On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
meislandbill@yahoo.com
CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
Bill
Spartan makes beautiful bronze midship cleats/chocks that are designed to be mortised into the toerail, and installed with five bolts and a backing plate. CD generally did not install these on the smaller yachts like your 28 and my 27. Feeling the same as you, I bought two (they are almost $100 each!!!) and with a friend installed them on Second Chance. What a great upgrade. Now I run fore and aft spring lines from the midship cleats, and also use for a breast line to hold her in place while tying up. It is more work to install than a plain cleat, and probably more expensive, but it looks classy and is original CD quality, and as long as you're going to the trouble and expense of new cleats, it's not THAT much more work.
Spartan makes two sizes, depending on the size of the toerail to be mortised. My 27 used the smaller size. If you get a hold of the Spartan catalog the specs are in there.
Placement took some thought on my installation. On the 27 the toerail is fairly curved for the whole length of the boat, so I wanted to find the most relatively straight location to match the cleat. It just so happened that the best location was also about 12" aft of the chainplate backing structure, which area I would avoid. Location of lifeline stanchions and other gear may affect where to consider putting such cleats.
So my $0.02 is that if you are going to install midship cleats, don't put on plain cleats until you've at least considered the Spartan ones.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
goldy@bestweb.net
Spartan makes beautiful bronze midship cleats/chocks that are designed to be mortised into the toerail, and installed with five bolts and a backing plate. CD generally did not install these on the smaller yachts like your 28 and my 27. Feeling the same as you, I bought two (they are almost $100 each!!!) and with a friend installed them on Second Chance. What a great upgrade. Now I run fore and aft spring lines from the midship cleats, and also use for a breast line to hold her in place while tying up. It is more work to install than a plain cleat, and probably more expensive, but it looks classy and is original CD quality, and as long as you're going to the trouble and expense of new cleats, it's not THAT much more work.
Spartan makes two sizes, depending on the size of the toerail to be mortised. My 27 used the smaller size. If you get a hold of the Spartan catalog the specs are in there.
Placement took some thought on my installation. On the 27 the toerail is fairly curved for the whole length of the boat, so I wanted to find the most relatively straight location to match the cleat. It just so happened that the best location was also about 12" aft of the chainplate backing structure, which area I would avoid. Location of lifeline stanchions and other gear may affect where to consider putting such cleats.
So my $0.02 is that if you are going to install midship cleats, don't put on plain cleats until you've at least considered the Spartan ones.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
Bill wrote: On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
Bill's,
If it is at all possible, locate those midship cleats at the point on the toerail where the boat will lay parallel to the dock while under power.
The benefit here is that when docking, the midship spring line can be used to effectively dock the boat for you. Have the crew take the spring line with them when landing the boat. Attach it to the end of the dock's cleat, and then they can handle the bow and stern lines. Meanwhile the boat will swing gently side-to the dock, while you apply idle forward power. The boat can then be held this way under power while the remaining lines are sorted, adjusted and cleated off. This comes in handy when a wind has the audacity to blow from either side of the boat...saving your sterling reputation as a master docking savant.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
If it is at all possible, locate those midship cleats at the point on the toerail where the boat will lay parallel to the dock while under power.
The benefit here is that when docking, the midship spring line can be used to effectively dock the boat for you. Have the crew take the spring line with them when landing the boat. Attach it to the end of the dock's cleat, and then they can handle the bow and stern lines. Meanwhile the boat will swing gently side-to the dock, while you apply idle forward power. The boat can then be held this way under power while the remaining lines are sorted, adjusted and cleated off. This comes in handy when a wind has the audacity to blow from either side of the boat...saving your sterling reputation as a master docking savant.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Bill Goldsmith wrote: Bill
Spartan makes beautiful bronze midship cleats/chocks that are designed to be mortised into the toerail, and installed with five bolts and a backing plate. CD generally did not install these on the smaller yachts like your 28 and my 27. Feeling the same as you, I bought two (they are almost $100 each!!!) and with a friend installed them on Second Chance. What a great upgrade. Now I run fore and aft spring lines from the midship cleats, and also use for a breast line to hold her in place while tying up. It is more work to install than a plain cleat, and probably more expensive, but it looks classy and is original CD quality, and as long as you're going to the trouble and expense of new cleats, it's not THAT much more work.
Spartan makes two sizes, depending on the size of the toerail to be mortised. My 27 used the smaller size. If you get a hold of the Spartan catalog the specs are in there.
Placement took some thought on my installation. On the 27 the toerail is fairly curved for the whole length of the boat, so I wanted to find the most relatively straight location to match the cleat. It just so happened that the best location was also about 12" aft of the chainplate backing structure, which area I would avoid. Location of lifeline stanchions and other gear may affect where to consider putting such cleats.
So my $0.02 is that if you are going to install midship cleats, don't put on plain cleats until you've at least considered the Spartan ones.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
Bill wrote: On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
demers@sgi.com
-
Ken Coit
Re: CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
Bill,
I think that I am in agreement with both posts when I say that you want your Spartan midship cleats at the beamiest point or midway along it if the rail is straight for any distance; without measuring, I'd say that is where they are on Parfait. The rationale for this is that you would want fore and aft springs to be free of the hull and rub rail even in close quarters where they might be very close to parallel with the centerline of the hull. This maximizes the amount of yaw the boat can experience in the slip without chafe on the spring lines.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
I think that I am in agreement with both posts when I say that you want your Spartan midship cleats at the beamiest point or midway along it if the rail is straight for any distance; without measuring, I'd say that is where they are on Parfait. The rationale for this is that you would want fore and aft springs to be free of the hull and rub rail even in close quarters where they might be very close to parallel with the centerline of the hull. This maximizes the amount of yaw the boat can experience in the slip without chafe on the spring lines.
Keep on sailing,
Ken Coit
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
Larry DeMers wrote: Bill's,
If it is at all possible, locate those midship cleats at the point on the toerail where the boat will lay parallel to the dock while under power.
The benefit here is that when docking, the midship spring line can be used to effectively dock the boat for you. Have the crew take the spring line with them when landing the boat. Attach it to the end of the dock's cleat, and then they can handle the bow and stern lines. Meanwhile the boat will swing gently side-to the dock, while you apply idle forward power. The boat can then be held this way under power while the remaining lines are sorted, adjusted and cleated off. This comes in handy when a wind has the audacity to blow from either side of the boat...saving your sterling reputation as a master docking savant.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Bill Goldsmith wrote: Bill
Spartan makes beautiful bronze midship cleats/chocks that are designed to be mortised into the toerail, and installed with five bolts and a backing plate. CD generally did not install these on the smaller yachts like your 28 and my 27. Feeling the same as you, I bought two (they are almost $100 each!!!) and with a friend installed them on Second Chance. What a great upgrade. Now I run fore and aft spring lines from the midship cleats, and also use for a breast line to hold her in place while tying up. It is more work to install than a plain cleat, and probably more expensive, but it looks classy and is original CD quality, and as long as you're going to the trouble and expense of new cleats, it's not THAT much more work.
Spartan makes two sizes, depending on the size of the toerail to be mortised. My 27 used the smaller size. If you get a hold of the Spartan catalog the specs are in there.
Placement took some thought on my installation. On the 27 the toerail is fairly curved for the whole length of the boat, so I wanted to find the most relatively straight location to match the cleat. It just so happened that the best location was also about 12" aft of the chainplate backing structure, which area I would avoid. Location of lifeline stanchions and other gear may affect where to consider putting such cleats.
So my $0.02 is that if you are going to install midship cleats, don't put on plain cleats until you've at least considered the Spartan ones.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
Bill wrote: On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
-
Bill Goldsmith
Further Information from Spartan Catalog
The Spartan piece is called "Mid-Rail Chock" and is on Page 11 of Spartan's Catalog #13. There are two sizes, each available in burnished or polished bronze. There are six dimensions provided:
A: width at tip
B: width at base
H: Height
X: Angle inboard
Y: Angle outboard
OAL: Overall Length
Small (Part C229):
A: 1 1/16"
B: 1 3/8"
H: 1 1/16"
X: 8.5 degrees from vertical
Y: 8.5 degrees from vertical
OAL: 11.0"
Large (Part C212)
A: 1"
B: 1 1/4"
H: 1 1/2"
X: 12.0 degrees from vertical
Y: 0 degrees from vertical
OAL: 11 3/4"
Hope this helps.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
A: width at tip
B: width at base
H: Height
X: Angle inboard
Y: Angle outboard
OAL: Overall Length
Small (Part C229):
A: 1 1/16"
B: 1 3/8"
H: 1 1/16"
X: 8.5 degrees from vertical
Y: 8.5 degrees from vertical
OAL: 11.0"
Large (Part C212)
A: 1"
B: 1 1/4"
H: 1 1/2"
X: 12.0 degrees from vertical
Y: 0 degrees from vertical
OAL: 11 3/4"
Hope this helps.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Bill wrote: On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Craig Scott
Re: CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
I have an easier solution, Schaeffer makes a very nice stainless cleat meant to fit on your genoa track. I have purchased one for each side and love them. They are large enough to take 1/2" dock lines easily (big enough for my 28) and look good. Since they are positioned on the track they become adjustable as well. They don't require any carpentry or extra backing plates. I highly recommend them. You can visit the Schaeffer web site and place your order there. Hope this helps.Bill wrote: On my old boat (a Bristol 27) I had a cleat amidships on both port and starboard decks. This was extremely useful when docking especially when it was breezin-up and I was solo. One line held the boat while the fore and aft lines were secured. My CD28, does not seem to have these cleats. Can anyone with center cleats on a 28 advise me on where they should be (with backing plates), and how big the cleats should be? Thanks. Bill.
rphscott@aol.com
-
Bill Wyatt
Re: CLEAT ADVICE NEEDED
I just ordered a pair of these cleats for my CD33 "QWYATTLY". From looking at a diagram of the toe/rub rail and hull/deck joint, I'm concerned about enough room to run nuts up on the bolts, let alone a backing plate. Can you give me any advice on installing these that might make it go easier. The woodworking part is no problem but I don't want to cut up the toerail and find I can't run the bolts.
Thanks
Bill Wyatt
wwyatt1001@aol.com
Thanks
Bill Wyatt
wwyatt1001@aol.com