Teak steps --Refinishing advice please

[Bill]

The treads and frame of my teak companionway ladder really need to be refinished. They are a serious distraction when entering the opening. Went into the archives for info but have basic questions: Do I sand first with random orbit and detail sander, or
should I clean it first (with what?)? Should I then oil or varnish?
Boy, any help will be appreciated from those who have already done this. Thanks. First time major teak-refinisher. Bill



meislandbill@yahoo.com

[Bob Ohler]

Bill,
I would sand the steps first, taking the time to "do it right." Get into the corners, the grooves, etc., making sure to get all of the old finish off, and generally cleaning up the teak at the same time. I would use the orbital and detail sanders along with some hand sanding to do a really thorough job. I doubt that additional teak cleaners would be necessary, however, if you still see black deep in the grain of the teak, you may want to use a cleaner to get the black out. After using many cleaners, a follow-up with the fine sandpaper may be required. The initial sanding, using progessively finer and finer grades of sandpaper will probably eliminate the need for teak cleaners though.

Under no circumstances would I apply varnish to the treads. When wet,(or wet shoes are worn) they would be extremely slippery. Rather, I would oil the steps either with straight lemon oil, or my "cocktail" of equal parts lemon oil, raw linseed oil and mineral spirits. Experiment on the underside of two of the treads and see which you prefer.

Good luck! Bob O.

The treads and frame of my teak companionway ladder really need to be refinished. They are a serious distraction when entering the opening. Went into the archives for info but have basic questions: Do I sand first with random orbit and detail sander, or
should I clean it first (with what?)? Should I then oil or varnish?
Boy, any help will be appreciated from those who have already done this. Thanks. First time major teak-refinisher. Bill

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Bill,

I did this same thing on the companion way treads on Hanalei shortly after we bought her. I first removed the treads from the stainless ladder, didn't want the sander scoring up the stianless. Trouble is, the bolts are covered with teak bungs. If you are LUCKY, you may be able to get the nuts off by lightly prying under the nuts or treads with a putty knife as you unscrew the nuts. Short of that, you will have to pull the bungs to get a grip on the bolts, and replace them after refinishing. IF you can remove the nuts, when refinishing, freeze the bolts in place in the treads by injecting a little 5 minute epoxy into the bolt hole. This should provide enough resistance so that you can retighten the nuts when you are done. I would use Armada satin finish, NOT varnish, but you really can use anything you want. Oh, I was assuming you had a combination tubular stainless and wooden tread ladder, is this true? ...IMHO....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[skipper]

I wouldn't use a orbital sander. . .a band type sander, which can sand along the same direction of the teak's grain should work better. The orbital sander may put swirl marks in the teak (something the former owner of my boat did . . ). If you are taking off old varnish, I would start with 60 or 80 grit sand paper and then finish with 180 or 220 grit. If your steps aren't varnished, you don't need to use 60 or 80 grit sand paper. You can start with a finer paper (perhaps 120).I would also consider varnishing the steps. Varnish lasts a lot longer inside the boat than outside. I've had my boat for over 6 years now and the varnished steps still look great. One draw back is that they can be slippery if you aren't wearing boat shoes. I haven't fallen yet (knock on wood!).


Bill,

I would sand the steps first, taking the time to "do it right." Get into the corners, the grooves, etc., making sure to get all of the old finish off, and generally cleaning up the teak at the same time. I would use the orbital and detail sanders along with some hand sanding to do a really thorough job. I doubt that additional teak cleaners would be necessary, however, if you still see black deep in the grain of the teak, you may want to use a cleaner to get the black out. After using many cleaners, a follow-up with the fine sandpaper may be required. The initial sanding, using progessively finer and finer grades of sandpaper will probably eliminate the need for teak cleaners though.

Under no circumstances would I apply varnish to the treads. When wet,(or wet shoes are worn) they would be extremely slippery. Rather, I would oil the steps either with straight lemon oil, or my "cocktail" of equal parts lemon oil, raw linseed oil and mineral spirits. Experiment on the underside of two of the treads and see which you prefer.

Good luck! Bob O.

The treads and frame of my teak companionway ladder really need to be refinished. They are a serious distraction when entering the opening. Went into the archives for info but have basic questions: Do I sand first with random orbit and detail sander, or
should I clean it first (with what?)? Should I then oil or varnish?
Boy, any help will be appreciated from those who have already done this. Thanks. First time major teak-refinisher. Bill

spyronica@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

Belt sanders have no place on a boat, usually. They remove far too much wood, leave evidence of their passing thru, and in general are like going fishing with dynamite. They are meant to take off a lot of material fast! An experienced eye can tell that one has been used..even after finish sanding and varnishing. That is how bad they are.

Use an Orbital Sander..Skip, an Orbital Sander is not a Circular sander or grinder. An Orbital Sander has a random orbit motion that will not cause swirls since it does not go in a contiguous circle, but rather combines a random back and forth motion with a random side to side motion then randomly rotates the abrasive a little and continues.

Believe me, you will not see any 'swirl' marks.

Circular sanders of old however would leave a groove around their work, if left in place for long. These sanders did nothing more than rotate the disc. This is what your Former Owner used no doubt.
Buy an Orbital sander and use it on your teak..you will love it!!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lake Superior~~~

I wouldn't use a orbital sander. . .a band type sander, which can sand along the same direction of the teak's grain should work better. The orbital sander may put swirl marks in the teak (something the former owner of my boat did . . ). If you are taking off old varnish, I would start with 60 or 80 grit sand paper and then finish with 180 or 220 grit. If your steps aren't varnished, you don't need to use 60 or 80 grit sand paper. You can start with a finer paper (perhaps 120).I would also consider varnishing the steps. Varnish lasts a lot longer inside the boat than outside. I've had my boat for over 6 years now and the varnished steps still look great. One draw back is that they can be slippery if you aren't wearing boat shoes. I haven't fallen yet (knock on wood!).


Bill,

I would sand the steps first, taking the time to "do it right." Get into the corners, the grooves, etc., making sure to get all of the old finish off, and generally cleaning up the teak at the same time. I would use the orbital and detail sanders along with some hand sanding to do a really thorough job. I doubt that additional teak cleaners would be necessary, however, if you still see black deep in the grain of the teak, you may want to use a cleaner to get the black out. After using many cleaners, a follow-up with the fine sandpaper may be required. The initial sanding, using progessively finer and finer grades of sandpaper will probably eliminate the need for teak cleaners though.

Under no circumstances would I apply varnish to the treads. When wet,(or wet shoes are worn) they would be extremely slippery. Rather, I would oil the steps either with straight lemon oil, or my "cocktail" of equal parts lemon oil, raw linseed oil and mineral spirits. Experiment on the underside of two of the treads and see which you prefer.

Good luck! Bob O.

The treads and frame of my teak companionway ladder really need to be refinished. They are a serious distraction when entering the opening. Went into the archives for info but have basic questions: Do I sand first with random orbit and detail sander, or
should I clean it first (with what?)? Should I then oil or varnish?
Boy, any help will be appreciated from those who have already done this. Thanks. First time major teak-refinisher. Bill

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Belt sanders have no place on a boat, usually. They remove far too much wood, leave evidence of their passing thru, and in general are like going fishing with dynamite. They are meant to take off a lot of material fast! An experienced eye can tell that one has been used..even after finish sanding and varnishing. That is how bad they are.

Use an Orbital Sander..Skip, an Orbital Sander is not a Circular sander or grinder. An Orbital Sander has a random orbit motion that will not cause swirls since it does not go in a contiguous circle, but rather combines a random back and forth motion with a random side to side motion then randomly rotates the abrasive a little and continues.

Believe me, you will not see any 'swirl' marks.

Circular sanders of old however would leave a groove around their work, if left in place for long. These sanders did nothing more than rotate the disc. This is what your Former Owner used no doubt.
Buy an Orbital sander and use it on your teak..you will love it!!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lake Superior~~~

I wouldn't use a orbital sander. . .a band type sander, which can sand along the same direction of the teak's grain should work better. The orbital sander may put swirl marks in the teak (something the former owner of my boat did . . ). If you are taking off old varnish, I would start with 60 or 80 grit sand paper and then finish with 180 or 220 grit. If your steps aren't varnished, you don't need to use 60 or 80 grit sand paper. You can start with a finer paper (perhaps 120).I would also consider varnishing the steps. Varnish lasts a lot longer inside the boat than outside. I've had my boat for over 6 years now and the varnished steps still look great. One draw back is that they can be slippery if you aren't wearing boat shoes. I haven't fallen yet (knock on wood!).


Bill,

I would sand the steps first, taking the time to "do it right." Get into the corners, the grooves, etc., making sure to get all of the old finish off, and generally cleaning up the teak at the same time. I would use the orbital and detail sanders along with some hand sanding to do a really thorough job. I doubt that additional teak cleaners would be necessary, however, if you still see black deep in the grain of the teak, you may want to use a cleaner to get the black out. After using many cleaners, a follow-up with the fine sandpaper may be required. The initial sanding, using progessively finer and finer grades of sandpaper will probably eliminate the need for teak cleaners though.

Under no circumstances would I apply varnish to the treads. When wet,(or wet shoes are worn) they would be extremely slippery. Rather, I would oil the steps either with straight lemon oil, or my "cocktail" of equal parts lemon oil, raw linseed oil and mineral spirits. Experiment on the underside of two of the treads and see which you prefer.

Good luck! Bob O.

Larry, it's not my intent to be argumentative here but I would like to point out that belt sanders are routinely in use in professional yards and in boat manufacturing facilities. I can attest to this because I've used them in a couple different boat building plants on a regular basis and they are used routinely in yards. They are a very valuable tool from an efficiency point of view in a production enviroment such as a production line of boats. I can assure you that we used them all the time, additionally we used rotating sanders (grinders with sanding heads), orbitals, air Da's, and electrical random orbitals as well. There is a place for all these tools in marine work. Each and every one of them can cause damages if placed in the wrong hands and used incorrectly.

Orbital sanders (different than *random orbital sanders*) can easily cause swirls and scratching if used improperly such as starting and stopping off the wood piece. These sanders should only be started and stopped while they are in contact with wood. They can also cause defacing by the operator being to aggressive and using too much force to remove material quickly. Random orbital sanders are a better tool but still need to be used in the same way. They are all strictly finishing sanders not intended for significant material removal. Coarser grit media deface easier and quicker than say 150 and higher grits. No-fill grits will also deface easier than regular flint grit papers.

A belt sander can produce a beautiful result if placed in the right hands and also achieve quick results such as what is necessary in boat production. Can you imagine sanding fair a teak deck with an orbital sander? What about a teak hatch, wood mast or glued up grate or sprit platform? The list goes on and on where a belt sander is employed. There are multiple uses for a belt sander in final woodwork in boat construction and finishing. Granted it isn't a final finish before top coating with brightfinish but can come very close if used properly. It certainly saves an enormous amount of time. A quick final finish sanding by hand or with a random orbital will complete a job in a timely efficient manner rendering high quality results.

A belt sander and random orbital sander are both very appropriate tools in marine woodworking.

[Chris Scheck]

Larry -

I have an orbital sander that's a little TOO random. It's a big Milwaukee that takes a half a sheet of paper at a time. I'd say the motor is probably, oh, 3 or 4 horsepower at least. Sometimes when I switch it on it just sits right where I started and sands just fine. Other times it decides it doesn't like where I'm sanding and heads straight for the edge of the board and I have to pull it back with both hands. It's like trying to hold on to a runaway garden tiller. I feel like someone else is controlling it. What gives?



cscheck@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

Hi John,

Larry, it's not my intent to be argumentative here but I would like to point out that belt sanders are routinely in use in professional yards and in boat manufacturing facilities.

True..in the manufacturing process John. Once built, there is hardly an area that is large enough to fit the typical belt sander!
Most work that we are interested in here, are things like the companionway steps, or hatchboards. Would you really take a belt sander to your drop boards? I bet not. That is what I am talking about.

I can attest to this because I've used them in a couple different boat building plants on a regular basis and they are used routinely in yards. They are a very valuable tool from an efficiency point of view in a production enviroment such as a production line of boats. I can assure you that we used them all the time, additionally we used rotating sanders (grinders with sanding heads), orbitals, air Da's, and electrical random orbitals as well. There is a place for all these tools in marine work.

Yup...again in manufacturing or rebuilding a boat, you would need all those tools, and I am sure you have plenty of experience there. My experience lies in working with wood for furniture or cabinetry, where it is understood that some people are sensitive to the hash marks that a belt sander leaves. So usually furniture and wood work that will need to be seen close up would need to have a higher class of sanding done so that a good appearance is maintained. This is impossible with a belt sander, certainly. It is a random orbit sanders job usually.

Each and every one of them can cause damages if placed in the wrong hands and used incorrectly.

For certain this is true..;^)

Orbital sanders (different than *random orbital sanders*) can easily cause swirls and scratching if used improperly such as starting and stopping off the wood piece. These sanders should only be started and stopped while they are in contact with wood. They can also cause defacing by the operator being to aggressive and using too much force to remove material quickly. Random orbital sanders are a better tool but still need to be used in the same way. They are all strictly finishing sanders not intended for significant material removal.

Again, I have no disagreement with that statement. But John, what we are talking about is doing repair and maintenance to the wood finish on our beautiful Cape Dory's. This takes finesse, not the ham fisted gouging that a belt sander would provide your finish. It has no place on a boat during the regular maintenance duties one experiences in the spring. They are reserved for removing lots of material or leveling jobs on a warped wood boats bottom for instance. to me, that is the last thing I would be wanting to do..removing lots of teak.
Can you picture someone going to their handholds with a belt sander and 60 grit paper? No of course not, that guy will be smart no doubt, and using a random orbit sander with maybe 180 in it.

Coarser grit media deface easier and quicker than say 150 and higher grits. No-fill grits will also deface easier than regular flint grit papers.

A belt sander can produce a beautiful result if placed in the right hands and also achieve quick results such as what is necessary in boat production. Can you imagine sanding fair a teak deck with an orbital sander? What about a teak hatch, wood mast or glued up grate or sprit platform? The list goes on and on where a belt sander is employed. There are multiple uses for a belt sander in final woodwork in boat construction and finishing. Granted it isn't a final finish before top coating with brightfinish but can come very close if used properly. It certainly saves an enormous amount of time. A quick final finish sanding by hand or with a random orbital will complete a job in a timely efficient manner rendering high quality results.

A belt sander and random orbital sander are both very appropriate tools in marine woodworking.

Yup..again I think you are confusing your boat building experiences with regular spring maintenance, which this question was about, and my answer was directed towards. I thought that everyone understood what was being talked about..maintenance and refinishing of teak work..not crafting whole boats and decks. Jessh, give me some credit dude.

To that example of a companionway step refinishing, I suggest sanding it lightly (with the proverbial random orbital sander) using 120 then 220. Clean off with turpentine to see if the wood matches, with no areas needing bleaching to lighten. Tack rag it carefully. Then finish in Cetol or Armada base material. Cetol calls it 'Marine', and it will be fine when damp feet hit it, as it has a grip to it. Don't varnish or use a gloss finish, as that would be pretty slick I think. Maybe a satin finish would work ok..sure would look nice. That's it. Over and out.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior



demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Larry -

I have an orbital sander that's a little TOO random. It's a big Milwaukee that takes a half a sheet of paper at a time. I'd say the motor is probably, oh, 3 or 4 horsepower at least. Sometimes when I switch it on it just sits right where I started and sands just fine. Other times it decides it doesn't like where I'm sanding and heads straight for the edge of the board and I have to pull it back with both hands. It's like trying to hold on to a runaway garden tiller. I feel like someone else is controlling it. What gives?

That's typical of an *orbital*. It is not unique to your Milwaukee. They need to be guided and will have a tendency to walk, especially with coarser grits. this problems are far less with a *random orbital* unit but still they have a tendency to wander but to a much lesser degree due to the *random* action.

The DeWalts are especially good random orbital sanders. They have the fastest material removal. The variable speed version is especially nice as the wandering can really be controlled by speed settings.

Don't toss your Milwaukee, that's an excellent sander and certainly has it's place, it is an aggressive sander. It's just different than a random orbital design which is the best for the final finish work step.

[John R.]

Hi John,

Larry, it's not my intent to be argumentative here but I would like to point out that belt sanders are routinely in use in professional yards and in boat manufacturing facilities.

True..in the manufacturing process John. Once built, there is hardly an area that is large enough to fit the typical belt sander!
Most work that we are interested in here, are things like the companionway steps, or hatchboards. Would you really take a belt sander to your drop boards? I bet not. That is what I am talking about.

I can attest to this because I've used them in a couple different boat building plants on a regular basis and they are used routinely in yards. They are a very valuable tool from an efficiency point of view in a production enviroment such as a production line of boats. I can assure you that we used them all the time, additionally we used rotating sanders (grinders with sanding heads), orbitals, air Da's, and electrical random orbitals as well. There is a place for all these tools in marine work.

Yup...again in manufacturing or rebuilding a boat, you would need all those tools, and I am sure you have plenty of experience there. My experience lies in working with wood for furniture or cabinetry, where it is understood that some people are sensitive to the hash marks that a belt sander leaves. So usually furniture and wood work that will need to be seen close up would need to have a higher class of sanding done so that a good appearance is maintained. This is impossible with a belt sander, certainly. It is a random orbit sanders job usually.

Each and every one of them can cause damages if placed in the wrong hands and used incorrectly.

For certain this is true..;^)

Orbital sanders (different than *random orbital sanders*) can easily cause swirls and scratching if used improperly such as starting and stopping off the wood piece. These sanders should only be started and stopped while they are in contact with wood. They can also cause defacing by the operator being to aggressive and using too much force to remove material quickly. Random orbital sanders are a better tool but still need to be used in the same way. They are all strictly finishing sanders not intended for significant material removal.

Again, I have no disagreement with that statement. But John, what we are talking about is doing repair and maintenance to the wood finish on our beautiful Cape Dory's. This takes finesse, not the ham fisted gouging that a belt sander would provide your finish. It has no place on a boat during the regular maintenance duties one experiences in the spring. They are reserved for removing lots of material or leveling jobs on a warped wood boats bottom for instance. to me, that is the last thing I would be wanting to do..removing lots of teak.
Can you picture someone going to their handholds with a belt sander and 60 grit paper? No of course not, that guy will be smart no doubt, and using a random orbit sander with maybe 180 in it.

Coarser grit media deface easier and quicker than say 150 and higher grits. No-fill grits will also deface easier than regular flint grit papers.

A belt sander can produce a beautiful result if placed in the right hands and also achieve quick results such as what is necessary in boat production. Can you imagine sanding fair a teak deck with an orbital sander? What about a teak hatch, wood mast or glued up grate or sprit platform? The list goes on and on where a belt sander is employed. There are multiple uses for a belt sander in final woodwork in boat construction and finishing. Granted it isn't a final finish before top coating with brightfinish but can come very close if used properly. It certainly saves an enormous amount of time. A quick final finish sanding by hand or with a random orbital will complete a job in a timely efficient manner rendering high quality results.

A belt sander and random orbital sander are both very appropriate tools in marine woodworking.

Yup..again I think you are confusing your boat building experiences with regular spring maintenance, which this question was about, and my answer was directed towards. I thought that everyone understood what was being talked about..maintenance and refinishing of teak work..not crafting whole boats and decks. Jessh, give me some credit dude.

To that example of a companionway step refinishing, I suggest sanding it lightly (with the proverbial random orbital sander) using 120 then 220. Clean off with turpentine to see if the wood matches, with no areas needing bleaching to lighten. Tack rag it carefully. Then finish in Cetol or Armada base material. Cetol calls it 'Marine', and it will be fine when damp feet hit it, as it has a grip to it. Don't varnish or use a gloss finish, as that would be pretty slick I think. Maybe a satin finish would work ok..sure would look nice. That's it. Over and out.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hey, no problem Larry........Your original post wasn't so clear, sorry I misinterpreted your remarks. Of coarse no one in their right mind would apply a belt sander to handrails unless they were absolutely clueless. However I don't care if a boat is a Cape Dory or an old beater tug if a piece of wood (teak, oak, mahogany or whatever) is weathered to a great degree or simply in a poor state of maintenance then there are plenty of situations where that "dynamite" belt sander can be efficiently and effectively applied. God knows I've done it plenty of times, more than I care to count. I totally agree with you that it is not to be considered a final finish result which I thought I previously pointed out. It is simply a means of utilizing an *efficient* technique to acheive an ultimately desired result with the least amount of work and time. I can assure you there are plenty of boats here in Florida where the application of a belt sander to hatch boards is the only smart means of restoring them back to their original glory, final sanding by RO or by hand of course. The alternative would be to run them through a planer or sit there for a couple days with a RO sander which would be an absurd waste of time. I was simply trying to point out that a belt sander is not necessarily to be considered poison or "dynamite" to a boat in a maintenance or even construction scheme of things. No, I'm not confusing construction with maintenance, there are simply many degrees of maintenance, such as light or restorative. Your latest remarks are more clear on your point. I'm sure wood doesn't suffer the ravages up in Superior like it does here in Florida and I know you would see the "dynamite" employed here more than you would imagine. Believe me when I say the results when finished (including the RO) will rival fine woodwork finishes. I have been witness to some absolutely elegant yachts down here where bulwark caps, decks, steps of all types, transom platforms, deck boxes, skylights, and all sorts of different trim, even trail boards have all been refinished using belt sanders to save enormous amounts of time, after their final finish with a orbital,RO or DA they look perfect and it was quick to boot. Hey Lar, try it you may like it.

Like I originally said it was not my intent to be argumentative on your point, just to demonstrate a different viewpoint on the use of the tool. Sorry if you felt offended.

[Larry DeMers]

John,

NO problem at all. I just didn't know where you were coming from with your comments. The question was about refinishing a teak companionway step, with a suggestion to use a belt sander on it. Having just finished doing this last year (in fact I had to scarf my teak step as it broke in half..someone (aheemm) had put it down on top of the tip of a screwdriver, then applied their considerable weight to that specific point, making the wood crack fully. I used a biscuit joiner at 4 locations and epoxied the two halves back together, using a palm sander (RO) to remove the excess epoxy, and then used a brown dry marker to blend in the epoxy line in the wood..then refinished the whole shebang. I can't see that fracture line now..so it went back together well).
So my answer was for that purpose only..it was intended not to be a universal answer. ..;^)

I can remember when I was a kid, and my grandpa had to refinish his wood 18ft. row boat. The thing must have weighed 300 lbs, but he and I rolled it from the lake to the backyard on round logs, where he went to it with a belt sander. The wood planks were warped a little, but the sander took it all off just great. I watched him use finer and finer grades of abrasives, learning about sanding from him. We then painted the bottom white, and added some fancy trim on the hull sides, and a few weeks later, I was out experimenting with the 5hp Scott-Atwater outboard, and enjoying the water. I was about 10 then. But I will never forget his warning aobut the use of a belt sander and how it can take your skin off if you get careless..and how it can mark the wood deeply if done too forcibly. memories..I guy can get lost in them!

Cheerio,

Larry

Hi John,

Larry, it's not my intent to be argumentative here but I would like to point out that belt sanders are routinely in use in professional yards and in boat manufacturing facilities.

True..in the manufacturing process John. Once built, there is hardly an area that is large enough to fit the typical belt sander!
Most work that we are interested in here, are things like the companionway steps, or hatchboards. Would you really take a belt sander to your drop boards? I bet not. That is what I am talking about.

I can attest to this because I've used them in a couple different boat building plants on a regular basis and they are used routinely in yards. They are a very valuable tool from an efficiency point of view in a production enviroment such as a production line of boats. I can assure you that we used them all the time, additionally we used rotating sanders (grinders with sanding heads), orbitals, air Da's, and electrical random orbitals as well. There is a place for all these tools in marine work.

Yup...again in manufacturing or rebuilding a boat, you would need all those tools, and I am sure you have plenty of experience there. My experience lies in working with wood for furniture or cabinetry, where it is understood that some people are sensitive to the hash marks that a belt sander leaves. So usually furniture and wood work that will need to be seen close up would need to have a higher class of sanding done so that a good appearance is maintained. This is impossible with a belt sander, certainly. It is a random orbit sanders job usually.

Each and every one of them can cause damages if placed in the wrong hands and used incorrectly.

For certain this is true..;^)

Orbital sanders (different than *random orbital sanders*) can easily cause swirls and scratching if used improperly such as starting and stopping off the wood piece. These sanders should only be started and stopped while they are in contact with wood. They can also cause defacing by the operator being to aggressive and using too much force to remove material quickly. Random orbital sanders are a better tool but still need to be used in the same way. They are all strictly finishing sanders not intended for significant material removal.

Again, I have no disagreement with that statement. But John, what we are talking about is doing repair and maintenance to the wood finish on our beautiful Cape Dory's. This takes finesse, not the ham fisted gouging that a belt sander would provide your finish. It has no place on a boat during the regular maintenance duties one experiences in the spring. They are reserved for removing lots of material or leveling jobs on a warped wood boats bottom for instance. to me, that is the last thing I would be wanting to do..removing lots of teak.
Can you picture someone going to their handholds with a belt sander and 60 grit paper? No of course not, that guy will be smart no doubt, and using a random orbit sander with maybe 180 in it.

Coarser grit media deface easier and quicker than say 150 and higher grits. No-fill grits will also deface easier than regular flint grit papers.

A belt sander can produce a beautiful result if placed in the right hands and also achieve quick results such as what is necessary in boat production. Can you imagine sanding fair a teak deck with an orbital sander? What about a teak hatch, wood mast or glued up grate or sprit platform? The list goes on and on where a belt sander is employed. There are multiple uses for a belt sander in final woodwork in boat construction and finishing. Granted it isn't a final finish before top coating with brightfinish but can come very close if used properly. It certainly saves an enormous amount of time. A quick final finish sanding by hand or with a random orbital will complete a job in a timely efficient manner rendering high quality results.

A belt sander and random orbital sander are both very appropriate tools in marine woodworking.

Yup..again I think you are confusing your boat building experiences with regular spring maintenance, which this question was about, and my answer was directed towards. I thought that everyone understood what was being talked about..maintenance and refinishing of teak work..not crafting whole boats and decks. Jessh, give me some credit dude.

To that example of a companionway step refinishing, I suggest sanding it lightly (with the proverbial random orbital sander) using 120 then 220. Clean off with turpentine to see if the wood matches, with no areas needing bleaching to lighten. Tack rag it carefully. Then finish in Cetol or Armada base material. Cetol calls it 'Marine', and it will be fine when damp feet hit it, as it has a grip to it. Don't varnish or use a gloss finish, as that would be pretty slick I think. Maybe a satin finish would work ok..sure would look nice. That's it. Over and out.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hey, no problem Larry........Your original post wasn't so clear, sorry I misinterpreted your remarks. Of coarse no one in their right mind would apply a belt sander to handrails unless they were absolutely clueless. However I don't care if a boat is a Cape Dory or an old beater tug if a piece of wood (teak, oak, mahogany or whatever) is weathered to a great degree or simply in a poor state of maintenance then there are plenty of situations where that "dynamite" belt sander can be efficiently and effectively applied. God knows I've done it plenty of times, more than I care to count. I totally agree with you that it is not to be considered a final finish result which I thought I previously pointed out. It is simply a means of utilizing an *efficient* technique to acheive an ultimately desired result with the least amount of work and time. I can assure you there are plenty of boats here in Florida where the application of a belt sander to hatch boards is the only smart means of restoring them back to their original glory, final sanding by RO or by hand of course. The alternative would be to run them through a planer or sit there for a couple days with a RO sander which would be an absurd waste of time. I was simply trying to point out that a belt sander is not necessarily to be considered poison or "dynamite" to a boat in a maintenance or even construction scheme of things. No, I'm not confusing construction with maintenance, there are simply many degrees of maintenance, such as light or restorative. Your latest remarks are more clear on your point. I'm sure wood doesn't suffer the ravages up in Superior like it does here in Florida and I know you would see the "dynamite" employed here more than you would imagine. Believe me when I say the results when finished (including the RO) will rival fine woodwork finishes. I have been witness to some absolutely elegant yachts down here where bulwark caps, decks, steps of all types, transom platforms, deck boxes, skylights, and all sorts of different trim, even trail boards have all been refinished using belt sanders to save enormous amounts of time, after their final finish with a orbital,RO or DA they look perfect and it was quick to boot. Hey Lar, try it you may like it.

Like I originally said it was not my intent to be argumentative on your point, just to demonstrate a different viewpoint on the use of the tool. Sorry if you felt offended.

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

I thought those memories of sanding and painting the rowboat might involve a thin plank somewhere - how disappointing.

Ken

John,

NO problem at all. I just didn't know where you were coming from with your comments. The question was about refinishing a teak companionway step, with a suggestion to use a belt sander on it. Having just finished doing this last year (in fact I had to scarf my teak step as it broke in half..someone (aheemm) had put it down on top of the tip of a screwdriver, then applied their considerable weight to that specific point, making the wood crack fully. I used a biscuit joiner at 4 locations and epoxied the two halves back together, using a palm sander (RO) to remove the excess epoxy, and then used a brown dry marker to blend in the epoxy line in the wood..then refinished the whole shebang. I can't see that fracture line now..so it went back together well).
So my answer was for that purpose only..it was intended not to be a universal answer. ..;^)

I can remember when I was a kid, and my grandpa had to refinish his wood 18ft. row boat. The thing must have weighed 300 lbs, but he and I rolled it from the lake to the backyard on round logs, where he went to it with a belt sander. The wood planks were warped a little, but the sander took it all off just great. I watched him use finer and finer grades of abrasives, learning about sanding from him. We then painted the bottom white, and added some fancy trim on the hull sides, and a few weeks later, I was out experimenting with the 5hp Scott-Atwater outboard, and enjoying the water. I was about 10 then. But I will never forget his warning aobut the use of a belt sander and how it can take your skin off if you get careless..and how it can mark the wood deeply if done too forcibly. memories..I guy can get lost in them!

Cheerio,

Larry

Hi John,

True..in the manufacturing process John. Once built, there is hardly an area that is large enough to fit the typical belt sander!
Most work that we are interested in here, are things like the companionway steps, or hatchboards. Would you really take a belt sander to your drop boards? I bet not. That is what I am talking about.
Yup...again in manufacturing or rebuilding a boat, you would need all those tools, and I am sure you have plenty of experience there. My experience lies in working with wood for furniture or cabinetry, where it is understood that some people are sensitive to the hash marks that a belt sander leaves. So usually furniture and wood work that will need to be seen close up would need to have a higher class of sanding done so that a good appearance is maintained. This is impossible with a belt sander, certainly. It is a random orbit sanders job usually.
For certain this is true..;^)

Again, I have no disagreement with that statement. But John, what we are talking about is doing repair and maintenance to the wood finish on our beautiful Cape Dory's. This takes finesse, not the ham fisted gouging that a belt sander would provide your finish. It has no place on a boat during the regular maintenance duties one experiences in the spring. They are reserved for removing lots of material or leveling jobs on a warped wood boats bottom for instance. to me, that is the last thing I would be wanting to do..removing lots of teak.
Can you picture someone going to their handholds with a belt sander and 60 grit paper? No of course not, that guy will be smart no doubt, and using a random orbit sander with maybe 180 in it.
Yup..again I think you are confusing your boat building experiences with regular spring maintenance, which this question was about, and my answer was directed towards. I thought that everyone understood what was being talked about..maintenance and refinishing of teak work..not crafting whole boats and decks. Jessh, give me some credit dude.

To that example of a companionway step refinishing, I suggest sanding it lightly (with the proverbial random orbital sander) using 120 then 220. Clean off with turpentine to see if the wood matches, with no areas needing bleaching to lighten. Tack rag it carefully. Then finish in Cetol or Armada base material. Cetol calls it 'Marine', and it will be fine when damp feet hit it, as it has a grip to it. Don't varnish or use a gloss finish, as that would be pretty slick I think. Maybe a satin finish would work ok..sure would look nice. That's it. Over and out.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

Hey, no problem Larry........Your original post wasn't so clear, sorry I misinterpreted your remarks. Of coarse no one in their right mind would apply a belt sander to handrails unless they were absolutely clueless. However I don't care if a boat is a Cape Dory or an old beater tug if a piece of wood (teak, oak, mahogany or whatever) is weathered to a great degree or simply in a poor state of maintenance then there are plenty of situations where that "dynamite" belt sander can be efficiently and effectively applied. God knows I've done it plenty of times, more than I care to count. I totally agree with you that it is not to be considered a final finish result which I thought I previously pointed out. It is simply a means of utilizing an *efficient* technique to acheive an ultimately desired result with the least amount of work and time. I can assure you there are plenty of boats here in Florida where the application of a belt sander to hatch boards is the only smart means of restoring them back to their original glory, final sanding by RO or by hand of course. The alternative would be to run them through a planer or sit there for a couple days with a RO sander which would be an absurd waste of time. I was simply trying to point out that a belt sander is not necessarily to be considered poison or "dynamite" to a boat in a maintenance or even construction scheme of things. No, I'm not confusing construction with maintenance, there are simply many degrees of maintenance, such as light or restorative. Your latest remarks are more clear on your point. I'm sure wood doesn't suffer the ravages up in Superior like it does here in Florida and I know you would see the "dynamite" employed here more than you would imagine. Believe me when I say the results when finished (including the RO) will rival fine woodwork finishes. I have been witness to some absolutely elegant yachts down here where bulwark caps, decks, steps of all types, transom platforms, deck boxes, skylights, and all sorts of different trim, even trail boards have all been refinished using belt sanders to save enormous amounts of time, after their final finish with a orbital,RO or DA they look perfect and it was quick to boot. Hey Lar, try it you may like it.

Like I originally said it was not my intent to be argumentative on your point, just to demonstrate a different viewpoint on the use of the tool. Sorry if you felt offended.

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[Larry DeMers]

Chris,

That sounds like an exercise machine! heh..well, I agree with John..go for a Random Orbit sander. I use a Mikita and love it. The high RPM's make quick work when using 60 grit on a rough edge, and when using 220, it will provide a nice swirl free finish.
We have had this one for 12 years now, and it is used heavily, as I also monkey around with cabinetry and finish carpentry at home...at least on a personal level (never been paid fer it yet anyway). Newest umpteen year project is new kitchen cabinets..top and bottom. Not as easy as it looks by the way.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry -

I have an orbital sander that's a little TOO random. It's a big Milwaukee that takes a half a sheet of paper at a time. I'd say the motor is probably, oh, 3 or 4 horsepower at least. Sometimes when I switch it on it just sits right where I started and sands just fine. Other times it decides it doesn't like where I'm sanding and heads straight for the edge of the board and I have to pull it back with both hands. It's like trying to hold on to a runaway garden tiller. I feel like someone else is controlling it. What gives?

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

Larry,

Did you ever get photos of your RollAway cradle, box, or whatever you call it? I'd love to see them.

Thanks,

Ken

Chris,

That sounds like an exercise machine! heh..well, I agree with John..go for a Random Orbit sander. I use a Mikita and love it. The high RPM's make quick work when using 60 grit on a rough edge, and when using 220, it will provide a nice swirl free finish.
We have had this one for 12 years now, and it is used heavily, as I also monkey around with cabinetry and finish carpentry at home...at least on a personal level (never been paid fer it yet anyway). Newest umpteen year project is new kitchen cabinets..top and bottom. Not as easy as it looks by the way.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry -

I have an orbital sander that's a little TOO random. It's a big Milwaukee that takes a half a sheet of paper at a time. I'd say the motor is probably, oh, 3 or 4 horsepower at least. Sometimes when I switch it on it just sits right where I started and sands just fine. Other times it decides it doesn't like where I'm sanding and heads straight for the edge of the board and I have to pull it back with both hands. It's like trying to hold on to a runaway garden tiller. I feel like someone else is controlling it. What gives?

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com