Before I invest in a windlass for my 28CD, I would like to know how much pulling power I am now exerting on my anchor rode, which is
a 20lb CQR, 25 feet of 3/8 chain and, usually 60-80 feet of 5/8
3 strand nylon. I am interested only in the "pop out" force I am exerting. It takes every bit of my energy to force it out. Now, I do solo alot and it is very tricky, in a crowded harbor, while alone, to pop it out with the engine, hence a windlass. So, pulling with all my strength just about pops the anchor and my back. I am looking at a 600lb pulling power windlass. Thanks for the help. Bill.
meislandbill@yahoo.com
Physicists needed
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Larry DeMers
Re: Physicists needed
Not a physicist,just an lowly EE..but back of the envelope calcs go this way: Anchor 20lb., 25 ft. of chain est. to be 75lbs., rode another 10. So you are lifting about 105 lbs (est.) of dead weight, plus the amount needed to break the anchor free. That is a variable that has no definition, as the bottom is not known, nor is the depth of the anchors penetration. But lets estimate 100 lbs for that purpose only..so popping the anchor is going to take a~200lb. pull.
That is a bit to do yourself. Why not let the baot do it for you..at least popping the anchor free? Simply retrieve the rode and pull up as much chain as you can, then wrap the chain around the anchor cleat temporarily as you go and put the engine in gear and slowly motor forward. In a few feet the anchor will be pulled out by the boat. Go back to neutral, and then retrieve the remaining chain with anchor.
If you got clever, you could get weigh-on slowly with the engine, then do the retrieval of the rode and chaiin in one step, using boat momentum remaining to pull the anchor out, then finish up hauling it in. This eliminates the trip back to the cockpit to re-engage the engine.
A winch is nice, but the manual ones do take a bit of arm work in trade for getting the anchor aboard. The advantage is that you will have some real power should you need to pull out of a rock or from under a log or even lift the log to free yourself from it. Also kedging off would be easier with a windlass.
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
That is a bit to do yourself. Why not let the baot do it for you..at least popping the anchor free? Simply retrieve the rode and pull up as much chain as you can, then wrap the chain around the anchor cleat temporarily as you go and put the engine in gear and slowly motor forward. In a few feet the anchor will be pulled out by the boat. Go back to neutral, and then retrieve the remaining chain with anchor.
If you got clever, you could get weigh-on slowly with the engine, then do the retrieval of the rode and chaiin in one step, using boat momentum remaining to pull the anchor out, then finish up hauling it in. This eliminates the trip back to the cockpit to re-engage the engine.
A winch is nice, but the manual ones do take a bit of arm work in trade for getting the anchor aboard. The advantage is that you will have some real power should you need to pull out of a rock or from under a log or even lift the log to free yourself from it. Also kedging off would be easier with a windlass.
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
Bill wrote: Before I invest in a windlass for my 28CD, I would like to know how much pulling power I am now exerting on my anchor rode, which is
a 20lb CQR, 25 feet of 3/8 chain and, usually 60-80 feet of 5/8
3 strand nylon. I am interested only in the "pop out" force I am exerting. It takes every bit of my energy to force it out. Now, I do solo alot and it is very tricky, in a crowded harbor, while alone, to pop it out with the engine, hence a windlass. So, pulling with all my strength just about pops the anchor and my back. I am looking at a 600lb pulling power windlass. Thanks for the help. Bill.
demers@sgi.com
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Dennis
Re: Physicists needed
same here, no physicist but...
To pull out an anchor, West Marine sells the anchor retrieval floats. Doesn't seem like it will work well in a crowded anchorage, but I've seen them used to pull deeply set anchors in 600 ft depths in the offshore canyons.
Just a thought as it will be alot cheaper than a windless
Dennis
dennis.driscoll@roche.com
To pull out an anchor, West Marine sells the anchor retrieval floats. Doesn't seem like it will work well in a crowded anchorage, but I've seen them used to pull deeply set anchors in 600 ft depths in the offshore canyons.
Just a thought as it will be alot cheaper than a windless
Dennis
dennis.driscoll@roche.com
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Richard Feffer
Larry's numbers are wrong!
While Larry's numbers add up correctly, I don't believe them to be the true "pulling" weight to recover the anchor. Most likely the anchor and some of the chain will be laying on the bottom, while some of the rode will be on deck. The actual force needed to recover will probably be the weight of the anchor plus the weight of the chain per foot times the depth of the water plus the breakout force needed to free the anchor (which should be done as Larry said with the momentum of the boat).
Recovering an anchor singlehanded in a crowded anchorage or upwind of a rocky shoreline in heavy wind can be quite an unnerving experience and dangerous as well. I installed a Simpson-Lawrence 900GD on my CD30MKII early this year. Now I can recover my anchor in any condition without leaving the helm!!! (Switch in the cockpit as well as foot switches on the bow.) I strongly recommend a windlass for anyone who frequently single-hands his boat.
A friend suggested leading the rode to a jib sheet winch. While this will work, I prefer to let the windlass to the work!
Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.
RichFef@Optonline.net
Recovering an anchor singlehanded in a crowded anchorage or upwind of a rocky shoreline in heavy wind can be quite an unnerving experience and dangerous as well. I installed a Simpson-Lawrence 900GD on my CD30MKII early this year. Now I can recover my anchor in any condition without leaving the helm!!! (Switch in the cockpit as well as foot switches on the bow.) I strongly recommend a windlass for anyone who frequently single-hands his boat.
A friend suggested leading the rode to a jib sheet winch. While this will work, I prefer to let the windlass to the work!
Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.
RichFef@Optonline.net
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Kevin L.
Larry's Close Enough
Larry's estimate of the force required is accurate enough. The only way the force would be more is if you're not right over the anchor as in if the windage of the boat is driving you away from the anchor and putting a load on the rode.
And, the method is right too. Haul in as much as you can, using the motor to move towards the anchor if you have to, then cleat off the rode and use the motor to pop the anchor loose. Works every time.
Fair Winds,
Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur
San Francisco
lemans@gte.net
And, the method is right too. Haul in as much as you can, using the motor to move towards the anchor if you have to, then cleat off the rode and use the motor to pop the anchor loose. Works every time.
Fair Winds,
Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur
San Francisco
Richard Feffer wrote: While Larry's numbers add up correctly, I don't believe them to be the true "pulling" weight to recover the anchor. Most likely the anchor and some of the chain will be laying on the bottom, while some of the rode will be on deck. The actual force needed to recover will probably be the weight of the anchor plus the weight of the chain per foot times the depth of the water plus the breakout force needed to free the anchor (which should be done as Larry said with the momentum of the boat).
Recovering an anchor singlehanded in a crowded anchorage or upwind of a rocky shoreline in heavy wind can be quite an unnerving experience and dangerous as well. I installed a Simpson-Lawrence 900GD on my CD30MKII early this year. Now I can recover my anchor in any condition without leaving the helm!!! (Switch in the cockpit as well as foot switches on the bow.) I strongly recommend a windlass for anyone who frequently single-hands his boat.
A friend suggested leading the rode to a jib sheet winch. While this will work, I prefer to let the windlass to the work!
Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.
lemans@gte.net
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Larry DeMers
Re: Larry's numbers are wrong! Huh?!
Well, it is rather obvious that this was an exercise in imagination..I surely did not go out and make some measurements or something. The point is the difficulty that everyone experiences raising a buried anchor, why it is and how to make the backache easier.. not the exact numbers for petes sake.
For that info, I charge!
Larry DeMers
demers@sgi.com
For that info, I charge!
Larry DeMers
Richard Feffer wrote: While Larry's numbers add up correctly, I don't believe them to be the true "pulling" weight to recover the anchor. Most likely the anchor and some of the chain will be laying on the bottom, while some of the rode will be on deck. The actual force needed to recover will probably be the weight of the anchor plus the weight of the chain per foot times the depth of the water plus the breakout force needed to free the anchor (which should be done as Larry said with the momentum of the boat).
Recovering an anchor singlehanded in a crowded anchorage or upwind of a rocky shoreline in heavy wind can be quite an unnerving experience and dangerous as well. I installed a Simpson-Lawrence 900GD on my CD30MKII early this year. Now I can recover my anchor in any condition without leaving the helm!!! (Switch in the cockpit as well as foot switches on the bow.) I strongly recommend a windlass for anyone who frequently single-hands his boat.
A friend suggested leading the rode to a jib sheet winch. While this will work, I prefer to let the windlass to the work!
Richard Feffer
Adamarie
CD30MKII
Stamford, Ct.
demers@sgi.com
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Matt Cawthorne
Pulling up an anchor.
Bill,
The majority of load is due to pulling the anchor free, not the weight of the anchor and chain. Installing a windlass is a personal choice. Which type of windlass is even more choice. I believe that the load to pull up my CQR 35 can be more than 200 lb in a good holding bottom. Here are some tricks if you decide not to install the windlass. Firstly just pull the anchor chain up tight and cleat it off. In a few minutes you will find that you can tighten it a bit more. Repeat and in 5 or 10 minutes you will have the anchor out. The more waves the faster it will come up, but the more chance of smashing a finger. A more controlled trick is to pull it up tight and then attach a heavy line to the chain near the roller using a chain hook. Run the other end of the line to a primary winch. Now you can winch up your anchor from the cockpit where you have engine control. When you get clear of the anchorage you can stow the rode and line. Much cheaper and lower weight than a windlass. Not as easy to use though.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
The majority of load is due to pulling the anchor free, not the weight of the anchor and chain. Installing a windlass is a personal choice. Which type of windlass is even more choice. I believe that the load to pull up my CQR 35 can be more than 200 lb in a good holding bottom. Here are some tricks if you decide not to install the windlass. Firstly just pull the anchor chain up tight and cleat it off. In a few minutes you will find that you can tighten it a bit more. Repeat and in 5 or 10 minutes you will have the anchor out. The more waves the faster it will come up, but the more chance of smashing a finger. A more controlled trick is to pull it up tight and then attach a heavy line to the chain near the roller using a chain hook. Run the other end of the line to a primary winch. Now you can winch up your anchor from the cockpit where you have engine control. When you get clear of the anchorage you can stow the rode and line. Much cheaper and lower weight than a windlass. Not as easy to use though.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net