I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
Steve.alarcon@attws.com
CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jon Larson
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Steve,
My old PERI was exactly like your boat, I don't know why it was that way, but that was the way it was. I would NOT add additional weight to the bow to 'correct' this as weight in the ends of about tend to reinforce the tendancy to pitch or hobbyhorse which can really slow you down in a sea way.
I learned to like the way she sat after a while.
Jon Larson
jon9@ix.netcom.com
My old PERI was exactly like your boat, I don't know why it was that way, but that was the way it was. I would NOT add additional weight to the bow to 'correct' this as weight in the ends of about tend to reinforce the tendancy to pitch or hobbyhorse which can really slow you down in a sea way.
I learned to like the way she sat after a while.
Jon Larson
Steve Alarcon wrote: I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
jon9@ix.netcom.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
>>I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.<<
Where's the water tank? Mine is under the v-berth and LIQUIDITY rides high when the tank is near empty or so. Also, was the water heater and two batteries part of the original plan?
Btw, I have about 800 lbs of lead ballast I took out of LIQUIDITY's bilge, placed there by the former owner for reasons unknown to me. It's a long way to ship it to Seattle, though.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
Where's the water tank? Mine is under the v-berth and LIQUIDITY rides high when the tank is near empty or so. Also, was the water heater and two batteries part of the original plan?
Btw, I have about 800 lbs of lead ballast I took out of LIQUIDITY's bilge, placed there by the former owner for reasons unknown to me. It's a long way to ship it to Seattle, though.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
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Ed Haley
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
My CD28 sort of squatted the same way when I first acquired her. I figured that she rested that way since I usually do not add water to the water tanks when I sail. I do, however, load the ice box with beer, ice, water and other heavy items aft. I just repainted the boot stripe so that it was level and all is well. Jasmine sails lively and that's about all that matters. I wouldn't take any drastic action and change her ballast. Like a lovely lady, she's merely changing her curves as she matures.
eghaley@dreamscape.com
eghaley@dreamscape.com
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DON
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
WHEN YOURE FLYING AT 7.5 KNOTS IN 25 KNOTS OF WIND THE WATER LINE IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE. BE GLAD YOURE IN A CAPE DORYJon Larson wrote: Steve,
My old PERI was exactly like your boat, I don't know why it was that way, but that was the way it was. I would NOT add additional weight to the bow to 'correct' this as weight in the ends of about tend to reinforce the tendancy to pitch or hobbyhorse which can really slow you down in a sea way.
I learned to like the way she sat after a while.
Jon Larson wrote: Jon Larson
Steve Alarcon wrote: I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
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Steve Alarcon
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Neil,
Thanks for the offer of the lead. You might do better selling it for scrap locally. Out here, it "retails" for about a buck a pound. I'm sure it would cost more than that to truck it out here.
My water tanks are under the setees, and their state of fill has no impact. It strikes me that there is something wrong with the placement of the balast; I feel strongly that Mr. Alberg would have designed the boat to ride level.
The batteries and water heater or original, and are listed in the sales brochure as "equipped with". By the way, a fellow Cape Dory owner gave me that ORIGINAL CD30 sales brochure! Pretty cool!
Fair Winds to all who responded!
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
Thanks for the offer of the lead. You might do better selling it for scrap locally. Out here, it "retails" for about a buck a pound. I'm sure it would cost more than that to truck it out here.
My water tanks are under the setees, and their state of fill has no impact. It strikes me that there is something wrong with the placement of the balast; I feel strongly that Mr. Alberg would have designed the boat to ride level.
The batteries and water heater or original, and are listed in the sales brochure as "equipped with". By the way, a fellow Cape Dory owner gave me that ORIGINAL CD30 sales brochure! Pretty cool!
Fair Winds to all who responded!
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
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Carl Jones
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
What year is your CD30? I have a 1983 model. She doesn't do what you describe. I understand that there were minor changes made throughout the production, actually, some major changes also. That could explain it. I have noticed that she doesn't have enough bouyancy aft to load up the lazarettes with dive gear, etc. and support three men in the cockpit without squatting. I discovered this on one of my first triips and am careful to limit weight aft now. The design of the hull limits buoyancy aft. If I wanted more buoyancy I guess I could buy a tub, but I want a real sail boat, so I have a CD! Best Regards,
Carl
CD30 Spanish Eyes
GreatCells@aol.com
Carl
CD30 Spanish Eyes
Steve Alarcon wrote: I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
GreatCells@aol.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
>>You might do better selling it for scrap locally.<<
There's a local bait shop that's always looking for lead. I have about 800 lbs... would be good to turn that into $$$ and buy more goodies for the boat. <g>
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
There's a local bait shop that's always looking for lead. I have about 800 lbs... would be good to turn that into $$$ and buy more goodies for the boat. <g>
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
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Steve Alarcon
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Carl,
We have an '82. Is the "squatting" you describe experienced while underway? If so, that's probably just the normal wave form created by the bow. It's one of the things that makes it pretty hard to get a '30 to dip her rail. That being said, I have noticed that we sit low in the rear when underway with several aboard and in the cockpit. I'm okay with that though. My beef is how she lies when at anchor. It' almost like they put the balast just a wee bit too far aft.
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
We have an '82. Is the "squatting" you describe experienced while underway? If so, that's probably just the normal wave form created by the bow. It's one of the things that makes it pretty hard to get a '30 to dip her rail. That being said, I have noticed that we sit low in the rear when underway with several aboard and in the cockpit. I'm okay with that though. My beef is how she lies when at anchor. It' almost like they put the balast just a wee bit too far aft.
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Steve,
For what it's worth, in the Aubury/Maturin series(Captain & Commander, etc...)the British Men-of-War during the war with Napolean were often trimmed with a few strakes submerged aft instead of lying dead level. From what I can tell, this was done to ease the entry forward and to keep her from plowing into the sea. They also raked the mast aft a bit to increase the ability to work to windward. Whatever you decide, I wouldn't put extra weight in either of the ends. As it is, Hanalei does set about dead level, but I did notice when we stripped her to be pulled a few weeks ago, that she came up about 2" all around! Next year there will only be the bare necessities aboard!(Read that as: Carol, the Captain and a really good bottle of wine!) Oh, we also noticed that when all water tanks were empty, all extra gear removed(cannons overboard etc...)she didn't sail nearly as well as when she was loaded to the normal waterline. So, I guess you can get to light also.
Sometime when you are in the slip, stand on the dock and have your 1st. Mate walk from aft to forward. Watch the trim of the waterline, and see if that little re-distribution of weight makes a difference. Another way to check would be to have both the Captain and 1st. Mate stand in the cockpit, aft of the wheel, and dump a bucket of water over on the floor of the cockpit. If the water drains through the forward scuppers, your trim is OK. (Lift your feet, so as not to get them wet!) If you end up with a puddle of water in the corner behind you, she could be down at the stern a bit. If that is the case, you might possibly want to reposition the boot stripe when she's pulled again. Also, are you sure that someone else hasn't already repositioned the stripe in an earlier painting. Sometimes people get weird with paint brushes! Hope all this helps...How long is it 'till time to re-launch in the Spring?
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)
For what it's worth, in the Aubury/Maturin series(Captain & Commander, etc...)the British Men-of-War during the war with Napolean were often trimmed with a few strakes submerged aft instead of lying dead level. From what I can tell, this was done to ease the entry forward and to keep her from plowing into the sea. They also raked the mast aft a bit to increase the ability to work to windward. Whatever you decide, I wouldn't put extra weight in either of the ends. As it is, Hanalei does set about dead level, but I did notice when we stripped her to be pulled a few weeks ago, that she came up about 2" all around! Next year there will only be the bare necessities aboard!(Read that as: Carol, the Captain and a really good bottle of wine!) Oh, we also noticed that when all water tanks were empty, all extra gear removed(cannons overboard etc...)she didn't sail nearly as well as when she was loaded to the normal waterline. So, I guess you can get to light also.
Sometime when you are in the slip, stand on the dock and have your 1st. Mate walk from aft to forward. Watch the trim of the waterline, and see if that little re-distribution of weight makes a difference. Another way to check would be to have both the Captain and 1st. Mate stand in the cockpit, aft of the wheel, and dump a bucket of water over on the floor of the cockpit. If the water drains through the forward scuppers, your trim is OK. (Lift your feet, so as not to get them wet!) If you end up with a puddle of water in the corner behind you, she could be down at the stern a bit. If that is the case, you might possibly want to reposition the boot stripe when she's pulled again. Also, are you sure that someone else hasn't already repositioned the stripe in an earlier painting. Sometimes people get weird with paint brushes! Hope all this helps...How long is it 'till time to re-launch in the Spring?
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)
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Bill Gold
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Steve, yeah, I get picky about some things, too. Here is a thought, though... I've heard of rudders absorbing water. I've heard people describe the cure process... remove it... drill it full of holes, and let it dry. Don't know if it would absorb enough water to tilt the balance the way you described, though.
Bill Gold
cd30 Seraphim
billgold@hotmail.com
Bill Gold
cd30 Seraphim
Steve Alarcon wrote: I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
billgold@hotmail.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
My 1983 CD30 is also low by the stern..the bow waterline is 3 in. out of the water! I have experimented, and placed 280 lbs of lead shielding used to ship radioactive isotopes to hospitals..in the bow. I made a wood box and fiberglassed it to the hull just behind the holding tank. The lead is just laying there now, but if I decide that I like the feel, I will epoxy the lead into the box. Now she sits level as can be. I did this about two months ago, so have not had more than a couple hours of sail time to try it out. Unfortunately, she is on the hard until April..but with the 70's here, we could still be sailing.
I think that the original design may have called for a lighter engine..Yanmar run about 160 lbs less than our Volvo's. That would begin to make things better..
Regards,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
demers@sgi.com
I think that the original design may have called for a lighter engine..Yanmar run about 160 lbs less than our Volvo's. That would begin to make things better..
Regards,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Steve Alarcon wrote: I've noticed that my CD30 has a tendancy to rest stern-heavy when at anchor or slip. First, it was casual notice that the boot stripe aft showed less than forward. Then I started noticing when below that Temerity's bow really does ride high, and even measured it with a small bubble-level. While it doesn't impare her sailing capabilities, it continues to bug me. What bugs me mostly is the visual aspect that I have an extra 3-4" of boot-strip showing forward. The boat just doesn't look right. I don't have any unusual weight aft or in the lazarettes; just the water heater, fuel tank and batteries.
I've taken to considering adding some lead ballast forward, just aft of the holding tank. Experiments show that about 150-180# of lead should do it. Before I jump into this, (lead is about $1 per lb.), I thought I'd check with my friends for simular experience.
So what say thee? Anyone else as anal as I am?
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
demers@sgi.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
>>... she didn't sail nearly as well as when she was loaded to the normal waterline. So, I guess you can get to light also.<<
Momentum of the boat through the waves changes when it's lighter. Also, as she floats higher, the waterline length decreases, reducing theoretical hull speed. Either that, or it's all in your head. <G>
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
Momentum of the boat through the waves changes when it's lighter. Also, as she floats higher, the waterline length decreases, reducing theoretical hull speed. Either that, or it's all in your head. <G>
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
103355.34@compuserve.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD30 ballast, fore and aft trim
Neil,
I'll bet your right in both instances. She did seem to not cut through the water as well, so the loss of momentum makes sense, and the water line length is a definite. It wasn't much of a change, but I noticed it. Of course, it could be that I just didn't have her trimmed right for that particular day. Thanks for your input...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
I'll bet your right in both instances. She did seem to not cut through the water as well, so the loss of momentum makes sense, and the water line length is a definite. It wasn't much of a change, but I noticed it. Of course, it could be that I just didn't have her trimmed right for that particular day. Thanks for your input...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei