The ITT Par Electric Head, Model 37010-1000, in my 1990 Cape Dory 30 poweryacht is not operating properly. Any help in answering the following two questions would be appreciated. (The two are occurring simultaneously, but may or may not be related.)
1) The bowl fills with water faster than it drains. The only way to drain the bowl is to shut off the raw water and then activate the pump. Even so, the bowl is slow to empty - even if it is just water and no solids. Does this indicate the pump needs to be rebuilt?
2) The holding tank can not be pumped out from the deck fitting using a suitable pump out device. The tank begins to empty and then stops. There is a strong vaccuum after the pump out hose is removed. I checked the vent line and all is clear. Any idea what the problem could be?
Thanks
emerenda@nassau.cv.net
ITT Par Electric Head Questions (Help!)
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Walt Bilofsky
Re: ITT Par Electric Head Questions (Help!)
Joe -
A couple of things come to mind. First, my head has always liked to fill up with a lot of water - to the extent that if I know that lots of water in the bowl is unlikely to be needed, I will shut the seacock most of the way to restrict intake.
Second, although you checked the vent line, it sure sounds like the vent may be plugged, maybe within the tank. If pressure built up in the tank, the head might have trouble pumping into it (but if there's much air in the tank, it would have to compress a heck of a lot first, so maybe that's not so likely an explanation for the failure to flush problem). Presumably you have a macerator head? So there are not large solid objects in the holding tank and lines to block things up?
Maybe the thing to do is to start isolating the problem(s). Provide alternate venting to the holding tank by disconnecting the outflow hose at the head or opening an inspection port in the top of the holding tank, and see if the tank will pump out. Disconnect the head outflow hose at the holding tank and see if the head will pump through it normally.
This is not relevant to your problem, but I'll mention that my CD 30 powerboat has a macerator teed off the holding tank pumpout line in order to pump overboard (only at sea, where legal, of course). Pumping out was difficult for me for the opposite reason that you had - I was sucking a lot of air. I put a seacock valve on the macerator to eliminate the air path back through it and that got rid of the air. It surprised me to find this poor design in the Cape Dory - the only other boat I know of that had it was the one I had before - a Bayliner.
Regards,
Walt Bilofsky
bilofsky@toolworks.com
A couple of things come to mind. First, my head has always liked to fill up with a lot of water - to the extent that if I know that lots of water in the bowl is unlikely to be needed, I will shut the seacock most of the way to restrict intake.
Second, although you checked the vent line, it sure sounds like the vent may be plugged, maybe within the tank. If pressure built up in the tank, the head might have trouble pumping into it (but if there's much air in the tank, it would have to compress a heck of a lot first, so maybe that's not so likely an explanation for the failure to flush problem). Presumably you have a macerator head? So there are not large solid objects in the holding tank and lines to block things up?
Maybe the thing to do is to start isolating the problem(s). Provide alternate venting to the holding tank by disconnecting the outflow hose at the head or opening an inspection port in the top of the holding tank, and see if the tank will pump out. Disconnect the head outflow hose at the holding tank and see if the head will pump through it normally.
This is not relevant to your problem, but I'll mention that my CD 30 powerboat has a macerator teed off the holding tank pumpout line in order to pump overboard (only at sea, where legal, of course). Pumping out was difficult for me for the opposite reason that you had - I was sucking a lot of air. I put a seacock valve on the macerator to eliminate the air path back through it and that got rid of the air. It surprised me to find this poor design in the Cape Dory - the only other boat I know of that had it was the one I had before - a Bayliner.
Regards,
Walt Bilofsky
Joe Merenda wrote: The ITT Par Electric Head, Model 37010-1000, in my 1990 Cape Dory 30 poweryacht is not operating properly. Any help in answering the following two questions would be appreciated. (The two are occurring simultaneously, but may or may not be related.)
1) The bowl fills with water faster than it drains. The only way to drain the bowl is to shut off the raw water and then activate the pump. Even so, the bowl is slow to empty - even if it is just water and no solids. Does this indicate the pump needs to be rebuilt?
2) The holding tank can not be pumped out from the deck fitting using a suitable pump out device. The tank begins to empty and then stops. There is a strong vaccuum after the pump out hose is removed. I checked the vent line and all is clear. Any idea what the problem could be?
Thanks
bilofsky@toolworks.com
-
Joe Merenda
Re: ITT Par Electric Head Questions (Help!)
Walt,
Thanks for the reply. I've found some useful information that I'll share in case your ever in a similiar situation. I called technical support at ITT/PAR and they told me that if raw water is entering the head (which it was) then the problem was certainly due to some type of blockage in the discharge or vent lines. They mentioned that while the raw water impeller may need replacement from time to time, the centrifugal type dischharge impeller almost never goes. This is a good way to eliminate the head and pump from the equation. What I ended up doing was systematically disconnecting and flushing various parts of the system. I started by blowing out the vent line and then the pumpout line with high pressure water, as well as the fittings into the holding tank. Next, I disconnected the waste discharge line at the oulet side of the vented loop (this is located in the storage area under the sink in the head) and let the head pump raw water into a five gallon bucket. After about 15 gallons, the discharge water was clear. Next, I disconnected the other end of the waste waste line from the holding tank and directed it into a five gallon bucket. I then flushed the line by forcing high pressure water into the vented loop and letting it discharge into the bucket. Again, after about 15 gallons, the discharge was clear. I put everything back together and it seems to be working, but the real test will be when my "girls" come aboard for an overnighter!
As you mentioned, the head does fill with alot of water when flushed. I'll try your idea of partially closing the seacock to restrict the flow. With regard to the overboard discharge, I've used mine once and it worked fine. The next time I tried it, nothing would discharge. I have yet to trouble shoot it but its not high on my priority list as its rarely used.
Thanks again for the response and happy boating.
Joe Merenda
emerenda@nassau.cv.net
Thanks for the reply. I've found some useful information that I'll share in case your ever in a similiar situation. I called technical support at ITT/PAR and they told me that if raw water is entering the head (which it was) then the problem was certainly due to some type of blockage in the discharge or vent lines. They mentioned that while the raw water impeller may need replacement from time to time, the centrifugal type dischharge impeller almost never goes. This is a good way to eliminate the head and pump from the equation. What I ended up doing was systematically disconnecting and flushing various parts of the system. I started by blowing out the vent line and then the pumpout line with high pressure water, as well as the fittings into the holding tank. Next, I disconnected the waste discharge line at the oulet side of the vented loop (this is located in the storage area under the sink in the head) and let the head pump raw water into a five gallon bucket. After about 15 gallons, the discharge water was clear. Next, I disconnected the other end of the waste waste line from the holding tank and directed it into a five gallon bucket. I then flushed the line by forcing high pressure water into the vented loop and letting it discharge into the bucket. Again, after about 15 gallons, the discharge was clear. I put everything back together and it seems to be working, but the real test will be when my "girls" come aboard for an overnighter!
As you mentioned, the head does fill with alot of water when flushed. I'll try your idea of partially closing the seacock to restrict the flow. With regard to the overboard discharge, I've used mine once and it worked fine. The next time I tried it, nothing would discharge. I have yet to trouble shoot it but its not high on my priority list as its rarely used.
Thanks again for the response and happy boating.
Joe Merenda
Walt Bilofsky wrote: Joe -
A couple of things come to mind. First, my head has always liked to fill up with a lot of water - to the extent that if I know that lots of water in the bowl is unlikely to be needed, I will shut the seacock most of the way to restrict intake.
Second, although you checked the vent line, it sure sounds like the vent may be plugged, maybe within the tank. If pressure built up in the tank, the head might have trouble pumping into it (but if there's much air in the tank, it would have to compress a heck of a lot first, so maybe that's not so likely an explanation for the failure to flush problem). Presumably you have a macerator head? So there are not large solid objects in the holding tank and lines to block things up?
Maybe the thing to do is to start isolating the problem(s). Provide alternate venting to the holding tank by disconnecting the outflow hose at the head or opening an inspection port in the top of the holding tank, and see if the tank will pump out. Disconnect the head outflow hose at the holding tank and see if the head will pump through it normally.
This is not relevant to your problem, but I'll mention that my CD 30 powerboat has a macerator teed off the holding tank pumpout line in order to pump overboard (only at sea, where legal, of course). Pumping out was difficult for me for the opposite reason that you had - I was sucking a lot of air. I put a seacock valve on the macerator to eliminate the air path back through it and that got rid of the air. It surprised me to find this poor design in the Cape Dory - the only other boat I know of that had it was the one I had before - a Bayliner.
Regards,
Walt Bilofsky
Joe Merenda wrote: The ITT Par Electric Head, Model 37010-1000, in my 1990 Cape Dory 30 poweryacht is not operating properly. Any help in answering the following two questions would be appreciated. (The two are occurring simultaneously, but may or may not be related.)
1) The bowl fills with water faster than it drains. The only way to drain the bowl is to shut off the raw water and then activate the pump. Even so, the bowl is slow to empty - even if it is just water and no solids. Does this indicate the pump needs to be rebuilt?
2) The holding tank can not be pumped out from the deck fitting using a suitable pump out device. The tank begins to empty and then stops. There is a strong vaccuum after the pump out hose is removed. I checked the vent line and all is clear. Any idea what the problem could be?
Thanks
emerenda@nassau.cv.net