Awhile back there was some discusson about rig tunning in general, but I don't believe anyone mentioned mast rake or bend put into the mast. Currently my mast is pretty straight and without any noticable rake to it. I'm wondering what the difference would be if I added a little rake and bend into it.
What's everybody out there doing and what have you heard re: the position and shape of masts on Cape Dory boats. How does it effect sailing characteristics and so forth.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
Mast rake - straight....bend?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Neil Gordon
Re: Mast rake - straight....bend?
>>Currently my mast is pretty straight and without any noticable rake to it. I'm wondering what the difference would be if I added a little rake and bend into it.<<
How does your boat sail now? "A little rake and bend" will move the center of effort aft, which will increase weather helm. Is that something you need more of?
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY, Boston
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
How does your boat sail now? "A little rake and bend" will move the center of effort aft, which will increase weather helm. Is that something you need more of?
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY, Boston
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: You are rigged just as the directions.......
Captain Turner,
You are rigged just as the CD Owners Manual states: mast in column, no rake, no bend. If you have to much weather helm, it is probably because ya has an old bagged out main. Don't try to correct that with a rake, buy a new main. Cape Dory rigs all of it's vessels with mast in column. These are NOT racing boats like a J-24 that was designed to have a changeable bend in the mast. FWIW........
D. Stump
Hanalei
You are rigged just as the CD Owners Manual states: mast in column, no rake, no bend. If you have to much weather helm, it is probably because ya has an old bagged out main. Don't try to correct that with a rake, buy a new main. Cape Dory rigs all of it's vessels with mast in column. These are NOT racing boats like a J-24 that was designed to have a changeable bend in the mast. FWIW........
D. Stump
Hanalei
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Richard Formica
Re: Mast rake - straight....bend?
I agree with the previous comments on keeping the mast in column and this is confirmed be my rigger. The one benefit to an adjustable backstay on CD's is that it can help tension your forstay for better roller furler function and better jib shape. This would probably not produce a noticable bend. I occasionally sail on a Mason 44 and this year the new toy is an adjustable backstay. Same type of boat/mast. The improvement in the roller furler is at least noticable. Can't really comment on head sail function. At the end of the day you can take the tension off the rig
rich
CD36
rich
CD36
Patrick Turner wrote: Awhile back there was some discusson about rig tunning in general, but I don't believe anyone mentioned mast rake or bend put into the mast. Currently my mast is pretty straight and without any noticable rake to it. I'm wondering what the difference would be if I added a little rake and bend into it.
What's everybody out there doing and what have you heard re: the position and shape of masts on Cape Dory boats. How does it effect sailing characteristics and so forth.
Pat
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Roger
Re: Mast rake - straight....bend?
All things in moderation...see earlier replies. To answer your questions:
1. Adding rake does two principal things. First, it adds weather helm if raked aft or lee helm if raked forward by moving the center of effort in the sail plan fore/aft. Second, it reduces forestay tension by lowering the mast height. In general, don't rake forward...and only small amounts for a CD cabin stepped mast. While counter intuitive, rake fore or aft will reduce forstay tension -- so adjust to suit your sailing (wind) conditions accordingly.
2. Adding (pre)bend by adjusting the lower shrouds to bend the mast forward will flatten your mainsail by increasing its cord length from leach to luff. This helps depower the sail in high winds and reduces drag (adds speed). It also benefits (reduces) weather helm because the mainsail's draft will move forward, just like a cunningham. For a baggy main, this will probably not be noticable -- so just bite the bullet and get a new sail.
On my CD Intrepid 9m with 2 yr old sails, I start by trying to get the rig in column and headstay tension set. This produces a well-balanced helm needing less than 3 deg tiller when going to windward. If I add any adjustment, it's a little prebend on my lowers and a little rake aft (less than 1 " on a 40 ft. mast) since I don't have an adjustable backstay. On a Ranger 26 I race, we put ~1" aft rake in its 30ft(?) cabin stepped mast to noticably improve helm performance with its recent sails (2 yrs). Since this has an adjustable backstay, no prebend is needed. On a J-35 I race, we have lots of prebend and rake (several inches for our sailing region) with hydraulics.
Caution is recommeded - the mast carry's high compressive loads down the column and you don't want to risk it buckling if you start moving things wildly.
Bottom line: I own a CD for a reason - quality, confidence, simplicity and its seaworthyness. Racing performance is another matter -- and for me is best done on other types of boats.
Roger
S/V Felicity
CD Intrepid 9M
Portsmouth
1. Adding rake does two principal things. First, it adds weather helm if raked aft or lee helm if raked forward by moving the center of effort in the sail plan fore/aft. Second, it reduces forestay tension by lowering the mast height. In general, don't rake forward...and only small amounts for a CD cabin stepped mast. While counter intuitive, rake fore or aft will reduce forstay tension -- so adjust to suit your sailing (wind) conditions accordingly.
2. Adding (pre)bend by adjusting the lower shrouds to bend the mast forward will flatten your mainsail by increasing its cord length from leach to luff. This helps depower the sail in high winds and reduces drag (adds speed). It also benefits (reduces) weather helm because the mainsail's draft will move forward, just like a cunningham. For a baggy main, this will probably not be noticable -- so just bite the bullet and get a new sail.
On my CD Intrepid 9m with 2 yr old sails, I start by trying to get the rig in column and headstay tension set. This produces a well-balanced helm needing less than 3 deg tiller when going to windward. If I add any adjustment, it's a little prebend on my lowers and a little rake aft (less than 1 " on a 40 ft. mast) since I don't have an adjustable backstay. On a Ranger 26 I race, we put ~1" aft rake in its 30ft(?) cabin stepped mast to noticably improve helm performance with its recent sails (2 yrs). Since this has an adjustable backstay, no prebend is needed. On a J-35 I race, we have lots of prebend and rake (several inches for our sailing region) with hydraulics.
Caution is recommeded - the mast carry's high compressive loads down the column and you don't want to risk it buckling if you start moving things wildly.
Bottom line: I own a CD for a reason - quality, confidence, simplicity and its seaworthyness. Racing performance is another matter -- and for me is best done on other types of boats.
Roger
S/V Felicity
CD Intrepid 9M
Portsmouth
Patrick Turner wrote: Awhile back there was some discusson about rig tunning in general, but I don't believe anyone mentioned mast rake or bend put into the mast. Currently my mast is pretty straight and without any noticable rake to it. I'm wondering what the difference would be if I added a little rake and bend into it.
What's everybody out there doing and what have you heard re: the position and shape of masts on Cape Dory boats. How does it effect sailing characteristics and so forth.
Pat