I'm planning on removing the head from my cd26. All the parts are 17 years old and in need of replacing. I've decided to remove it all to gain storage space under the v-berth and just use a port-a-potty. Curious about the through-hulls. Do they make a screw-in seal or do I need the hull re-epoxied? Any comments appreciated.
(I know, wait 'till it's on dry land)
capedorysailor@earthlink.net
Removing Head
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ken Coit
Re: Removing Head
Scott,
The flange on the outside of the hull that screws into the seacock has no threads on the inside of the barrel to the best of my knowledge. That being the case, you are talking about a plug for the seacock itself or a fairly significant bit of hull work to make a structurally sound repair after removing the seacock and flange. I'd be tempted to save myself some trouble and just grease that seacock well and lock it shut. I might also attach a hose with a plug in it just in case.
Besides, the next owner might want a plumbed head instead of a porta potti. A replacement head isn't all that expensive.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
The flange on the outside of the hull that screws into the seacock has no threads on the inside of the barrel to the best of my knowledge. That being the case, you are talking about a plug for the seacock itself or a fairly significant bit of hull work to make a structurally sound repair after removing the seacock and flange. I'd be tempted to save myself some trouble and just grease that seacock well and lock it shut. I might also attach a hose with a plug in it just in case.
Besides, the next owner might want a plumbed head instead of a porta potti. A replacement head isn't all that expensive.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
Scott MacCready,Marion,Mass wrote: I'm planning on removing the head from my cd26. All the parts are 17 years old and in need of replacing. I've decided to remove it all to gain storage space under the v-berth and just use a port-a-potty. Curious about the through-hulls. Do they make a screw-in seal or do I need the hull re-epoxied? Any comments appreciated.
(I know, wait 'till it's on dry land)
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
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JimL
Re: Removing Head
I had the same problem in my CD25. I discovered that the new digital depth sounder sender fits perfectly. Killed two birds with one stone, when I installed it. I believe the new knotmeter senders will fit, also.
Regards, JimL
leinfam@earthlink.net
Regards, JimL
leinfam@earthlink.net
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Scott MacCready
Re: Removing Head
I'm not at the boat now but if my memory serves me correctly there are two through hulls. One, very large that I assume is for discharging waste and appears to be frozen in the closed postion. What is the smaller one for? These 2 seacocks plus the one for the galley sink drain are very blackened. How do I know if they need replaced? Should I replace them just to be on the safe side? thanks again, Scott
capedorysailor@earthlink.net
capedorysailor@earthlink.net
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Boyd
Re: Removing Head
I agree ... I took out one thru hull last year, epoxied the hole and its a lot of messy work.
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla
boyd@wbta.cc
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla
Ken Coit wrote: Scott,
The flange on the outside of the hull that screws into the seacock has no threads on the inside of the barrel to the best of my knowledge. That being the case, you are talking about a plug for the seacock itself or a fairly significant bit of hull work to make a structurally sound repair after removing the seacock and flange. I'd be tempted to save myself some trouble and just grease that seacock well and lock it shut. I might also attach a hose with a plug in it just in case.
Besides, the next owner might want a plumbed head instead of a porta potti. A replacement head isn't all that expensive.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
Scott MacCready,Marion,Mass wrote: I'm planning on removing the head from my cd26. All the parts are 17 years old and in need of replacing. I've decided to remove it all to gain storage space under the v-berth and just use a port-a-potty. Curious about the through-hulls. Do they make a screw-in seal or do I need the hull re-epoxied? Any comments appreciated.
(I know, wait 'till it's on dry land)
boyd@wbta.cc
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Ken Coit
Re: Removing Head
Scott,
I think you have counted three seacocks in the head area, which seems normal, but I don't know the specifics of your boat. The large bore seacock is certainly for effluent discharge, one smaller one is probably for seawater intake for the bowl. The third is for sink drainage.
To me, blackened is the normal state of the exterior of seacocks, but I can't compare blacks with you over the board. A patina like the ports is what we have. As for their being salvagable, I suspect so, but it may take a bit of work, somewhere between gentle taps on the protected end of the shaft to lots of soaking with kerosene. If they won't move easily, I suggest that in order to avoid scratching the barrel and housing, you not try to force them to turn. Rather, I would loosen the nuts on the shaft and make those gentle taps first. Application of some corrosion buster or corrosion X may be called for; kerosene will also work. Once you have them apart and cleaned up with kerosene, I would check for scratches that may need to be removed with grinding compound. Once you have a good fit, clean them with kerosene, grease them with Morey's Red (my choice) or Spartan Seacock grease (expensive)and put them back together, tightening them only enough to require some pressure to move.
Once she is back in the water, be sure to check for leaking and tighten a bit more if necessary.
Good luck!
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
I think you have counted three seacocks in the head area, which seems normal, but I don't know the specifics of your boat. The large bore seacock is certainly for effluent discharge, one smaller one is probably for seawater intake for the bowl. The third is for sink drainage.
To me, blackened is the normal state of the exterior of seacocks, but I can't compare blacks with you over the board. A patina like the ports is what we have. As for their being salvagable, I suspect so, but it may take a bit of work, somewhere between gentle taps on the protected end of the shaft to lots of soaking with kerosene. If they won't move easily, I suggest that in order to avoid scratching the barrel and housing, you not try to force them to turn. Rather, I would loosen the nuts on the shaft and make those gentle taps first. Application of some corrosion buster or corrosion X may be called for; kerosene will also work. Once you have them apart and cleaned up with kerosene, I would check for scratches that may need to be removed with grinding compound. Once you have a good fit, clean them with kerosene, grease them with Morey's Red (my choice) or Spartan Seacock grease (expensive)and put them back together, tightening them only enough to require some pressure to move.
Once she is back in the water, be sure to check for leaking and tighten a bit more if necessary.
Good luck!
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit, ND7N
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
Scott MacCready wrote: I'm not at the boat now but if my memory serves me correctly there are two through hulls. One, very large that I assume is for discharging waste and appears to be frozen in the closed postion. What is the smaller one for? These 2 seacocks plus the one for the galley sink drain are very blackened. How do I know if they need replaced? Should I replace them just to be on the safe side? thanks again, Scott
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
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Mike W
Re: Removing Head
Scott:
I faced the same issue last year at haul out. A 20 year old head with smelly hoses, and I'm not a big fan of hauling around raw sewage. I pulled everything, and replaced it with a port-o-potty. (See last months Practical Sailor for a breakdown on features and why it's a good idea to get rid of the old system.)
I had three thru hulls to deal with. One 1/2" for sea water intake. Two 3/4" for discharging. (One for the Head-illegal. One for emptying the holding tank.) Using west systems epoxy, and following their recomendations, I removed the thru-hulls and glassed them in. It is a little messy, but I have a very clean bottom now. Actually I think I picked up a bit of speed getting rid of all that stuff. (Sorry, the old racing days die hard.) The hoses are what really stink after a while. New hoses, good stuff, runs about $9/foot.
I super cleaned the holding tank, removed the old fittings, and gave it a nice coat of bilge paint.
I could not be happier with the results! There is none of that "peppermint" smell that tries to cover the sewage smell. Less worries about through hulls giving way, and I estimate that I saved around $400.00 by going with the port-o-potty.
If you decide to just close up your thru-hauls, put a piece of hose that goes above the water line on each fitting. Just run it up the side and secure it in place. That way, if the seal is not tight on the closed seacocks, the water will not overflow your boat.
Just some ideas,
Mike
CD-25d
Scituate, MA
I faced the same issue last year at haul out. A 20 year old head with smelly hoses, and I'm not a big fan of hauling around raw sewage. I pulled everything, and replaced it with a port-o-potty. (See last months Practical Sailor for a breakdown on features and why it's a good idea to get rid of the old system.)
I had three thru hulls to deal with. One 1/2" for sea water intake. Two 3/4" for discharging. (One for the Head-illegal. One for emptying the holding tank.) Using west systems epoxy, and following their recomendations, I removed the thru-hulls and glassed them in. It is a little messy, but I have a very clean bottom now. Actually I think I picked up a bit of speed getting rid of all that stuff. (Sorry, the old racing days die hard.) The hoses are what really stink after a while. New hoses, good stuff, runs about $9/foot.
I super cleaned the holding tank, removed the old fittings, and gave it a nice coat of bilge paint.
I could not be happier with the results! There is none of that "peppermint" smell that tries to cover the sewage smell. Less worries about through hulls giving way, and I estimate that I saved around $400.00 by going with the port-o-potty.
If you decide to just close up your thru-hauls, put a piece of hose that goes above the water line on each fitting. Just run it up the side and secure it in place. That way, if the seal is not tight on the closed seacocks, the water will not overflow your boat.
Just some ideas,
Mike
CD-25d
Scituate, MA
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JimL
neat, clean method for closing holes
Bevel the outside of the hole at a shallow angle, about 1/8" deep and about 1/2" wide. This bevel will allow "grip" area for some fiberglass cloth. Also, sand away paint and debris for about 4" around the inside of the hole.
Now cut a few round patches of fiberglass cloth (not mat), slightly larger than the hole. Stack them up then duct tape them to the outside of the hole. The duct tape must cover the edges of the cloth completely (and seal down TIGHT). Use many layers of duct tape to hold shape.
Mix the West epoxy resin and start working it into the cloth from inside the boat. Now start laying in patches of cloth, cut to fill the hole, then covering inside with several layer of cloth/epoxy.
You can put a layer of wax paper over the inside patching, then quickly duct tape down (I start with the lower edge of the wax paper already taped in place, then fold up to cover). This will keep all the resin from running out of the patched hole. Cover the entire wax paper with duct tape, to make the paper stay flat and keep all the fill in place. Use multiple layers of duct tape, in and out.
After cure, pull the tape and wax paper. You'll need to sand away the overlap ridge around the outside, but your shape will be pretty accurate. You can do the job with very little spillage and no runs on the outside of the boat.
leinfam@earthlink.net
Now cut a few round patches of fiberglass cloth (not mat), slightly larger than the hole. Stack them up then duct tape them to the outside of the hole. The duct tape must cover the edges of the cloth completely (and seal down TIGHT). Use many layers of duct tape to hold shape.
Mix the West epoxy resin and start working it into the cloth from inside the boat. Now start laying in patches of cloth, cut to fill the hole, then covering inside with several layer of cloth/epoxy.
You can put a layer of wax paper over the inside patching, then quickly duct tape down (I start with the lower edge of the wax paper already taped in place, then fold up to cover). This will keep all the resin from running out of the patched hole. Cover the entire wax paper with duct tape, to make the paper stay flat and keep all the fill in place. Use multiple layers of duct tape, in and out.
After cure, pull the tape and wax paper. You'll need to sand away the overlap ridge around the outside, but your shape will be pretty accurate. You can do the job with very little spillage and no runs on the outside of the boat.
leinfam@earthlink.net
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Larry DeMers
Re: neat, clean method for closing holes
Good procedure..it works too. Did this last spring on the old depth sounder hole in the galley, and will remove a seacock in the heads sink area this fall (well in a few weeks actually), and using the same procedure.
I would only add that I found it best to rotate each layer of the cut circles of cloth so that the strands were in all directions when the job was completed. I also used alternating layers of biaxial cloth and a unidirectional cloth which got rotated 30 deg. per layer.
I found it useful to put the initial layer down first from inside the boat, then allow it harden a bit. Then the rest were installed, and after each layer, I used an acid brush to smooth out and "roll" the excess epoxy out of the cloth, which is why you want the first layer fairly hard..so you can push against it some, when 'rolling' the exccess epoxy out.
I ended up with about 10 layers I believe. Cut the cloth rings slightly oversized for that hole too, so that the outside margins of the cloth turn up a little and get epoxied to the side of the hole too. Extra strength that costs nothing to provide.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
I would only add that I found it best to rotate each layer of the cut circles of cloth so that the strands were in all directions when the job was completed. I also used alternating layers of biaxial cloth and a unidirectional cloth which got rotated 30 deg. per layer.
I found it useful to put the initial layer down first from inside the boat, then allow it harden a bit. Then the rest were installed, and after each layer, I used an acid brush to smooth out and "roll" the excess epoxy out of the cloth, which is why you want the first layer fairly hard..so you can push against it some, when 'rolling' the exccess epoxy out.
I ended up with about 10 layers I believe. Cut the cloth rings slightly oversized for that hole too, so that the outside margins of the cloth turn up a little and get epoxied to the side of the hole too. Extra strength that costs nothing to provide.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
JimL wrote: Bevel the outside of the hole at a shallow angle, about 1/8" deep and about 1/2" wide. This bevel will allow "grip" area for some fiberglass cloth. Also, sand away paint and debris for about 4" around the inside of the hole.
Now cut a few round patches of fiberglass cloth (not mat), slightly larger than the hole. Stack them up then duct tape them to the outside of the hole. The duct tape must cover the edges of the cloth completely (and seal down TIGHT). Use many layers of duct tape to hold shape.
Mix the West epoxy resin and start working it into the cloth from inside the boat. Now start laying in patches of cloth, cut to fill the hole, then covering inside with several layer of cloth/epoxy.
You can put a layer of wax paper over the inside patching, then quickly duct tape down (I start with the lower edge of the wax paper already taped in place, then fold up to cover). This will keep all the resin from running out of the patched hole. Cover the entire wax paper with duct tape, to make the paper stay flat and keep all the fill in place. Use multiple layers of duct tape, in and out.
After cure, pull the tape and wax paper. You'll need to sand away the overlap ridge around the outside, but your shape will be pretty accurate. You can do the job with very little spillage and no runs on the outside of the boat.
demers@sgi.com