eric
cowboy?? - i try not to make assumptions about other people based on limited information so i will try not to make any assumptions about you
len
md.frel@nwh.org
Picking Overnight Anchorages
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Good Morning Warren,
Great Question! I like to see sailors doing their homework ahead of time, trying to avoid mistakes that are indeed avoidable.
As you guys know, our sailing is on Lake Superior, and we don't have ordinary tides to deal with (just Seiche tides). But the other concerns we have up here are the same as you guys have on the coasts, so maybe some of our experience is translatable to your situation.
The anchorages that we look for are the ones that protect us from that days prevailing winds, which have had time and distance to rile up the waves. The winds can stop entirely and quickly, but the waves have a lot of momentum, so they continue to roll on in. Generally, we also have land and sea breezes as you do too.
But as someone wisely pointed out, the landbreeze is coming across a short fetch, so there is little in the way of wave action from it.
Our biggest concern is night time Thunderstorms that generate enough moxy to waddle out on the lake at night, bucking the sinking cold air over the lake, generating a squall line. Sometimes these squalls have depth to them, and they last for several hours, causing us to weigh anchor at 2am, and spend 2 hours getting to a better protected anchorage (and of course as we reanchor, the winds die off, the stars come out, and the mythical harps play in the background indicating that all is now well..we could have stayed put after all) -but who knew?
So we usually pick an island (we have 22 of them in the Apostle Islands, with several hundreds of anchorage choices) that is of interest for it's shoreside trails, or the view of the open lake and the freighter traffic (about 5 miles away)as it makes it's upbound turn to Duluth, or because of the beach for swimming (yup, the water can be 75 deg. on shore). We usually set up a chart of the islands, and scope out an escape plan before retiring (this is so automatic now, when discussing where to anchor for the night,we just mention the anchorage and alternate anchorage in one sentence -ie: "Hey, let's go to Julian Bay tonight, we can use Presque' Isle Bay for the alternate".
So set up an alternate plan if it is possible to do. If not, then you have to provide protection from a 180 degree shift overnight, or be ready to deploy that protection should it be needed.
The Bahamian moor is a *very* good one to use in that situation. We can talk in detail off-line about anchoring with two anchors in the Bahamian mooring if you want. But it is essentially two anchors of equal ability, placed 180 degress from each other, connected at the center ****With A Swivel*** (critical). SQN would attach to the swivel via a short rode, long enough to drop the swivel below the keel considerably. This keeps the rodes from twisting and becoming a nitemare to untangle in the morning. With this mooring, you will have protection from offshore winds as well as whatever onshore winds you had. We have used this when T-Storms are predicted, as they usually reverse 180 deg. and blow like stink before passing. It's a tad more work, but very effective. The one caution is that if the winds turn out to be not aligned with your anchors, you may have to realign the axis of your anchoring system if the winds are strong..you do not want to be caught sideways to the winds and waves, as it increases the stress on the anchor rode many times, increasing the dragging potential.
More than likely, you will have a peaceful evening, that is enjoyable and memorable. Some of them will be more adventurous than others..but know what? I would not trade one single anchoring experience for a safe night at the dock..not one in 16,000 miles on Superior.
We anchor a lot during our season. If we average two nights a weekend, and we spend about 30 weekends aboard and on the water, then that gives us around 60 per year plus 3-4 weeks of vacation time too.
It is second nature now to anchor out, but it was not always that way. We have been in your position, and you have some neat experiences ahead of you.
Remember as Captain Ron said, "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen out there!" In other words, in order to have an experience, you have to present yourself to nature to have that experience. You cannot do that at the dock.
Take Pictures! -Enjoy your peace!
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
Great Question! I like to see sailors doing their homework ahead of time, trying to avoid mistakes that are indeed avoidable.
As you guys know, our sailing is on Lake Superior, and we don't have ordinary tides to deal with (just Seiche tides). But the other concerns we have up here are the same as you guys have on the coasts, so maybe some of our experience is translatable to your situation.
The anchorages that we look for are the ones that protect us from that days prevailing winds, which have had time and distance to rile up the waves. The winds can stop entirely and quickly, but the waves have a lot of momentum, so they continue to roll on in. Generally, we also have land and sea breezes as you do too.
But as someone wisely pointed out, the landbreeze is coming across a short fetch, so there is little in the way of wave action from it.
Our biggest concern is night time Thunderstorms that generate enough moxy to waddle out on the lake at night, bucking the sinking cold air over the lake, generating a squall line. Sometimes these squalls have depth to them, and they last for several hours, causing us to weigh anchor at 2am, and spend 2 hours getting to a better protected anchorage (and of course as we reanchor, the winds die off, the stars come out, and the mythical harps play in the background indicating that all is now well..we could have stayed put after all) -but who knew?
So we usually pick an island (we have 22 of them in the Apostle Islands, with several hundreds of anchorage choices) that is of interest for it's shoreside trails, or the view of the open lake and the freighter traffic (about 5 miles away)as it makes it's upbound turn to Duluth, or because of the beach for swimming (yup, the water can be 75 deg. on shore). We usually set up a chart of the islands, and scope out an escape plan before retiring (this is so automatic now, when discussing where to anchor for the night,we just mention the anchorage and alternate anchorage in one sentence -ie: "Hey, let's go to Julian Bay tonight, we can use Presque' Isle Bay for the alternate".
So set up an alternate plan if it is possible to do. If not, then you have to provide protection from a 180 degree shift overnight, or be ready to deploy that protection should it be needed.
The Bahamian moor is a *very* good one to use in that situation. We can talk in detail off-line about anchoring with two anchors in the Bahamian mooring if you want. But it is essentially two anchors of equal ability, placed 180 degress from each other, connected at the center ****With A Swivel*** (critical). SQN would attach to the swivel via a short rode, long enough to drop the swivel below the keel considerably. This keeps the rodes from twisting and becoming a nitemare to untangle in the morning. With this mooring, you will have protection from offshore winds as well as whatever onshore winds you had. We have used this when T-Storms are predicted, as they usually reverse 180 deg. and blow like stink before passing. It's a tad more work, but very effective. The one caution is that if the winds turn out to be not aligned with your anchors, you may have to realign the axis of your anchoring system if the winds are strong..you do not want to be caught sideways to the winds and waves, as it increases the stress on the anchor rode many times, increasing the dragging potential.
More than likely, you will have a peaceful evening, that is enjoyable and memorable. Some of them will be more adventurous than others..but know what? I would not trade one single anchoring experience for a safe night at the dock..not one in 16,000 miles on Superior.
We anchor a lot during our season. If we average two nights a weekend, and we spend about 30 weekends aboard and on the water, then that gives us around 60 per year plus 3-4 weeks of vacation time too.
It is second nature now to anchor out, but it was not always that way. We have been in your position, and you have some neat experiences ahead of you.
Remember as Captain Ron said, "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen out there!" In other words, in order to have an experience, you have to present yourself to nature to have that experience. You cannot do that at the dock.
Take Pictures! -Enjoy your peace!
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Lake Superior
Warren Kaplan wrote: I intend to anchor out for weekends this year so I've been doing some research into "picking anchorages". For the purpose of this question let's assume that the bottom is good and the anchor will hold. I've been looking at primarily wind patterns. In my area during the sailing season the wind primarily comes out of the southwest. Its a seabreeze and can get quite strong. So prudence would dictate that I anchor on the lee side of a land mass assuming that currents and tides are not monsterous considerations. After dark, when the land cools down and especially just before dawn, there is often a land breeze or off shore breeze which often can be quite strong. What was a good anchoring spot for the prevailing daylight seabreeze gets to be kinda bumpy at night. I have studied 24 hour wind directions and I see that it is not unusual, as a matter of fact its downright common for the wind to shift often and come from just about every direction through a 24 hour period of time. So the question comes down to this. In the REAL sailing world, how often do you actually find an anchorage that stays smooth for 24 hours as opposed to getting choppy or downright rough for some time during that 24 hour period? I'm not talking about an unexpected blast that comes in where you may have to weigh anchor and go to another spot. I guess I'm trying to find out how to pick that "perfect anchorage" that stays smooth just about all the time. I guess with few well known exceptions, which means crowds, there is no such thing and you have to be prepared for chop even in normal weather. Any advice would be welcome. If I'm going to convince my wife that weekend cruising can open up some new sailing worlds, I can't have her gettin' seasick in the middle of the night!
Thanks,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages -- Two Anchors?
Len,
I believe you are correct. Anchoring fore and aft is rarely done for just the reasoning you mention. It is not a safe way to do it, should the winds shift 90 degrees.
You are also right in that with a boat tied that way, it looks a little like a rodeo steer all trussed up, hence the cowboy reference I believe. I also avoid folks that do this, as they are now way out of sync with the other boats around them (as they continue to rotate on their hooks, while the trussed up boat sits still), making them in danger of being hit during the night.
Mathematically, the forces on the rode are enormously increased when the boat is subjected to wind from the beam and it is anchored fore and aft. I would avoid this except for in very special circumstances. Better to use the Bahamian moor.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
I believe you are correct. Anchoring fore and aft is rarely done for just the reasoning you mention. It is not a safe way to do it, should the winds shift 90 degrees.
You are also right in that with a boat tied that way, it looks a little like a rodeo steer all trussed up, hence the cowboy reference I believe. I also avoid folks that do this, as they are now way out of sync with the other boats around them (as they continue to rotate on their hooks, while the trussed up boat sits still), making them in danger of being hit during the night.
Mathematically, the forces on the rode are enormously increased when the boat is subjected to wind from the beam and it is anchored fore and aft. I would avoid this except for in very special circumstances. Better to use the Bahamian moor.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Eric wrote: I question the wisdom of an anchor off the bow and one off the stern. All that will do is force the boat to remain in one position, which may or may not be desireable. If the wind shifts 90 degrees you will be taking wind and waves abeam, which is no way to sleep and is not how anchors are designed to keep hold. maybe I'm missing something, but when I see a boat with an anchor off the stern I assume I'm looking at a cowboy and keep my distance.
The key, as noted before, is having plenty of weight in your anchor and chain, picking the right spot (the best tools for that are your eyes) and setting plenty of scope.
Please educate me if I'm wrong.
ew
Warren Kaplan wrote: I intend to anchor out for weekends this year so I've been doing some research into "picking anchorages". For the purpose of this question let's assume that the bottom is good and the anchor will hold. I've been looking at primarily wind patterns. In my area during the sailing season the wind primarily comes out of the southwest. Its a seabreeze and can get quite strong. So prudence would dictate that I anchor on the lee side of a land mass assuming that currents and tides are not monsterous considerations. After dark, when the land cools down and especially just before dawn, there is often a land breeze or off shore breeze which often can be quite strong. What was a good anchoring spot for the prevailing daylight seabreeze gets to be kinda bumpy at night. I have studied 24 hour wind directions and I see that it is not unusual, as a matter of fact its downright common for the wind to shift often and come from just about every direction through a 24 hour period of time. So the question comes down to this. In the REAL sailing world, how often do you actually find an anchorage that stays smooth for 24 hours as opposed to getting choppy or downright rough for some time during that 24 hour period? I'm not talking about an unexpected blast that comes in where you may have to weigh anchor and go to another spot. I guess I'm trying to find out how to pick that "perfect anchorage" that stays smooth just about all the time. I guess with few well known exceptions, which means crowds, there is no such thing and you have to be prepared for chop even in normal weather. Any advice would be welcome. If I'm going to convince my wife that weekend cruising can open up some new sailing worlds, I can't have her gettin' seasick in the middle of the night!
Thanks,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
demers@sgi.com
-
Ed Haley
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Hi, Warren:
The issue of anchoring is always a complex and sometimes highly personal event. There are many preferences as indicated by the responses and each preference may be the best on any one particular spot in certain conditions. There are times when a stern anchor would be proper in addition to your bow anchor. At other times, two bow anchors at roughly a 45 degree angle. If you're in an anchorage with other boats, you have to consider how they anchored. Do they swing or are they attached to a stern anchor.
When I have the choice of how to anchor in heavy conditions, I use two anchors in tandem - that is, two anchors off the bow attached to the same rode - on all chain. The holding power of anchors set in this manner is about 50% greater than the same two anchors set at an angle. The boat is allowed to swing with current and wind. However, you will have a heavy task when weighing anchor(s). Set the chain in the middle of the bow and have a lot of weight forward to lessen the sailing effect at anchor. A riding sail would really help.
If you're in an anchorage with a lot of boats in heavy conditions, there will always be someone dragging anchor. Expect it. You have to watch your relative position with other boats. When this happens, usually there is a lot of commotion on a boat in the middle of the night. If you hear this, you should investigate.
A peaceful night's sleep aboard an anchored boat is a relative thing. A sailor has to be consciously attuned to the environment and conditions around him/her. Then your subconscious awareness will remain on guard while your body rests. I doubt that you will ever be in a deep sleep - merely resting in a "less than deep" sleep.
As your confidence builds, you'll rest more. But the progress toward that point will only come through experience.
IMHO, of course.
Hope to see you in LIS this summer.
Ed Haley
Captain s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Mystic CT
eghaleyNOSPAM@twcny.rr.com
The issue of anchoring is always a complex and sometimes highly personal event. There are many preferences as indicated by the responses and each preference may be the best on any one particular spot in certain conditions. There are times when a stern anchor would be proper in addition to your bow anchor. At other times, two bow anchors at roughly a 45 degree angle. If you're in an anchorage with other boats, you have to consider how they anchored. Do they swing or are they attached to a stern anchor.
When I have the choice of how to anchor in heavy conditions, I use two anchors in tandem - that is, two anchors off the bow attached to the same rode - on all chain. The holding power of anchors set in this manner is about 50% greater than the same two anchors set at an angle. The boat is allowed to swing with current and wind. However, you will have a heavy task when weighing anchor(s). Set the chain in the middle of the bow and have a lot of weight forward to lessen the sailing effect at anchor. A riding sail would really help.
If you're in an anchorage with a lot of boats in heavy conditions, there will always be someone dragging anchor. Expect it. You have to watch your relative position with other boats. When this happens, usually there is a lot of commotion on a boat in the middle of the night. If you hear this, you should investigate.
A peaceful night's sleep aboard an anchored boat is a relative thing. A sailor has to be consciously attuned to the environment and conditions around him/her. Then your subconscious awareness will remain on guard while your body rests. I doubt that you will ever be in a deep sleep - merely resting in a "less than deep" sleep.
As your confidence builds, you'll rest more. But the progress toward that point will only come through experience.
IMHO, of course.
Hope to see you in LIS this summer.
Ed Haley
Captain s/v Mokita
CD330 #1
Mystic CT
eghaleyNOSPAM@twcny.rr.com
-
Eric
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages -- Two Anchors?
Yipes. I guess you don't like cowboys. I actually am quite partial to them, since I can't ride a horse worth a darn and wish I could. I just meant I assume they don't know their way around a boat (like I don't know my way around a horse). Nothing to be offended by. I'm asking to be enlightened here. Maybe I'm missing something
len wrote: eric
cowboy?? - i try not to make assumptions about other people based on limited information so i will try not to make any assumptions about you
len
-
Catherine Monaghan
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Warren,
You may want to spend your first few days/nights spent on the boat with your wife on your own mooring in Oyster Bay. Go sailing during the day and return to your mooring in the evening. This way you'll both be confident that the boat isn't going anywhere, you'll still have the feeling of being at anchor, and your wife will get used to sleeping on the boat. After you've done that a couple of times, bypass your mooring and try anchoring in West Harbor. You'll still be somewhat close to home and Sine Qua Non will be sitting safely in a hurricane hole. Then try Cold Spring Harbor. It's protected from everything except a northerly, its deep, and you can anchor anywhere in there. If the wind's from the southwest, just head towards the western shore and drop the hook.
In the summer on Long Island Sound the prevailing winds are mostly from the southwest, so you'll be looking for anchorages that provide protection from that direction unless the weatherman has predicted otherwise. And as some have already stated, the wind dies down considerably after sunset. So during the night your boat will be effected more by the tides than the wind.
You'll find that Long Island Sound offers a plethora of places to tuck your boat. If you don't have one, I highly recommend the cruising guides produced by MapTech Embassy Guides. Their Long Island Sound edition is chock full of the info, including pictures, that you're looking for.
Happy sailing,
Cathy
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghanNOSPAM@merck.com
You may want to spend your first few days/nights spent on the boat with your wife on your own mooring in Oyster Bay. Go sailing during the day and return to your mooring in the evening. This way you'll both be confident that the boat isn't going anywhere, you'll still have the feeling of being at anchor, and your wife will get used to sleeping on the boat. After you've done that a couple of times, bypass your mooring and try anchoring in West Harbor. You'll still be somewhat close to home and Sine Qua Non will be sitting safely in a hurricane hole. Then try Cold Spring Harbor. It's protected from everything except a northerly, its deep, and you can anchor anywhere in there. If the wind's from the southwest, just head towards the western shore and drop the hook.
In the summer on Long Island Sound the prevailing winds are mostly from the southwest, so you'll be looking for anchorages that provide protection from that direction unless the weatherman has predicted otherwise. And as some have already stated, the wind dies down considerably after sunset. So during the night your boat will be effected more by the tides than the wind.
You'll find that Long Island Sound offers a plethora of places to tuck your boat. If you don't have one, I highly recommend the cruising guides produced by MapTech Embassy Guides. Their Long Island Sound edition is chock full of the info, including pictures, that you're looking for.
Happy sailing,
Cathy
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Warren Kaplan wrote: I intend to anchor out for weekends this year so I've been doing some research into "picking anchorages". For the purpose of this question let's assume that the bottom is good and the anchor will hold. I've been looking at primarily wind patterns. In my area during the sailing season the wind primarily comes out of the southwest. Its a seabreeze and can get quite strong. So prudence would dictate that I anchor on the lee side of a land mass assuming that currents and tides are not monsterous considerations. After dark, when the land cools down and especially just before dawn, there is often a land breeze or off shore breeze which often can be quite strong. What was a good anchoring spot for the prevailing daylight seabreeze gets to be kinda bumpy at night. I have studied 24 hour wind directions and I see that it is not unusual, as a matter of fact its downright common for the wind to shift often and come from just about every direction through a 24 hour period of time. So the question comes down to this. In the REAL sailing world, how often do you actually find an anchorage that stays smooth for 24 hours as opposed to getting choppy or downright rough for some time during that 24 hour period? I'm not talking about an unexpected blast that comes in where you may have to weigh anchor and go to another spot. I guess I'm trying to find out how to pick that "perfect anchorage" that stays smooth just about all the time. I guess with few well known exceptions, which means crowds, there is no such thing and you have to be prepared for chop even in normal weather. Any advice would be welcome. If I'm going to convince my wife that weekend cruising can open up some new sailing worlds, I can't have her gettin' seasick in the middle of the night!
Thanks,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
catherine_monaghanNOSPAM@merck.com
-
John Nestor
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Hi Warren,
Given good holding, the next thing to wish for is that you can set your cocktail (which you can now have because you are confident in your holding) down unattended. If you can leave your cocktail unattended, you can probably sleep quite soundly as well.
What I've found is that your boat’s relationship to wind and waves has the most significant impact on cocktail stability. Often behind what appears to be a protective point of land, you'll find a small swell will wrap right around the point and into your anchorage. Were you facing this swell, your drink would sit still, however since the swell is unlikely to be from directly ahead or astern, your boat may set to rocking like an amusement park ride – slowly at first, building to a crescendo, then tapering off, only to start again - enough to not only spill your rum and tonic, but to also to prevent a sound night's sleep. This can also happen just after a wind shift or as a result of tidal currents re-orienting the boat. Furthermore, an anchorage that may feel quiet at low tide, may allow the swell to creep in at high tide depending on the tidal range – less bottom resistance and a smaller point of land offering you protection.
To the end of choosing a good anchorage, look for something more than just the lee of the wind. To the end of coping with a little motion, use of riding sails and rudder angle in various combinations can often get you settled. Summed up, I worry about wind when I’m worried about holding. I worry about wave direction when worried about motion.
I’ve found that these problems of wave direction cause far greater discomfort than those presented by waves and wind more generally. Headed into a chop or a swell, a CD30 provides a pretty stable platform – I’d guess the 27 would as well. Particularly in the cabin and on the settees, forward and backward pitching is less of an issue than rocking. Perhaps this is due to the way the boat moves primarily around its center of gravity, perhaps due to the fact that we are longer than we are wide – not sure.
As I have also struggle to impress upon my sweetheart the sublime pleasure of sailing, I’d recommend making sure that her trip is pleasant in the ways that you can surely control. Not to diminish the importance and enjoyment of finding a pleasant anchorage, but sometimes, despite the best planning, it just doesn’t feel good. I’m talking about cooking her dinner, feeding her wine, taking her ashore for a stroll on a beach or the rocks, teaching her how things work so she’s not just a passenger. All of these things may contribute to your likelihood of having a sailing companion as much as may many quiet anchorages. I believe that these little things have earned me the presence of a companion for what might otherwise have been a rather solitary month this summer. We’re currently reading “Dragged Aboard,” by Don Casey. I know she’d rather be reading “Yoga Journal,” but we’re making steady progress.
Good luck,
John Nestor
s/v Heron
Cape Dory 30 Ketch
Lake Champlain, VT
jwnestor@yahoo.com
Given good holding, the next thing to wish for is that you can set your cocktail (which you can now have because you are confident in your holding) down unattended. If you can leave your cocktail unattended, you can probably sleep quite soundly as well.
What I've found is that your boat’s relationship to wind and waves has the most significant impact on cocktail stability. Often behind what appears to be a protective point of land, you'll find a small swell will wrap right around the point and into your anchorage. Were you facing this swell, your drink would sit still, however since the swell is unlikely to be from directly ahead or astern, your boat may set to rocking like an amusement park ride – slowly at first, building to a crescendo, then tapering off, only to start again - enough to not only spill your rum and tonic, but to also to prevent a sound night's sleep. This can also happen just after a wind shift or as a result of tidal currents re-orienting the boat. Furthermore, an anchorage that may feel quiet at low tide, may allow the swell to creep in at high tide depending on the tidal range – less bottom resistance and a smaller point of land offering you protection.
To the end of choosing a good anchorage, look for something more than just the lee of the wind. To the end of coping with a little motion, use of riding sails and rudder angle in various combinations can often get you settled. Summed up, I worry about wind when I’m worried about holding. I worry about wave direction when worried about motion.
I’ve found that these problems of wave direction cause far greater discomfort than those presented by waves and wind more generally. Headed into a chop or a swell, a CD30 provides a pretty stable platform – I’d guess the 27 would as well. Particularly in the cabin and on the settees, forward and backward pitching is less of an issue than rocking. Perhaps this is due to the way the boat moves primarily around its center of gravity, perhaps due to the fact that we are longer than we are wide – not sure.
As I have also struggle to impress upon my sweetheart the sublime pleasure of sailing, I’d recommend making sure that her trip is pleasant in the ways that you can surely control. Not to diminish the importance and enjoyment of finding a pleasant anchorage, but sometimes, despite the best planning, it just doesn’t feel good. I’m talking about cooking her dinner, feeding her wine, taking her ashore for a stroll on a beach or the rocks, teaching her how things work so she’s not just a passenger. All of these things may contribute to your likelihood of having a sailing companion as much as may many quiet anchorages. I believe that these little things have earned me the presence of a companion for what might otherwise have been a rather solitary month this summer. We’re currently reading “Dragged Aboard,” by Don Casey. I know she’d rather be reading “Yoga Journal,” but we’re making steady progress.
Good luck,
John Nestor
s/v Heron
Cape Dory 30 Ketch
Lake Champlain, VT
Warren Kaplan wrote: I intend to anchor out for weekends this year so I've been doing some research into "picking anchorages". For the purpose of this question let's assume that the bottom is good and the anchor will hold. I've been looking at primarily wind patterns. In my area during the sailing season the wind primarily comes out of the southwest. Its a seabreeze and can get quite strong. So prudence would dictate that I anchor on the lee side of a land mass assuming that currents and tides are not monsterous considerations. After dark, when the land cools down and especially just before dawn, there is often a land breeze or off shore breeze which often can be quite strong. What was a good anchoring spot for the prevailing daylight seabreeze gets to be kinda bumpy at night. I have studied 24 hour wind directions and I see that it is not unusual, as a matter of fact its downright common for the wind to shift often and come from just about every direction through a 24 hour period of time. So the question comes down to this. In the REAL sailing world, how often do you actually find an anchorage that stays smooth for 24 hours as opposed to getting choppy or downright rough for some time during that 24 hour period? I'm not talking about an unexpected blast that comes in where you may have to weigh anchor and go to another spot. I guess I'm trying to find out how to pick that "perfect anchorage" that stays smooth just about all the time. I guess with few well known exceptions, which means crowds, there is no such thing and you have to be prepared for chop even in normal weather. Any advice would be welcome. If I'm going to convince my wife that weekend cruising can open up some new sailing worlds, I can't have her gettin' seasick in the middle of the night!
Thanks,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
jwnestor@yahoo.com
-
len
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages -- Two Anchors?
eric, larry et al
ok, ok i won't be so sensitive - i have anchored in a tight spot between the mainland and a little island with only a few hundred feet between them using bow and stern anchors to make sure i don't go ashore either way - two anchors off the bow certainly works much better in a more exposed situation, and getting them angled as far as possible is best -
have a good weekend, hopefully sailing!
len
md.frel@nwh.org
ok, ok i won't be so sensitive - i have anchored in a tight spot between the mainland and a little island with only a few hundred feet between them using bow and stern anchors to make sure i don't go ashore either way - two anchors off the bow certainly works much better in a more exposed situation, and getting them angled as far as possible is best -
have a good weekend, hopefully sailing!
len
md.frel@nwh.org
-
Murray Glue
Re: Picking Wives for Overnight Anchorages
This is an interesting discussion indeed. I may be confusing the 2 main issues a little but: I am always careful to pick a wife who is good on the bow, and will even allow her to pick the spot for the anchor to go down. This way , when the roll comes in at 0300, there is an obligation for her to be back on the bow, or at least, on deck while the situation is remedied.
A second wife, whether laid astern or not is always a good policy. We often run a long line astern onto the beach to hold the yachts heading
in a favourable direction, or in deep coves, to pull the boat under the fringing trees and completely out of the wind.
Right now I have a very large CQR on the bow ( 45 pounds ) with 60 metres of chain and no second anchor ( I am looking for one ). I also have no wife ( the first two dragged ), but I do have a girlfriend who offers excellent holding and will also climb the mast.
Anchoring generally is an art form. It should be done in complete silence, with the use of hand signals and a minimum of loud discussions which serve only to amuse the other boaties. Good tackle is essential ( but this is a family page right? ). And never marry a non sailor. These, and a bottle of cognac, I think, are the essentials of a good nights sleep.
Happy times,
Murray Glue
CD30 Dayspring
Nelson
New Zealand
murray@offshoretechnical.com
A second wife, whether laid astern or not is always a good policy. We often run a long line astern onto the beach to hold the yachts heading
in a favourable direction, or in deep coves, to pull the boat under the fringing trees and completely out of the wind.
Right now I have a very large CQR on the bow ( 45 pounds ) with 60 metres of chain and no second anchor ( I am looking for one ). I also have no wife ( the first two dragged ), but I do have a girlfriend who offers excellent holding and will also climb the mast.
Anchoring generally is an art form. It should be done in complete silence, with the use of hand signals and a minimum of loud discussions which serve only to amuse the other boaties. Good tackle is essential ( but this is a family page right? ). And never marry a non sailor. These, and a bottle of cognac, I think, are the essentials of a good nights sleep.
Happy times,
Murray Glue
CD30 Dayspring
Nelson
New Zealand
murray@offshoretechnical.com
-
Nautical Traditions Offic
Re: Arg, Matey, and haven't ya covered it all....
Captain Glue,
A glass of wine with you Sir, and you have defined what is TRULY required in any anchorage! What you said is so appro po (sp), that I am at a loss for words! I will print your response and review it with coffee in the forenoon watch this morning next...........thank you for the laugh Sir, I remain........
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !
Nautical Traditions Officer
CDSOA, Inc
Sir, CAN I print that, or would it be censored by the powers that be here in the States?????
A glass of wine with you Sir, and you have defined what is TRULY required in any anchorage! What you said is so appro po (sp), that I am at a loss for words! I will print your response and review it with coffee in the forenoon watch this morning next...........thank you for the laugh Sir, I remain........
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !
Nautical Traditions Officer
CDSOA, Inc
Sir, CAN I print that, or would it be censored by the powers that be here in the States?????
-
Paul Hierstein
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Will,Will W. wrote: Hi Warren
I know what you mean about getting the wife to come along and enjoy herself. I'm still trying to figure that one out. She is very understanding about my love for sailing and does not complain very much about the time I spend; and it is a lot, on boating and related activities. One thing I am going to try this year is doing a long day sail to someplace that we can dock and stay in an Inn. My wife is a creature of comfort and even though she wants to be adventurous, I have to be realistic about her wants etc. Plus the 25 is a bit small.
Here's a funny story that helped my wife become resigned to a future of sailing. She had a Psychic reading done recently and without being promted during the session, the psychic asked her if her husband was a sailor. She replied that I was and why did she ask. The psychic said that she saw us with a boat. Suzi replied that we did have a boat. The psychic immediatly replied " no, I see a BIGGER boat ". Acooding to this wonderful psychic, I will live mostly on the boat ( I envision a pretty nice boat ) and my wife will live with me on weekends, mostly.
So if you need some help convincing the wife to enjoy sailing, I can try to get you that psychic's number. Of course, there was no time set for this dream. But at least the wife is thinking more about joining me this year.
Good luck with the search, and happy sailing.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
Was that Miss Cleo?????
Paul
Will W. wrote:
Warren Kaplan wrote: I intend to anchor out for weekends this year so I've been doing some research into "picking anchorages". For the purpose of this question let's assume that the bottom is good and the anchor will hold. I've been looking at primarily wind patterns. In my area during the sailing season the wind primarily comes out of the southwest. Its a seabreeze and can get quite strong. So prudence would dictate that I anchor on the lee side of a land mass assuming that currents and tides are not monsterous considerations. After dark, when the land cools down and especially just before dawn, there is often a land breeze or off shore breeze which often can be quite strong. What was a good anchoring spot for the prevailing daylight seabreeze gets to be kinda bumpy at night. I have studied 24 hour wind directions and I see that it is not unusual, as a matter of fact its downright common for the wind to shift often and come from just about every direction through a 24 hour period of time. So the question comes down to this. In the REAL sailing world, how often do you actually find an anchorage that stays smooth for 24 hours as opposed to getting choppy or downright rough for some time during that 24 hour period? I'm not talking about an unexpected blast that comes in where you may have to weigh anchor and go to another spot. I guess I'm trying to find out how to pick that "perfect anchorage" that stays smooth just about all the time. I guess with few well known exceptions, which means crowds, there is no such thing and you have to be prepared for chop even in normal weather. Any advice would be welcome. If I'm going to convince my wife that weekend cruising can open up some new sailing worlds, I can't have her gettin' seasick in the middle of the night!
Thanks,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
paulhstn@aol.com
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will W.
Re: Picking Wives for Overnight Anchorages
Alas! It was the fate of some of us to get the wife with good holding before the boat. Now the trick is to get them to fit together so as to provide security for those troublesome anchorages and thoughtless peace and happiness in calm.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
willwheatley@starpower.net
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
Murray Glue wrote: This is an interesting discussion indeed. I may be confusing the 2 main issues a little but: I am always careful to pick a wife who is good on the bow, and will even allow her to pick the spot for the anchor to go down. This way , when the roll comes in at 0300, there is an obligation for her to be back on the bow, or at least, on deck while the situation is remedied.
A second wife, whether laid astern or not is always a good policy. We often run a long line astern onto the beach to hold the yachts heading
in a favourable direction, or in deep coves, to pull the boat under the fringing trees and completely out of the wind.
Right now I have a very large CQR on the bow ( 45 pounds ) with 60 metres of chain and no second anchor ( I am looking for one ). I also have no wife ( the first two dragged ), but I do have a girlfriend who offers excellent holding and will also climb the mast.
Anchoring generally is an art form. It should be done in complete silence, with the use of hand signals and a minimum of loud discussions which serve only to amuse the other boaties. Good tackle is essential ( but this is a family page right? ). And never marry a non sailor. These, and a bottle of cognac, I think, are the essentials of a good nights sleep.
Happy times,
Murray Glue
CD30 Dayspring
Nelson
New Zealand
willwheatley@starpower.net
-
Warren Kaplan
Re: Picking Overnight Anchorages
Thanks all for your great suggestions and options for anchoring out. I do have experience (albeit limited) in anchoring out for the night. Two years ago 4 of us sailed on a Beneteau 38 from Ft. Lauderdale to Key Largo and back over a period of 7 days. We anchored out every night but one. We had nights that were flat calm but horribly hot and humid (south Fla) and we had nights with thunderstorms. My question was more about everyone's experience in trying to find that "elusive" if not downright not existent "perfect anchorage" in all conditions. As I suspected it really doesn't exist. The ones that come closest are usually chocked full of other boats on weekends which presents another set of problems, potentially more daunting than the weather getting up a bit. I myself love sailing so much that I don't particularly care if a night or two in the anchorage is a little bumpy or, shall we say, less than restful. But I'm not the only one involved here. Catherine...great minds think alike! I've already decided that the first time out (for my wife) will be spent on the mooring in OB. Then, maybe we'll go sailing, and spend another night on the hook in West Harbor. I think one or two good nights are all we'll need. An experience of a few good nights can go a long way in making a novice realize that even after a bad few nights.."it isn't always that way." Anyway, I thank you all for all the detailed remarks. Its amazing the questions that can get answered here.
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
Setsail728@aol.com
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
Setsail728@aol.com