Toe Rail - sealing and how it affects the deck joint

[Brian W.]

Hi. I've been investigating to source of a leak we've got on our 33(which I've posted about before) that can actually take in a few gallons of water if on an extended starboard tack with the "rails in" (i.e. should probably be reefed).

The water seems to drip down the inside of the hull and collect in the aft cabinet below the port berth (right in front of the galley). I took off the large panel above the bookshelf that exposes the bolts for the stantions, etc. I noticed there's a fiberglass "lip" which I assume might be the deck joint (?). There are a few "gaps" about an inch large in the fiberglass at the outer edge of this lip- sort of an open bubble where the glass sagged slightly and hardended that way. I'm wondering if water can get through these little openings? Or is the hull/deck joint so "thorough" that these would be largely cosmetic?

Furthermore, I examined how the teak toe rail is attached, as I figure water might be seeping in here. is the sealent around the teak toe rail crucial for keeping the deck joint watertight? or is the deck joint watertight enough on it's own and the toe rail just cosmetic? I poked around the drain slits in the teak to clean them out and so forth. I noticed there was sealent on the bottom of the slit, and quite worn at this point. I poked the sealent out (not hard since it was so worn) and noticed a tiny hole in the glass. Tough to know too much about the hole since it was inside the toe rail and couldn't be easily seen. But since I wasn't aware there was sealent inside these drain slits, I'm wondering - do they need to be resealed on occasion? Could this be a cause of the leak?

Don't know if this makes sense, but I was hoping perhaps someone might have more information on this than I apparently have. I'm thinking my next step might be to get some brown Lifecaulk and reseal around the entire toe rail.

Thanks for any insight,

Brian W.

[Chris Scheck]

I know nothing about this, but we have a CD33 and I just had an idea. What if you wait until the inner joint is nice and dry and then blast the suspect spot with a hose from the outside? Have someone inside to watch and yell as soon as they see some water leaking in. Try spraying different places until you can see where it is coming in. You know what they say about leaks on a car windshield ... the place where the water is getting in is often a long way from the spot where the water drips on the inside. Another thought would be to pour some colored water on the deck and see if you can tell where it is leaking in. Or take an air hose inside the boat and blast air at the joint and see if you can feel air coming thru the joint on the outside.

Good luck!

Chris Scheck
CD33 Ragtime #117



cscheck@aol.com

[Boyd]

Hi Brian...

I have similar leaks on my CD30 MkII. I have traced them to the top rail. There are two teak rails. The lower one is the toe rail and the top is the ? rail... for the purposes of this discussion I will refer to it as the top rail. My leaks are just at the annoying stage. I dont think that the hull deck joint is to blame since there seems to be a simpler one. The screws that hold the top rail go thru the deck completely. The sealant that was used to bed the top rail has given it up and the screw holes are leaking. The clue for me was a water rivelet at 12-16" o.c. I am planning on rebedding the entire top rail as soon as possible. When you do it though be sure to inject some caulk into each screw hole in the fiberglass first so the screw is set in caulk. Put bedding (caulk) around each screw hole in a circle being meticulous and continous bed for the rail. I did this on a Hunter with great success.

You might also rebed the rub rail while you are at it. Those screws go thru as well. They just go thru the hull instead of the deck. Also check the stanction bases... another spot.

Good hunting

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30mkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Hi. I've been investigating to source of a leak we've got on our 33(which I've posted about before) that can actually take in a few gallons of water if on an extended starboard tack with the "rails in" (i.e. should probably be reefed).

The water seems to drip down the inside of the hull and collect in the aft cabinet below the port berth (right in front of the galley). I took off the large panel above the bookshelf that exposes the bolts for the stantions, etc. I noticed there's a fiberglass "lip" which I assume might be the deck joint (?). There are a few "gaps" about an inch large in the fiberglass at the outer edge of this lip- sort of an open bubble where the glass sagged slightly and hardended that way. I'm wondering if water can get through these little openings? Or is the hull/deck joint so "thorough" that these would be largely cosmetic?

Furthermore, I examined how the teak toe rail is attached, as I figure water might be seeping in here. is the sealent around the teak toe rail crucial for keeping the deck joint watertight? or is the deck joint watertight enough on it's own and the toe rail just cosmetic? I poked around the drain slits in the teak to clean them out and so forth. I noticed there was sealent on the bottom of the slit, and quite worn at this point. I poked the sealent out (not hard since it was so worn) and noticed a tiny hole in the glass. Tough to know too much about the hole since it was inside the toe rail and couldn't be easily seen. But since I wasn't aware there was sealent inside these drain slits, I'm wondering - do they need to be resealed on occasion? Could this be a cause of the leak?

Don't know if this makes sense, but I was hoping perhaps someone might have more information on this than I apparently have. I'm thinking my next step might be to get some brown Lifecaulk and reseal around the entire toe rail.

Thanks for any insight,

Brian W.

boyd@wbta.cc

[Andy Denmark]

Finding where the water is entering the hull interior is dead easy. Go to any hardware store and buy a small container of the blue or red "dust" that is used for the gadget that uses a cotton string to strike straight lines -- you have seen this -- a thing that winds a string into a container of colored dust. AS the string is pulled out covered with dust it is pulled tight and "popped" on a board to mark a perfectly straight line. Empty the container of "dust" into an old sock, and "pounce" it on the surface all around the area where you suspect water is entering. After spraying with a hose, sailing, raining, whatever, streaks will show across the dusted surface exactly where the water is coming from. We have done entire hull interiors this way -- it's cheap, easy, and fast (violating the basic law of marketing that says you can have only two of those three qualities at the same time).

Only rarely is one lucky enough to find the exterior leak close to where water shows up inside, otherwise such leaks would be easy to find and repair. I would check everything that is "higher" up than the leak -- ports, handrails, trim, mast step, dorade boxes, deck hardware, et al., well forward and aft of where the water shows up.

Just a few boatyard thoughts that might help.

Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC






trekker@coastalnet.com

[john doyle]

Hi. I've been investigating to source of a leak we've got on our 33(which I've posted about before) that can actually take in a few gallons of water if on an extended starboard tack with the "rails in" (i.e. should probably be reefed).

The water seems to drip down the inside of the hull and collect in the aft cabinet below the port berth (right in front of the galley). I took off the large panel above the bookshelf that exposes the bolts for the stantions, etc. I noticed there's a fiberglass "lip" which I assume might be the deck joint (?). There are a few "gaps" about an inch large in the fiberglass at the outer edge of this lip- sort of an open bubble where the glass sagged slightly and hardended that way. I'm wondering if water can get through these little openings? Or is the hull/deck joint so "thorough" that these would be largely cosmetic?

Furthermore, I examined how the teak toe rail is attached, as I figure water might be seeping in here. is the sealent around the teak toe rail crucial for keeping the deck joint watertight? or is the deck joint watertight enough on it's own and the toe rail just cosmetic? I poked around the drain slits in the teak to clean them out and so forth. I noticed there was sealent on the bottom of the slit, and quite worn at this point. I poked the sealent out (not hard since it was so worn) and noticed a tiny hole in the glass. Tough to know too much about the hole since it was inside the toe rail and couldn't be easily seen. But since I wasn't aware there was sealent inside these drain slits, I'm wondering - do they need to be resealed on occasion? Could this be a cause of the leak?

Don't know if this makes sense, but I was hoping perhaps someone might have more information on this than I apparently have. I'm thinking my next step might be to get some brown Lifecaulk and reseal around the entire toe rail.

Thanks for any insight,

Brian W.

Another thought. I just finished repairing wet balsa on the port deck around the shrouds. It was 4 feet long & as wide as the non skid. When we pulled the wet balsa up we found 3 small holes in the lower fiberglass skin that the balsa is set on. We had a leak in the cabin that we just couldn't find, but think we have now. The smallest gel coat crack will allow water into the core & it runs down hill wetting everything in it's path.
John CD31 #18
In beautiful Lake Lanier, Georgia



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[Brian W.]

thanks for the suggestions thus far.

Andy, I know the chalk you speak of. this is a good idea. I'll pick some up and try it.

Boyd, when you talk of rebedding the rail, I'm guessing you mean to remove the rail? this seems tricky. the section in question also has the track for the genoa block, so I'm guessing there are a lot of bolts. if one were to use Lifecaulk around the entire outside joint, where the two rails themselves are joined, and the deckside joint, would this keep water out without removing it? with the teak plugs for the screws, etc, it would seem like it would. ??

Thanks,

Brian

[Boyd]

Hi Brian...

Removing the rail and rebedding it in caulk is exactly what I mean. I doubt the effectiveness of anything else. A bead of caulk on the inside and outside of the rail/deck joint is going to look messy and probably will not do the job in the long run. The leak is really where the screws and bolts penetrate the deck. At least thats where mine is leaking. You might slow up the leaks that way but what a mess to take it off later. Yes there are a lot of screws and bolts to remove and the genoa track bolts go thru mine also.

I cured a similar problem on another boat this way... the screw penetrations are where the leaks were.

Its a dirty job and someone has to do it... lucky me... I am planning to do mine this fall after the rains stop.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla

thanks for the suggestions thus far.

Andy, I know the chalk you speak of. this is a good idea. I'll pick some up and try it.

Boyd, when you talk of rebedding the rail, I'm guessing you mean to remove the rail? this seems tricky. the section in question also has the track for the genoa block, so I'm guessing there are a lot of bolts. if one were to use Lifecaulk around the entire outside joint, where the two rails themselves are joined, and the deckside joint, would this keep water out without removing it? with the teak plugs for the screws, etc, it would seem like it would. ??

Thanks,

Brian

Boyd@wbta.cc