anchor light

[Larry DeMers]

I will assume that you wrote this part of the verbosely quoted text, but incorrectly assigned the italicized character to it.

Do you hit Channel markers that don't have lights on them?

No, of course not. But they are not secreted off into the shallows where other boats are anchored either, are they? Most if not all channel markers on Superior are marked with lights, at least where I sail. Otherwise, they ARE noted on your charts and you should be aware of them.
I guess I do not understand the point of your question. Perhaps you will become a bit more clear?

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer



demers@sgi.com

[Joe Sankey]

Interesting, all this, as when I got back to my marina with Slow Dance
a neighbor's 31 Island Packet showed substantial damage, which I assumed came as result of one of our recent storms. I learned later that the boat had been anchored in one of several "hurricane holes", a large creek nearby. Before it got removed to the marina, a power boat climbed the port side aft, tearing up the hull, rails, and even breaking the boom! No one on board, and I'd venture a guess that no anchor light was displayed, as it is not common practice in these circumstances. I'll learn more about all this, especially liability issues related to it, and pass them along. I'd guess that such issues may be site specific, as this would be state water. I'm not aware of any designated anchorages locally, but certainly have heard of them.

Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance

Michael,

The CG has made the statement (in error I believe) that an anchor light is not necessary in designated anchorage areas. Now designated anchorage areas are shown with the little anchor symbol on your chart..can't find one? Right..that's cause they are almost all gone now. There are very few designated anchorage areas where no light is required, and the whole practice is foolish anyway, since boats *will* be moving around, anchoring and dinghies will be moving about too. So all of the reasons that would require you to use an anchor light in any anchorage hold true in a designated anchorage as well..only they remove the requirement for some reason. Also be aware of the old chart syndrome. What may have been a desiganted anchorage 10 years ago, may have been changed the year after you purchased that chart. So you may not actually be as immune from the regs as you believe.

Look, it is a matter of self-preservation and the quest for uninterrupted sleep at night that we properly light our little lights up top the masthead. That requirement superseeds the governments thinking on this matter as far as I am concerned. Think visibility to others as Ed says..it is the one criteria that matters here. Be seen..and hope that the folks in that approaching boat are wise enough to know what to do with the information.
As for legality, the CG has the last word, and if an unlit boat was in a designated anchorage and was hit, they would not have the legal troubles I believe, as you would if you were in any other area anchoring out without a light, or with an inadequate one. It should make no difference, but it seems to. Common sense is a variable afterall.

Just think about self-preservation and you will be led to the right decisions.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

FWIW, I agree 100% with Larry.

I have an oil lamp that I use in my cockpit for ambiance and lighting purposes but it never replaces the need to keep a proper anchor light (at the top of the mast) on while at anchor or even at a mooring. I don't know how many times I've been told that it's not necessary to put on the anchor light because we were in a designated anchorage or mooring site but I put on the anchor light anyway. Why? The purpose of an anchor light should be viewed from the prespective of other boaters. The light is to be visible to them for safety reasons. It should be (as required) visible for 2 miles. The idea is to help other boaters from hitting you in the middle of the night preventing injury or damage. Why would anyone compromise safety? If someone hit your boat in the middle of the night and you had a kerosene lamp lit for an anchor light you would be liable in a lawsuit.

Don't get me wrong, I use an oil light all the time in the cockpit. It looks nice and warm on a cozy evening. But there's a proper anchor light lit on the top of the mast as well. Why wouldn't a sailor do otherwise? I just can't figure it out. Most have one but fail to turn it on. Amazing.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON
(about to be on the hard in Clayton, NY)

Larry,
Ed brings up a situation that probably needs consideration. Anchoring in a desegnated anchorage or moorage area. Many times I have arrived in a bay where the locals moor their boats and I simply anchored out. I was fortunate one time to have the USGS anchored not 500 yards away. Many of the boats did not have an anchor light, a few had a sensor so their lights did come on and some did not come on at all. It was my guess that the perpmanantly moored boats in this bay pretty much set the precedence. The Coast Gaurd did nothing.

It would be my question then would be of the legality.
Michael

sankey@gulftel.com

[Tom]

The new LEDs are what they call "super brights". There are many manufacturers, but the ones I use have the brand name "Linrose". Radioshack does NOT carry them. I got mine at the local electronics store, but have since found them in mail order catalogs. I have four of them arrayed around in a circle 90 degrees apart pointing out so that the focus is toward the fresnel lense in the anchor light. I am always the brightest anchor light in the anchorage and easy to find because of the bluish tint of the LEDs. No way to mistake it for a campfire on shore etc. The LEDs draw 20 mA each so an array of four draws just 80 mA. An array of 10 would still draw only 200 mA and be bright enough to hurt your eyes.

BTW let me add the dissenting voice on masthead anchor lights. I do no like them. When you're coming into an anchorage at night and trying to see boats at anchor your eyes are on the water in front of you not staring into the skies. Masthead anchor lights are fine if you're anchoring with ships whose decks are 40 feet above water, but small boats usually anchor in small anchorages where the boats you're trying to avoid are at more or less sea level a few feet above the water. What you need is a bright light about 10 feet off the water so that as you're staring at the water in front of you and trying to see the outline of boats whose damn oil lamps have blown out or are invisible because of soot. Thus your eyes are glued to the water just ahead of you and not scanning the heavens for lights 35 feet up in the air. From a distance masthead lights are fine, but in an anchorage, they're not as effeective as lights just above the water. In my view oil lamps should be outlawed (you can't see them at two miles per CG regulations and when they soot up you can't see them acoss the anchorage.) Masthead lights should only be used at sea (masthead tricolors etc) not in anchorages. 20 Watt bulbs with their almost 2 amp draw are ridiculous in anchor lights because of the battery drain in a small boat and the fact that they do burn out. LEDs as far as anyone knows never burn out, they're brighter than incandescent bulbs, and their draw is in the milliamp range. Why wouldn't you want a "bulb" that is brighter, draws a hundredth of a standard bulb and never burns out? Forget Deer Creek and their $ 150 anchor light. You can buy super bright LEDs for about $4 and make your own light. BTW where did I learn about super bright LEDs? ... On the Cape Dory Bulletin Board, of course about two years ago. I forget the posters name now, but my hat's off to you.

I was one of the big detractors for LED anchor lights..the Davis magic light as an example. Well, a friend was aboard DLM the other weekend, brought with him a little key fob that had a LED light on it.Holy Cow..that thing was incredibly brite! I could not believe it. So much so in fact, that I got the multi-meter out to measure current draw thru the battery compartment of the little lite. It drew an incredible .020A or 20 mA~! Now parallel 10 of these things in a ring and then concentrate on the lensing for the assembly, and you might have something that *Will* work out for an anchor light..and at a couple hundred mA's. Right now, my Hella light is a 20W light that draws 1.85A. It is visible for 5 miles (I do what I preach -usually! heh). I will reduce that wattage to 10W next summer, to save battery life and recharging time..but that will still be 900mA's vs. maybe 200mA's with the LED variety. Not a bad tradeoff already, and it should improve as time goes forward.

So I am off my bandwagon about LED anchor lights..I have seen an example of the brite (CHIME process LEDS), with a focused beam, and it is absolutely astounding in it's briteness.

To that point, I have noted in the catalogs, a direct replacement for the incandescent lamps, with a LED array..handbuilt apparently, but still a product. These may be the way to go for those on a current diet. Expensive, but apparently effective (lord, they are brite).

I would be interested in any independant research or studies on these lites, and their visibility numbers.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Agree with Larry, Richard. I am keeping an eye on the development of white LED technology. Currently, Deep Creek Designs has a white LED array for a masthead anchor light, but it is about $150. The LEDs draw next to nothing and last indefinitely. They probably use less energy than an oil lamp. (Speculating here).

When the price inevitably drops as the technology gets ramped up, I am convinced LED will be the way to go for most nav lights.


Bill Goldsmith

I really don't get this facination with oil lamps. I know of two anchored sailboats that have been run down by barges, resulting in loss of life for the sailors. Why in the world would you NOT want to have a BRIGHT, legal light?! If you're going to cruise, you need sufficient battery capacity for lots of things, and an anchor light isn't that significant. Read Larry's words and heed. Do the right thing and put in a legal 32 point light high and forward. Forget about hanging temporary lights - use a permanent fixture and it's hassle free.

TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Michael Berry]

FWIW, I agree 100% with Larry.

I have an oil lamp that I use in my cockpit for ambiance and lighting purposes but it never replaces the need to keep a proper anchor light (at the top of the mast) on while at anchor or even at a mooring. I don't know how many times I've been told that it's not necessary to put on the anchor light because we were in a designated anchorage or mooring site but I put on the anchor light anyway. Why? The purpose of an anchor light should be viewed from the prespective of other boaters. The light is to be visible to them for safety reasons. It should be (as required) visible for 2 miles. The idea is to help other boaters from hitting you in the middle of the night preventing injury or damage. Why would anyone compromise safety? If someone hit your boat in the middle of the night and you had a kerosene lamp lit for an anchor light you would be liable in a lawsuit.

Don't get me wrong, I use an oil light all the time in the cockpit. It looks nice and warm on a cozy evening. But there's a proper anchor light lit on the top of the mast as well. Why wouldn't a sailor do otherwise? I just can't figure it out. Most have one but fail to turn it on. Amazing.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON
(about to be on the hard in Clayton, NY)

Larry, Ed and Joe,
I guess with all the legal liability at stake here with our pride and joys it would be best to err on the side of wisdom and safety.
I was a professional driver for 28 years plus and the last question if there was an accident, whether right or wrong in the eyes of the police, was "Did you do everything in your power to prevent the accident?" results on my record as a preventable or non-preventable.
Your story Larry of the near collision with the Hinkley is an interesting situation. Did he try to post an anchor light as perhaps that is all he had? An emergency anchor light?
What did radar really reveal?
Michael

[Michael Berry]

This past Sunday as I was hauling in the storm anchor and generally getting Slow Dance ready to move back to the marina after our series of nasty storms, a gentleman rowed his dinghy by to say "hello". Turns out he is developing LED lights, and has set up shop at a marina near here. Would it be interesting to anyone following this thread for me to learn more about his efforts?
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance

Agree with Larry, Richard. I am keeping an eye on the development of white LED technology. Currently, Deep Creek Designs has a white LED array for a masthead anchor light, but it is about $150. The LEDs draw next to nothing and last indefinitely. They probably use less energy than an oil lamp. (Speculating here).

When the price inevitably drops as the technology gets ramped up, I am convinced LED will be the way to go for most nav lights.


Bill Goldsmith

I really don't get this facination with oil lamps. I know of two anchored sailboats that have been run down by barges, resulting in loss of life for the sailors. Why in the world would you NOT want to have a BRIGHT, legal light?! If you're going to cruise, you need sufficient battery capacity for lots of things, and an anchor light isn't that significant. Read Larry's words and heed. Do the right thing and put in a legal 32 point light high and forward. Forget about hanging temporary lights - use a permanent fixture and it's hassle free.

Joe, I recently took the seminar given by John Neal and his suggestion was go with the LED anchor lights. He also suggested a new kind of interior lights. You can ask nearly any question of John on his web site, Mahina.com. Of course, he has a HR43 I do believe and have seen pictures of his engine room....WOA!!
Amanda Swan/Neal was so very impressed with this.
Michael

[Mario]

I have been following this thread with interest. Rhapsody does not have an anchor light on the masthead. The previous owner used a Guest 6V light that he hung about halfway up the backstay, a practice we continued, although we're now using a Davis Mega-Light.

1. As I understand it, the CG doesn't certify equipment as "approved" except for PFDs. So how do you know a given light is "approved" for anchoring and can be seen from 2 NM, except from the manufacturer's claims?

Mario
s/v Rhapsody
CD30 #252
Regent Point, VA

2. Who designates an anchorage as "approved."



capedory252NOSPAM@aol.com

[John Phillips]

This past Sunday as I was hauling in the storm anchor and generally getting Slow Dance ready to move back to the marina after our series of nasty storms, a gentleman rowed his dinghy by to say "hello". Turns out he is developing LED lights, and has set up shop at a marina near here. Would it be interesting to anyone following this thread for me to learn more about his efforts?
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance

Agree with Larry, Richard. I am keeping an eye on the development of white LED technology. Currently, Deep Creek Designs has a white LED array for a masthead anchor light, but it is about $150. The LEDs draw next to nothing and last indefinitely. They probably use less energy than an oil lamp. (Speculating here).

When the price inevitably drops as the technology gets ramped up, I am convinced LED will be the way to go for most nav lights.


Bill Goldsmith

I really don't get this facination with oil lamps. I know of two anchored sailboats that have been run down by barges, resulting in loss of life for the sailors. Why in the world would you NOT want to have a BRIGHT, legal light?! If you're going to cruise, you need sufficient battery capacity for lots of things, and an anchor light isn't that significant. Read Larry's words and heed. Do the right thing and put in a legal 32 point light high and forward. Forget about hanging temporary lights - use a permanent fixture and it's hassle free.

Joe:
I met that guy when I was down there (Pirate's Cove) a couple of years ago. I believe he was originally from Kansas or Colorado. He had managed to evolve into a true Pirate's Cove'er. I thought at the time he was about to start production. I would be interested in hearing how it is developing.
John



NOSPAMbranchedoakmarina@aol.com

[Lou Ostendorff]

Hello Tom and Others;
I had some involvement in the LED anchor light posting about a year or so ago...it was a great discussion but did not find much favor with those having used the traditional light at much less expense. After researching the LED option, I became convinced that for a long lived solution, it's a little more complicated than just soldering a bunch of LEDs together, so I opted to purchase a Deep Creek Light and try it out. The 'bulb' they make is fully potted in an enclosure with a bayonette mount that replaces the standard bulb in the Perko series 200 all-around masthead light. Since I already had an Aqua Signal series 25 light on the mast that was still working, I mounted the Perko fixture on a small piece of teak, and attached two white plastic 'rail mounts' so I could snap it onto Karma's bimini supports. Then I ran the power cord inside the cabin and terminated it with a 12 volt accessory plug...so now I have a portable 'low' low power anchor light, and the existing masthead with its 10 watt light as a spare. So far, I've had no problems from the Deep Creek light, and as Larry said, they are BRIGHT ! If you'd like to researth the LED phenomenon further, try searching the WWW for "The Punishment Zone"...they've tested several LEDs and have some brightness info. to look at. Enjoy!
Lou Ostendorff
CD25D Karma
Berthed in Havelock, Headed for Oriental, NC (CDSOA Annual Meeting)



louosten@ipass.net

[georgia]

Ok - I'm not an electrical wizard! I understand about installing the bulbs, and the cigarette plug adaptor, but where do you run the wires back to the battery? From the anchor light to the base of the mast, then to the battery, or some other arrangement? If I can figure out how to do it, it sounds like a great idea, because I like the oil lamp look.
georgia
Typhoon 127 "Prairie Orchid"



gksimpson@attbi.com

[georgia]

A previous boat I owned had the Guest light with electric eye, which was handy to shut the thing off at dawn.
Are these still available somewhere?
georgia
Ty #127 'Prairie Orchid"

I have been following this thread with interest. Rhapsody does not have an anchor light on the masthead. The previous owner used a Guest 6V light that he hung about halfway up the backstay, a practice we continued, although we're now using a Davis Mega-Light.

1. As I understand it, the CG doesn't certify equipment as "approved" except for PFDs. So how do you know a given light is "approved" for anchoring and can be seen from 2 NM, except from the manufacturer's claims?

Mario
s/v Rhapsody
CD30 #252
Regent Point, VA

2. Who designates an anchorage as "approved."

gksimpson@attbi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Michael,

The Hinkley had and used a mast top anchor light in the Chippewa Harbor anchorage a few years later, but I did not determine if that same light was aboard the day after the near collision with him. I was doing well to get the boat name and hailing port for the log book. But it being a Hinkley Gold Plater, it had to have come with some anchor light up topside, wouldn't you think? Maybe it was bad or something..or maybe it was more romantic to use the kerosene light...??

As I mentioned, radar showed a single target because the targets (2) were aligned fore and aft with each other, and only 150 ft apart, and then only 300 ft. off shore. So the shoreline got involved, as did a longer range on the radar than would be optimum, since we had already arrived at our destination effectively.
The lights being shone were also confusing to some extent, with the light from the little powerboat looking like the right distance for the radars target, yet the sailboats 'anchor' light seemed to be a dying fire on the beach..or that is how three of us saw it at 1am in the morn.
Point is that while it all made sense until I picked up on the loom of the nav lights, all was well. But once we saw the problem, we had maybe a few seconds to adjust course and then figure out what happened to fool us. There was no time for conjecture or debate even..just a big SH*T! Hard to Port! to warn the others that something was happening. I felt like a fool after that one, and mention it in the hopes that it will help others to remember that things are not always the way you see them, and that anything that another boater can do to make his boat apparent to you (no klieg lights though, please..)would likely benefit all parties concerned.


Larry

FWIW, I agree 100% with Larry.

I have an oil lamp that I use in my cockpit for ambiance and lighting purposes but it never replaces the need to keep a proper anchor light (at the top of the mast) on while at anchor or even at a mooring. I don't know how many times I've been told that it's not necessary to put on the anchor light because we were in a designated anchorage or mooring site but I put on the anchor light anyway. Why? The purpose of an anchor light should be viewed from the prespective of other boaters. The light is to be visible to them for safety reasons. It should be (as required) visible for 2 miles. The idea is to help other boaters from hitting you in the middle of the night preventing injury or damage. Why would anyone compromise safety? If someone hit your boat in the middle of the night and you had a kerosene lamp lit for an anchor light you would be liable in a lawsuit.

Don't get me wrong, I use an oil light all the time in the cockpit. It looks nice and warm on a cozy evening. But there's a proper anchor light lit on the top of the mast as well. Why wouldn't a sailor do otherwise? I just can't figure it out. Most have one but fail to turn it on. Amazing.

Ed Haley
s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Kingston, ON
(about to be on the hard in Clayton, NY)

Larry, Ed and Joe,
I guess with all the legal liability at stake here with our pride and joys it would be best to err on the side of wisdom and safety.
I was a professional driver for 28 years plus and the last question if there was an accident, whether right or wrong in the eyes of the police, was "Did you do everything in your power to prevent the accident?" results on my record as a preventable or non-preventable.
Your story Larry of the near collision with the Hinkley is an interesting situation. Did he try to post an anchor light as perhaps that is all he had? An emergency anchor light?
What did radar really reveal?
Michael

demers@sgi.com

[Robin Meigel]

I purchased a light from Boat U.S. which operates off a 6 volt battery and has a solar triggered on/off switch. The price was in the $70-90 range. When I use it I raise it on a halyard, tied off so it doesn't swing into any rigging. 'Very handy as a backup when the masthead anchor light isn't working OR I leave my boat 2-3 days anchored in a cove at a friend's house.

Robin Meigel
s/v "Pacem"
1979 CD 27

[Robin Meigel]

I purchased a light from Boat U.S. ($70-$90 range) which has a solar triggered on/off switch. I raise it on a halyard, tied off so it doesn't swing into the rigging. It is very handy as a backup if the masthead light goes out OR when I leave my boat anchored in a secluded cove at a friend's house for 2-3 days.

Robin Meigel
s/v "Pacem"
1979 CD 27

[Max Treece]

This is an interesting thread. I have an OLD Guest 6 volt anchor light with an incandescent bulb mfg long before LEDs. It has a focused lens that concentrates a beam of light into a narrow horizontal beam. It is designed to swing freely creating a flashing effect to others approaching. I hang it off the bow stay elevated about 6-8 feet above the deck. Is it LEGAL? Is it capable of 2 NM with the focused beam that should cut across the eyes of approaching vessels? Has anyone replaced the bulb with some sort of LED circuitry that would be more power efficient and brighter?

Seems to me that putting a light on the Bow area would be much better than off the backstay.

Max Treece
CD25

Need some recommendations on a hanging anchor light (oil). Decided not to put on a masthead light...going with an anchor light on the backstay. Thanks. Bill

metreece@duke-energy.com

[Joe Sankey]

FWIW: Alabama law states: "All boats are required to display a white light visible from all directions whenever they are moored or anchored away from dock between sunset and sunrise". Sounds pretty unequivocal to me. In storm preparations this is routinely ignored.

Previously on CDs I've used a Guest 360 degree (6 volt) light hung from the forestay with the genoa halyard. On our current 30 I installed a Perko light atop the mast, but carry a battery operated light, too. My own take is that in a protected area either is fine. I think I'll feel safer with the masthead light in more open waters with traffic nearby.

Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance

This is an interesting thread. I have an OLD Guest 6 volt anchor light with an incandescent bulb mfg long before LEDs. It has a focused lens that concentrates a beam of light into a narrow horizontal beam. It is designed to swing freely creating a flashing effect to others approaching. I hang it off the bow stay elevated about 6-8 feet above the deck. Is it LEGAL? Is it capable of 2 NM with the focused beam that should cut across the eyes of approaching vessels? Has anyone replaced the bulb with some sort of LED circuitry that would be more power efficient and brighter?

Seems to me that putting a light on the Bow area would be much better than off the backstay.

Max Treece
CD25

Need some recommendations on a hanging anchor light (oil). Decided not to put on a masthead light...going with an anchor light on the backstay. Thanks. Bill

sankey@gulftel.com