I am planning a trip to look at and buy a 1977 CD30 Ketch and have some questions:
The boat is rigged with a club footed jib and I would like to replace it with a RF genoa. Any suggestions on what size to add? Will this help the speed and pointing much? Is there any reason to keep the fore deck cluttered with the club pole?
The boat uses a worm gear and I will need to add an autopilot. Any suggestions on mounting an autopilot? I sailed on another boat with a worm gear and the steering seemed very tight, how will a belt driven autopilot handle this? Any worm gear problems I should look for?
Any problems with the v-drive on these boats other than the engine access? How about v-drive maintance?
Other comments on the boat?
Thanks.
Bob
Cape Dory 30 Questions
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Olli Wendelin
Re: Cape Dory 30 Questions
Bob,
Last summer I bought a 1977 Cape Dory 30 Ketch. Currently I am having a new set of sails made. For headsails I have a 100% club footed jib with one set of reefs and also a 155% genoa. My old genoa was 159%. I considered a RF genoa but decided against it. My sailmaker concurred. Much depends on where you sail and how you sail. Beating to weather in a stiff breeze the club footed jib is a joy. I tack back and forth without touching the sheets. It is also handy when the cockpit is full of guests. If the wind really picks up I can put a reef in the jib just like the old sailing ships. The genoa really adds a lot of horsepower in light winds. If I only sailed in winds less than 15 knots a 155% RF genoa would be possible. From what I have seen and heard roller reefing does not really perform well when reefed. Also if the wind really picks up how do you attach a storm jib over an RF genoa?
Check the worm gear supports for corrosion. They are mild steel and hard to see. For the forward support remove the wheel house cover and use a mirror. It is located underneath the worm assembly around the rudder shaft. For good access the wheel and wheelhouse need to be removed. Not as hard as it sounds. The aft supports are located in the lazarett. You need to get in the cockpit locker and crawl aft. I will be reinforcing my aft supports this winter. Their cross section has been reduced due to corrosion and lack of repainting.
My v-drive and engine have worked like a champ. Note that the v-drive has its own oil dipstick.
Get a good surveyor. I had a survey done last month. It took 5-1/2 hours. Among other things the surveyor rode a bosun's chair up and down both masts checking all the rigging with a 5X magnifier.
If you have any other questions contact me.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
Last summer I bought a 1977 Cape Dory 30 Ketch. Currently I am having a new set of sails made. For headsails I have a 100% club footed jib with one set of reefs and also a 155% genoa. My old genoa was 159%. I considered a RF genoa but decided against it. My sailmaker concurred. Much depends on where you sail and how you sail. Beating to weather in a stiff breeze the club footed jib is a joy. I tack back and forth without touching the sheets. It is also handy when the cockpit is full of guests. If the wind really picks up I can put a reef in the jib just like the old sailing ships. The genoa really adds a lot of horsepower in light winds. If I only sailed in winds less than 15 knots a 155% RF genoa would be possible. From what I have seen and heard roller reefing does not really perform well when reefed. Also if the wind really picks up how do you attach a storm jib over an RF genoa?
Check the worm gear supports for corrosion. They are mild steel and hard to see. For the forward support remove the wheel house cover and use a mirror. It is located underneath the worm assembly around the rudder shaft. For good access the wheel and wheelhouse need to be removed. Not as hard as it sounds. The aft supports are located in the lazarett. You need to get in the cockpit locker and crawl aft. I will be reinforcing my aft supports this winter. Their cross section has been reduced due to corrosion and lack of repainting.
My v-drive and engine have worked like a champ. Note that the v-drive has its own oil dipstick.
Get a good surveyor. I had a survey done last month. It took 5-1/2 hours. Among other things the surveyor rode a bosun's chair up and down both masts checking all the rigging with a 5X magnifier.
If you have any other questions contact me.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
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Bob McReynolds
Re: Cape Dory 30 Questions
Olli,
Thanks for all the great information!
I guess what I had in mind was something like a 130% genoa on a roller furler that could be used in all wind conditions. As the wind increased, I would reef the main to the 2nd reef point and then start taking wraps on the RF. When the genoa was shorten to around 90%, I would re-lead the sheets to the blocks that are currently used for the club footed jib to improve the sail shape. After that it's drop the main and start praying!!
I raced on a soling for many years and understand how nice a self tacking jib is. On the other hand, I sailed across the Atlantic and see the RF as a real safety item.
Bob
Thanks for all the great information!
I guess what I had in mind was something like a 130% genoa on a roller furler that could be used in all wind conditions. As the wind increased, I would reef the main to the 2nd reef point and then start taking wraps on the RF. When the genoa was shorten to around 90%, I would re-lead the sheets to the blocks that are currently used for the club footed jib to improve the sail shape. After that it's drop the main and start praying!!
I raced on a soling for many years and understand how nice a self tacking jib is. On the other hand, I sailed across the Atlantic and see the RF as a real safety item.
Bob
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Cape Dory 30 Questions
Bob,
I just purchased "Hanalei" CD-30, hull #324, this spring. Before her, I used my brother's CD-30B (different interior configuration, all head forward instead of "V" berth)for about 3 years until he lost her to the bank! Both ships were originally cutter rigged. My brother had removed the club footed staysail and added a large(150 - 160) roller furling genoa. He did this because where he sailed(Western Long Island Sound, Southport, CT area)there wasn't much wind in the summer time. Hanalei on the other hand, has the original jib (converted to roller furler) and original staysail. My experience this summer shows that the original cutter rig is better in 10 - 15 knot winds than the other arrangement with the large genoa. Between 5 - 10 knots I fly the main, staysail and an asymetrical spinaker. Hanalei came with an asymetrical or cruising spinaker. That spinaker is a little over 800 sq. ft! Flying that with a 400+ main esentially triples the area exposed to the wind!(plus a little more with the staysail flying!) If you don't have a cruising spinaker, get one and leave all else as you found it. The asymetrical is not difficult to fly, two can do it easily. It is easy to take down into the cockpit by releasing the clew at the bow sprit and easing off the halyard. By far, I think it is better than a genny alone. Oh, I do take down the roller furled jib if I'm planning on flying the asymetrical, only takes a few minutes and it's easy to re-install(you need to do this because there's only two halyards).
For your other questions, Hanalei has a Universal 18, 14 hp diesel, so I can't help you on that one. My engine is straight drive and access is easier. The worm steering shouldn't be a problem, Autohelm could probably answer your questions. I would think any good auto helm would have enough power to drive your helm. Hope all this helps or adds a little at least.
D. Stump
Captain Commanding
On Board "Hanalei"
Noank, CT
I just purchased "Hanalei" CD-30, hull #324, this spring. Before her, I used my brother's CD-30B (different interior configuration, all head forward instead of "V" berth)for about 3 years until he lost her to the bank! Both ships were originally cutter rigged. My brother had removed the club footed staysail and added a large(150 - 160) roller furling genoa. He did this because where he sailed(Western Long Island Sound, Southport, CT area)there wasn't much wind in the summer time. Hanalei on the other hand, has the original jib (converted to roller furler) and original staysail. My experience this summer shows that the original cutter rig is better in 10 - 15 knot winds than the other arrangement with the large genoa. Between 5 - 10 knots I fly the main, staysail and an asymetrical spinaker. Hanalei came with an asymetrical or cruising spinaker. That spinaker is a little over 800 sq. ft! Flying that with a 400+ main esentially triples the area exposed to the wind!(plus a little more with the staysail flying!) If you don't have a cruising spinaker, get one and leave all else as you found it. The asymetrical is not difficult to fly, two can do it easily. It is easy to take down into the cockpit by releasing the clew at the bow sprit and easing off the halyard. By far, I think it is better than a genny alone. Oh, I do take down the roller furled jib if I'm planning on flying the asymetrical, only takes a few minutes and it's easy to re-install(you need to do this because there's only two halyards).
For your other questions, Hanalei has a Universal 18, 14 hp diesel, so I can't help you on that one. My engine is straight drive and access is easier. The worm steering shouldn't be a problem, Autohelm could probably answer your questions. I would think any good auto helm would have enough power to drive your helm. Hope all this helps or adds a little at least.
D. Stump
Captain Commanding
On Board "Hanalei"
Noank, CT
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john churchill, CD 26 S
re:assym spinnaker
i am interested in a assymetric spinnaker. i have only a jib halyard for my roller furler, which i can drop, but i thought that the halyard had to be outside the forestay. also, how is the sail attached to the bow? does it just attach to the tack snap shackle? where does it sheet to? if it is really big, does it come too far aft for the genny track block? also how about a spinnaker sock? does anyone use these things when singlehanding, or is that just for BOC supermen?
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Brad
Re: re:assym spinnaker
John:
I have an assymetric spinnaker that came with my CD32 purchased this spring. My boat is rigged with a separate spinnaker halyard which allows the lead at the head to go to either side of the forestay without chafeing the halyard.
The foot is connected through a pulley fairlead at the bow and either cleated on the foredeck or led back to the cockpit for easier adjustment. I've run the sheet several different ways, trying to find the best results. My boat has an outboard track for my genny. I place the car as far astern as possible and then through the stern pulley back to my winch.
I'd recommend a sock if you are short on crew. Ours has one and I've never had any problems deploying or recovering the chute. It's really a kick to fly adding significant boat speed off the wind. Looks great too. I'm on the Chesapeake, near Baltimore. You are welcome aboard anytime if you are in the area.
Brad
(P.S. Check out SAIL's ($18.00)latest book on sail trim. There is a good article on assymetric sails in there.)
bmeilink@shentel.net
I have an assymetric spinnaker that came with my CD32 purchased this spring. My boat is rigged with a separate spinnaker halyard which allows the lead at the head to go to either side of the forestay without chafeing the halyard.
The foot is connected through a pulley fairlead at the bow and either cleated on the foredeck or led back to the cockpit for easier adjustment. I've run the sheet several different ways, trying to find the best results. My boat has an outboard track for my genny. I place the car as far astern as possible and then through the stern pulley back to my winch.
I'd recommend a sock if you are short on crew. Ours has one and I've never had any problems deploying or recovering the chute. It's really a kick to fly adding significant boat speed off the wind. Looks great too. I'm on the Chesapeake, near Baltimore. You are welcome aboard anytime if you are in the area.
Brad
(P.S. Check out SAIL's ($18.00)latest book on sail trim. There is a good article on assymetric sails in there.)
john churchill, CD 26 SKUA wrote: i am interested in a assymetric spinnaker. i have only a jib halyard for my roller furler, which i can drop, but i thought that the halyard had to be outside the forestay. also, how is the sail attached to the bow? does it just attach to the tack snap shackle? where does it sheet to? if it is really big, does it come too far aft for the genny track block? also how about a spinnaker sock? does anyone use these things when singlehanding, or is that just for BOC supermen?
bmeilink@shentel.net
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: re:assym spinnaker
John,
With the roller furling gear on Hanalei, I didn't have clear access to the jib tack (?). I fixed a stainless(wanted bronze, but couldn't get one) "U" bolt with top and bottom plates through the bowsprit almost directly straight down from the top rail of the bow pulpit. Actually it's right in front of the plate the forestay attaches to. A snap shackle was attacked to the U bolt before fixing it to the 'sprit. The tack of the asymetrical has a two foot long piece of three strand spliced into the gringle with a loop on the other end that hooks into the snap shackle. The two foot piece of line puts the foot of the sail right at bow pulpit height. As for the halyard, an asymetrical as I know it is a sail you would fly if you're going to be on one tack for a long time (i.e.: cruising), when the spinaker's flying, the head of the thing is off to leeward, so the halyard never touches the forstay, and no chafe. If you tack the spinaker(actually a gibe), the single sheet is lead around the forestay, brought back on the opposite side and trimmed(I haven't tried this yet, but will let you know). Once you do this, the halyard would I think, make contact with the forestay and could chafe. As far as running the sheet, Hanalei has two deck blocks, one port, one starboard, just in front of the stern pulpit. The single sheet runs outside of everything to this single block, and is lead back to the jib sheet winch, and cleated off at the cleat on the cockpit combing. You don't need the cars and positioning adjustments that you would need for a large genny. Everything is outside!
Hope this clarifies things a little. There is a picture of an asymetrical on the original CD-30 advertising booklet front page. I don't have a scanner, but could mail you a copy of it if you've an address. It is a really "neat" sail(I think the kids today would say it was "large") and it is that too!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
With the roller furling gear on Hanalei, I didn't have clear access to the jib tack (?). I fixed a stainless(wanted bronze, but couldn't get one) "U" bolt with top and bottom plates through the bowsprit almost directly straight down from the top rail of the bow pulpit. Actually it's right in front of the plate the forestay attaches to. A snap shackle was attacked to the U bolt before fixing it to the 'sprit. The tack of the asymetrical has a two foot long piece of three strand spliced into the gringle with a loop on the other end that hooks into the snap shackle. The two foot piece of line puts the foot of the sail right at bow pulpit height. As for the halyard, an asymetrical as I know it is a sail you would fly if you're going to be on one tack for a long time (i.e.: cruising), when the spinaker's flying, the head of the thing is off to leeward, so the halyard never touches the forstay, and no chafe. If you tack the spinaker(actually a gibe), the single sheet is lead around the forestay, brought back on the opposite side and trimmed(I haven't tried this yet, but will let you know). Once you do this, the halyard would I think, make contact with the forestay and could chafe. As far as running the sheet, Hanalei has two deck blocks, one port, one starboard, just in front of the stern pulpit. The single sheet runs outside of everything to this single block, and is lead back to the jib sheet winch, and cleated off at the cleat on the cockpit combing. You don't need the cars and positioning adjustments that you would need for a large genny. Everything is outside!
Hope this clarifies things a little. There is a picture of an asymetrical on the original CD-30 advertising booklet front page. I don't have a scanner, but could mail you a copy of it if you've an address. It is a really "neat" sail(I think the kids today would say it was "large") and it is that too!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
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chuck yahrling
Re: re:assym spinnaker
I have a North genniker (aka asym spiinaker, drifter, etc.) that came with my CD-27, and have had great success singlehanding with it. Key points:john churchill, CD 26 SKUA wrote: i am interested in a assymetric spinnaker. i have only a jib halyard for my roller furler, which i can drop, but i thought that the halyard had to be outside the forestay. also, how is the sail attached to the bow? does it just attach to the tack snap shackle? where does it sheet to? if it is really big, does it come too far aft for the genny track block? also how about a spinnaker sock? does anyone use these things when singlehanding, or is that just for BOC supermen?
- the tack is a conventional hank that goes around the forestay. If you have a roller furling rig, you use a parrel bead hank around the furled sail. Other then the halyard and "downhaul" pennant (below) the rest of the luff is free.
- you adjust the tack up for off-wind and down to pulpit height for reaching. I rig a small block on a Wichard snap and clip it to the stem plate, leading the "downhaul" line to a cockpit cleat
- I setup an extra masthead block outside the forestay for the halyard, but found I didn't really need to: it's actually easier to tack the drifterthan to gybe it, and you don't have to re-rig the sheet outside the forestay. Thus, a halyard inside the forestay would have worked.
- I'm able to close reach with the drifter almost as well as with the 150. However, to get close to the wind you need to be able to pull the luff pretty straight, so make sure the drifter you get has a luff dimension that's no longer than your foretay length.
- the sock is absolutely mandatory, IMHO. It makes dowsing the sail very simple and foolproof. I have the sock downhaul led to the cockpit so I can dowse the drifter without going forward.
It's a very versatile sail and ideal for 2-12 kts!
yahrling@cybertours.com
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Don S.
Re: re:assym spinnaker
The cruising spinnaker that came with the CD25D #189 I just bought is a Thurston Thrasher. It's like new, I doubt it has ever been flown. It has a strap affair with d-rings on the ends to go around the furler (a velcro band holds it closed.) But I don't know what to do next. Does the tack lead just go loosely thru' the rings to the sail so the tack block has control? Does the whole strap slide around on the furler when jibing? Should the strap be set tight enough to hold the tack above the pulpit or loose enough to be lifted by the sail? Is it flown by controlling the sheets and the tack lead and the halyard as well?
don@cliggott.com
chuck yahrling wrote:I have a North genniker (aka asym spiinaker, drifter, etc.) that came with my CD-27, and have had great success singlehanding with it. Key points:john churchill, CD 26 SKUA wrote: i am interested in a assymetric spinnaker. i have only a jib halyard for my roller furler, which i can drop, but i thought that the halyard had to be outside the forestay. also, how is the sail attached to the bow? does it just attach to the tack snap shackle? where does it sheet to? if it is really big, does it come too far aft for the genny track block? also how about a spinnaker sock? does anyone use these things when singlehanding, or is that just for BOC supermen?
- the tack is a conventional hank that goes around the forestay. If you have a roller furling rig, you use a parrel bead hank around the furled sail. Other then the halyard and "downhaul" pennant (below) the rest of the luff is free.
- you adjust the tack up for off-wind and down to pulpit height for reaching. I rig a small block on a Wichard snap and clip it to the stem plate, leading the "downhaul" line to a cockpit cleat
- I setup an extra masthead block outside the forestay for the halyard, but found I didn't really need to: it's actually easier to tack the drifterthan to gybe it, and you don't have to re-rig the sheet outside the forestay. Thus, a halyard inside the forestay would have worked.
- I'm able to close reach with the drifter almost as well as with the 150. However, to get close to the wind you need to be able to pull the luff pretty straight, so make sure the drifter you get has a luff dimension that's no longer than your foretay length.
- the sock is absolutely mandatory, IMHO. It makes dowsing the sail very simple and foolproof. I have the sock downhaul led to the cockpit so I can dowse the drifter without going forward.
It's a very versatile sail and ideal for 2-12 kts!
don@cliggott.com