CD25 Awlgrip

[Ron Brassord]

Maybe someone would be interested in the specifics of an Awlgrip paint job on a CD 25? I recently acquired a 1978 that had baked in the Florida sun and cooked the gel coat beyond restoration. I considered painting from the rail up with a one part polyurethane which I had good results on my work boat, but which requires yearly recovering.Instead, I opted for Awlgrip, with reservations, because of very limited experiance, and a poor result on a small boat. I read the product literature and bought the proper undercoating and a white topcoat. The job took about 60 hard hours to completion using a brush all the way. The two coats of undercoating 545 used exactly one unit[two quarts] with none to srare. The two topcoats used exactly one unit which is about two quarts when mixed, with none to spare. The total cost was about $200 for material, but fortunately bought at discount through a friend. At list, figure $300+.
I found the Algrip was no harder to get a mirror finish than applying one part poly, but mixing and timing was more complicated, but doable by a rank novice.
A critical factor in gettin a good result was in the sanding and prep. A rotary orbital like a Portal Cable is a huge help.Only the best gold sandpaper is wort using and the proper grits.It's also critical to use a guide coat after the second coat of base. This is a thin coat of flat black on the white base that shows every tiny imperfection and must be sanded off completely before topcoating. I skipped this on my previous job,and deserved the poor result.
Now, my CD 25 looks great, and will for many years. I think anyone who can varnish or paint gloss, can brush on the exotic paints with near professional results, as long as no short cuts are taken.
The problem now is, the hull looks a bit dowdy, and my ops officer thinks she would love to have a flag blue hull. Awlgrip of course.
Good sailing Ron Brassord Lighthouse Pt. Fl.



RDBRASS@aol.com

[Tim]

Recently refinished my deck with Awlgrip. The paint is evil personified when you are trying to get it painted on. Don't mix it right and it will show every brush stroke you leave, or show runs all over the place. Paint it in the Florida sun and it will flash before you get it on the deck. Paint at the wrong time of day and the dew will set before it cures causing it to look worse than if you used flat wall paint. If it rains (even if you are lucky enough to be under cover) you are sunk. And don't forget to prep, prep, prep!!

Get someone who has used it before to help you (even if you have to pay him/her), read all you can about do's and don'ts, and make sure you have good weather and temp/dew point spread. If you are painting in Florida make sure you use an accelerator.

Now that I have said all that, it's wonderful paint if done right. Looks at least as good as new. Wears very little if at all. Lasts a long time, even under the Florida sun. Gives a great mirror finish.



thluke@bellsouth.net

[Ron Brassord]

Tim Everything you say is true. My earlier and first experiance went as you discribed, awfull. But, I did not follow all the directions and tried shortcuts, especially in the prep. This time, I read all the company literature, and followed it. It was all done in Florida conditions, over three weeks of various weather, mostly hot. I was very surprised at the good result. I think a large factor could be I used a white base coat, and a white topcoat. The surfaces stay much cooler, and I think the dark colors are more prone to runs. I got none.I only mention this tto encourage someone who is trying ro decide which way to go. The two part paints are vastly superior and well worth the extra effort and expense, but not if the result is poor certainly. I have also done and seen paint jobs with convential materials that were pretty bad. Professional help in this area runs $60 an hour and up, so it means to me that do=it=yourself is the only way to go, and it can work out OK.
Good sailing Ron B

Recently refinished my deck with Awlgrip. The paint is evil personified when you are trying to get it painted on. Don't mix it right and it will show every brush stroke you leave, or show runs all over the place. Paint it in the Florida sun and it will flash before you get it on the deck. Paint at the wrong time of day and the dew will set before it cures causing it to look worse than if you used flat wall paint. If it rains (even if you are lucky enough to be under cover) you are sunk. And don't forget to prep, prep, prep!!

Get someone who has used it before to help you (even if you have to pay him/her), read all you can about do's and don'ts, and make sure you have good weather and temp/dew point spread. If you are painting in Florida make sure you use an accelerator.

Now that I have said all that, it's wonderful paint if done right. Looks at least as good as new. Wears very little if at all. Lasts a long time, even under the Florida sun. Gives a great mirror finish.

RDBRASS@aol.com

[Kurt]

How much of the deck hardware and woodwork did you remove prior to painting? Or did you us a lot of masking tape? I'm also be interested in how you painted the boat...i.e. did you paint the entire deck at one time? Possibly starting at the transom then going foward to the bow and back down the other side of the boat in one continuous process? or did you paint portions of the boat each day? Did you paint the cockpit separately?



kjlgpw@aol.com

[craig]

Maybe someone would be interested in the specifics of an Awlgrip paint job on a CD 25? I recently acquired a 1978 that had baked in the Florida sun and cooked the gel coat beyond restoration. I considered painting from the rail up with a one part polyurethane which I had good results on my work boat, but which requires yearly recovering.Instead, I opted for Awlgrip, with reservations, because of very limited experiance, and a poor result on a small boat. I read the product literature and bought the proper undercoating and a white topcoat. The job took about 60 hard hours to completion using a brush all the way. The two coats of undercoating 545 used exactly one unit[two quarts] with none to srare. The two topcoats used exactly one unit which is about two quarts when mixed, with none to spare. The total cost was about $200 for material, but fortunately bought at discount through a friend. At list, figure $300+.
I found the Algrip was no harder to get a mirror finish than applying one part poly, but mixing and timing was more complicated, but doable by a rank novice.
A critical factor in gettin a good result was in the sanding and prep. A rotary orbital like a Portal Cable is a huge help.Only the best gold sandpaper is wort using and the proper grits.It's also critical to use a guide coat after the second coat of base. This is a thin coat of flat black on the white base that shows every tiny imperfection and must be sanded off completely before topcoating. I skipped this on my previous job,and deserved the poor result.
Now, my CD 25 looks great, and will for many years. I think anyone who can varnish or paint gloss, can brush on the exotic paints with near professional results, as long as no short cuts are taken.
The problem now is, the hull looks a bit dowdy, and my ops officer thinks she would love to have a flag blue hull. Awlgrip of course.
Good sailing Ron Brassord Lighthouse Pt. Fl.

Ron

Sounds like the results were better than expected. My question is this: Did the finished look show as good as if it were sprayed? Hard to believe the brush strokes totally dissapear. Is this true and it is a mirror look with no distortions? thanks. craig



shavdog@aol.com

[Ron Brassord]

How much of the deck hardware and woodwork did you remove prior to painting? Or did you us a lot of masking tape? I'm also be interested in how you painted the boat...i.e. did you paint the entire deck at one time? Possibly starting at the transom then going foward to the bow and back down the other side of the boat in one continuous process? or did you paint portions of the boat each day? Did you paint the cockpit separately?

Kurt I painted everything from the rail up in one color, bright white.We thought we might later paint the non skid areas buff, but we like the all white, and will leave it.
I removed all the easy hardware, hatches etc, but taped the wood and other hardware. Took about 1/2 hour. The base coat was applied in one operation, starting at the bow and finishing at the stern jumping off on the dock. Splitting it in two might have been better. Sanding the base was the hardest part and took about 16 hours, aaand it was perfect. This is where the defects and brush marks are dealt with or not. For the top coat, I broke it into a number of areas. First, I did all the non skid sections in one shot. Within in the 24 hour time limit, I did the non skid a second and last time, because no sanding is effective. No taping was done. The top coat on the smooth areas came next, and I kept to small areas mixing only about 6 onze of paint at a time. Areas were cabin top and side decks, cabin sides and cockpit, pushpit and other etc, so that I could stay away from new paint as I went. This coat was lightly sanded and the second coat applied mostly within the 24 hour recoat period. I found only a couple of small runs that will stay, and no sags. All of the painting was done in 85/90 degree high humidity Florida weather, but no rain.Obviously I am pleased with the results, but am sure it's not any of my skill responsible but the white on white on white that made it easy
This Fall when pull for a bottom job, I think I am going to Awlgrip the white hull a flag blue. I expect I will be cursing the product then, but I am dumb and happy for now.
Good sailing Ron B



RDBRASS@aol.com

[Ron Brassord]

Maybe someone would be interested in the specifics of an Awlgrip paint job on a CD 25? I recently acquired a 1978 that had baked in the Florida sun and cooked the gel coat beyond restoration. I considered painting from the rail up with a one part polyurethane which I had good results on my work boat, but which requires yearly recovering.Instead, I opted for Awlgrip, with reservations, because of very limited experiance, and a poor result on a small boat. I read the product literature and bought the proper undercoating and a white topcoat. The job took about 60 hard hours to completion using a brush all the way. The two coats of undercoating 545 used exactly one unit[two quarts] with none to srare. The two topcoats used exactly one unit which is about two quarts when mixed, with none to spare. The total cost was about $200 for material, but fortunately bought at discount through a friend. At list, figure $300+.
I found the Algrip was no harder to get a mirror finish than applying one part poly, but mixing and timing was more complicated, but doable by a rank novice.
A critical factor in gettin a good result was in the sanding and prep. A rotary orbital like a Portal Cable is a huge help.Only the best gold sandpaper is wort using and the proper grits.It's also critical to use a guide coat after the second coat of base. This is a thin coat of flat black on the white base that shows every tiny imperfection and must be sanded off completely before topcoating. I skipped this on my previous job,and deserved the poor result.
Now, my CD 25 looks great, and will for many years. I think anyone who can varnish or paint gloss, can brush on the exotic paints with near professional results, as long as no short cuts are taken.
The problem now is, the hull looks a bit dowdy, and my ops officer thinks she would love to have a flag blue hull. Awlgrip of course.
Good sailing Ron Brassord Lighthouse Pt. Fl.

Ron

Sounds like the results were better than expected. My question is this: Did the finished look show as good as if it were sprayed? Hard to believe the brush strokes totally dissapear. Is this true and it is a mirror look with no distortions? thanks. craig

Craig I did get a mirror finish with no brushstrokes whatsoever. I am sure this is due to the "guide coat" that was applied and completely sanded off just before the application of the topcoat. Awlgrip will level unbelievably smoth, but if there are imperfections underneath they will glare through. It's of interest that the big boat yards here paint the mega yachts with several men to a side brushing together at different levels. They claim they get better gloss than spraying.
Honestly, I think spraying does a better job on small boats, but maybe this is because professionals do the spraying and amateurs brush? A professional job on my boat would have cost $3000+ and I spent $200. I can live with the brushing for that.
Good sailing RON B



RDBRASS@aol.com

[Marc]

Hi Ron,
Could you tell me how the "guide coat" work, i know how to do a good job with an one part paint but i avoid Awlgrip because i was not sure if was able to do a nice look.
If i understand: you sand, prime, paint the guide coat and sand the guide coat after that you paint with Awlgrip.
What kind of paint is the guide coat and do you brush or roll it?

Thank's

Marc

Maybe someone would be interested in the specifics of an Awlgrip paint job on a CD 25? I recently acquired a 1978 that had baked in the Florida sun and cooked the gel coat beyond restoration. I considered painting from the rail up with a one part polyurethane which I had good results on my work boat, but which requires yearly recovering.Instead, I opted for Awlgrip, with reservations, because of very limited experiance, and a poor result on a small boat. I read the product literature and bought the proper undercoating and a white topcoat. The job took about 60 hard hours to completion using a brush all the way. The two coats of undercoating 545 used exactly one unit[two quarts] with none to srare. The two topcoats used exactly one unit which is about two quarts when mixed, with none to spare. The total cost was about $200 for material, but fortunately bought at discount through a friend. At list, figure $300+.
I found the Algrip was no harder to get a mirror finish than applying one part poly, but mixing and timing was more complicated, but doable by a rank novice.
A critical factor in gettin a good result was in the sanding and prep. A rotary orbital like a Portal Cable is a huge help.Only the best gold sandpaper is wort using and the proper grits.It's also critical to use a guide coat after the second coat of base. This is a thin coat of flat black on the white base that shows every tiny imperfection and must be sanded off completely before topcoating. I skipped this on my previous job,and deserved the poor result.
Now, my CD 25 looks great, and will for many years. I think anyone who can varnish or paint gloss, can brush on the exotic paints with near professional results, as long as no short cuts are taken.
The problem now is, the hull looks a bit dowdy, and my ops officer thinks she would love to have a flag blue hull. Awlgrip of course.
Good sailing Ron Brassord Lighthouse Pt. Fl.

Ron

Sounds like the results were better than expected. My question is this: Did the finished look show as good as if it were sprayed? Hard to believe the brush strokes totally dissapear. Is this true and it is a mirror look with no distortions? thanks. craig

Craig I did get a mirror finish with no brushstrokes whatsoever. I am sure this is due to the "guide coat" that was applied and completely sanded off just before the application of the topcoat. Awlgrip will level unbelievably smoth, but if there are imperfections underneath they will glare through. It's of interest that the big boat yards here paint the mega yachts with several men to a side brushing together at different levels. They claim they get better gloss than spraying.
Honestly, I think spraying does a better job on small boats, but maybe this is because professionals do the spraying and amateurs brush? A professional job on my boat would have cost $3000+ and I spent $200. I can live with the brushing for that.
Good sailing RON B

adrenaline@vif.com

[James Kimbrel]

Good Job!!!

Just wanted to suggest that you keep in mind that the darker the paint the hotter the hull. As a Florida native, I can attest to the higher heat produced from a dark surface as compared to a white surface. It makes a big difference.

Good Luck!

Maybe someone would be interested in the specifics of an Awlgrip paint job on a CD 25? I recently acquired a 1978 that had baked in the Florida sun and cooked the gel coat beyond restoration. I considered painting from the rail up with a one part polyurethane which I had good results on my work boat, but which requires yearly recovering.Instead, I opted for Awlgrip, with reservations, because of very limited experiance, and a poor result on a small boat. I read the product literature and bought the proper undercoating and a white topcoat. The job took about 60 hard hours to completion using a brush all the way. The two coats of undercoating 545 used exactly one unit[two quarts] with none to srare. The two topcoats used exactly one unit which is about two quarts when mixed, with none to spare. The total cost was about $200 for material, but fortunately bought at discount through a friend. At list, figure $300+.
I found the Algrip was no harder to get a mirror finish than applying one part poly, but mixing and timing was more complicated, but doable by a rank novice.
A critical factor in gettin a good result was in the sanding and prep. A rotary orbital like a Portal Cable is a huge help.Only the best gold sandpaper is wort using and the proper grits.It's also critical to use a guide coat after the second coat of base. This is a thin coat of flat black on the white base that shows every tiny imperfection and must be sanded off completely before topcoating. I skipped this on my previous job,and deserved the poor result.
Now, my CD 25 looks great, and will for many years. I think anyone who can varnish or paint gloss, can brush on the exotic paints with near professional results, as long as no short cuts are taken.
The problem now is, the hull looks a bit dowdy, and my ops officer thinks she would love to have a flag blue hull. Awlgrip of course.
Good sailing Ron Brassord Lighthouse Pt. Fl.

jameskimbrel@hotmail.com

[tim]

Painted the whole deck in one shot. Started at the bow the first time, but decided it was better to do the top part of the deck, the work forward and finish the cockpit last.

I also took anything off that I could get off. Used the oportunity to refinish the wood and buff the stainless. I think I had two pieces of hardware left on the deck that I needed to mask. Well worth the effort of removing all hardware. Deck looks great and I was able to improve some backing plates and replace some cracked parts.

I also read all literature available from US Paint. They failed to cover dew, other than recommended dew point spreads, but here in Florida we have temperatures in the high 70's during winter days and it drops to low 50's during the night causing dew to settle on the new paint. If the paint hasn't had a good 12 hours to dry, it will look awful and you will have to apply another coat. Not really a problem unless this was going to be your last coat.

I would use Awlgrip again over any other paint I know! It really does turn out great, but it's kind of a pain to get it on right the first time.



thluke@bellsouth.net

[Ron Brassord]

Hi Ron,
Could you tell me how the "guide coat" work, i know how to do a good job with an one part paint but i avoid Awlgrip because i was not sure if was able to do a nice look.
If i understand: you sand, prime, paint the guide coat and sand the guide coat after that you paint with Awlgrip.
What kind of paint is the guide coat and do you brush or roll it?

Thank's

Marc

Ron

Sounds like the results were better than expected. My question is this: Did the finished look show as good as if it were sprayed? Hard to believe the brush strokes totally dissapear. Is this true and it is a mirror look with no distortions? thanks. craig

Craig I did get a mirror finish with no brushstrokes whatsoever. I am sure this is due to the "guide coat" that was applied and completely sanded off just before the application of the topcoat. Awlgrip will level unbelievably smoth, but if there are imperfections underneath they will glare through. It's of interest that the big boat yards here paint the mega yachts with several men to a side brushing together at different levels. They claim they get better gloss than spraying.
Honestly, I think spraying does a better job on small boats, but maybe this is because professionals do the spraying and amateurs brush? A professional job on my boat would have cost $3000+ and I spent $200. I can live with the brushing for that.
Good sailing RON B

Marc The guide coat goes on the last coat of base just before the first top coat. Awlgrip recommends a spray flat black lacquer that is misted on lightly. The black particles get into all the little groves, brush marks etc. When you sand, the black disappears as the surface comes smooth. Two results are obtained, smoothness is visualized, and you can see when to stop, and not sand through the base. There is no way a good job can be obtained without this process. You might have at some time seen a boat in a yard that looked like some one had sprayed black graffitti all over it? This was a guide coat
If you have worked with one part poly and got a good result, you should have no problem brushing Awlgrip topcoat.Just be sure to follow all the prep procedures. U S Paint has an application guide as a handout at any dealers that gives the whole process. I have a work boat that was Awlgripped 8 years ago, and still looks good. I think the extra effort is worth it. Good luck Ron B



RDBRASS@aol.com

[Marc]

Thank's Ron,
I will use your advice for my next paint job. I almost complete my work on my Alberg 22, but i saw in the internet somes others sailboats projects, so... ( i must be crazy!)

Marc
A22

Hi Ron,
Could you tell me how the "guide coat" work, i know how to do a good job with an one part paint but i avoid Awlgrip because i was not sure if was able to do a nice look.
If i understand: you sand, prime, paint the guide coat and sand the guide coat after that you paint with Awlgrip.
What kind of paint is the guide coat and do you brush or roll it?

Thank's

Marc

Craig I did get a mirror finish with no brushstrokes whatsoever. I am sure this is due to the "guide coat" that was applied and completely sanded off just before the application of the topcoat. Awlgrip will level unbelievably smoth, but if there are imperfections underneath they will glare through. It's of interest that the big boat yards here paint the mega yachts with several men to a side brushing together at different levels. They claim they get better gloss than spraying.
Honestly, I think spraying does a better job on small boats, but maybe this is because professionals do the spraying and amateurs brush? A professional job on my boat would have cost $3000+ and I spent $200. I can live with the brushing for that.
Good sailing RON B

Marc The guide coat goes on the last coat of base just before the first top coat. Awlgrip recommends a spray flat black lacquer that is misted on lightly. The black particles get into all the little groves, brush marks etc. When you sand, the black disappears as the surface comes smooth. Two results are obtained, smoothness is visualized, and you can see when to stop, and not sand through the base. There is no way a good job can be obtained without this process. You might have at some time seen a boat in a yard that looked like some one had sprayed black graffitti all over it? This was a guide coat
If you have worked with one part poly and got a good result, you should have no problem brushing Awlgrip topcoat.Just be sure to follow all the prep procedures. U S Paint has an application guide as a handout at any dealers that gives the whole process. I have a work boat that was Awlgripped 8 years ago, and still looks good. I think the extra effort is worth it. Good luck Ron B

adrenaline@vif.com