull. I always used Schooner varnish. She turned heads everywhere.
I used a product called Honey Teak by C-Tech on my caprails 3 years ago and they still look good. It is difficult to apply though, so they have a new product that is less expensive and is easy to apply and is just as durable. I love the look of Schooner varnish but don't have time for it anymore. This stuff looks a lot closer to it than Cetol. They advertise in Wooden Boat. My boat lives in the harsh sun of Texas.
Carl Jones
S/V Spanish Eyes
CD 30 Cutter



GreatCells@aol.com

[Ed Haley]

Just noticed your post regarding Peel-Away. When applied according to the directions (in the same manner you described) when the residue dried, the wind carried the white powder from my teak to just about every imaginable nook, cranny and crevice on the boat. After removing the Peel-Away and prepping for Cetol, the blown powder appeared while brushing Cetol and landed on the still-wet surface. I'm still finding the powder when I remove various fittings. I did manage to finish the teakwork on very calm days. Perhaps, had I powerwashed the deck, I could have made the job easier. (I hesitate to say next time because I hope I don't have to do that job again, hahaha!).

I just visited Jasmine on 2/24 and the Cetol has held up beyond my highest expectations. However, I will use fine sandpaper and put a couple of coats of Cetol on again. Somehow it is more enjoyable (is that the right word???) to put a couple of coats of Cetol over a surface that looks exquisite rather than have to place two coats over a surface that has half peeled off.

Ed Haley
S/V Jasmine
CD28 Hull #272



eghaley@dreamscape.com