They Sure Don't Build Them Like They Used To...

Discussions about Cape Dory, Intrepid and Robinhood sailboats and how we use them. Got questions? Have answers? Provide them here.

Moderator: Jim Walsh

Bristol Bronze

Re: They Sure Don't Build Them Like They Used To...

Post by Bristol Bronze »

Warren Kaplan wrote: Larry,
Certainly a revelation that brings revulsion to the reader. I wonder how "widespread" these substandard boat building practice have become? Is this just happening with new builders who have opened for business since 1990? Maybe not since Sea Ray is an old line boat that "used" to be thought of as a quality product. But then again "Mr. SeaRay" may have sold the company to a conglomerate that is just interested in the bottom line. So Sea Ray today isn't the Sea Ray of old.
But what about quality boat builders. Hinckley, Morris Yachts and what about Robinhood Marine? Surely there are still some that have "old fashion pride" in producing quality. If you look at the literature (or website) or other ads for these companies they often tell you exactly what the construction materials and specs are for their hulls, decks, etc. I find it hard to believe that some of these really old line high quality companies would risk their reputations, and reputations that command a premium price when buying new, on such practices. I, too, often look at Mr Pascoe's reviews but I think this time he gives the impression that ALL boat builders build their new boats that way. I sure hope not.
What does bother me is this. I, like many of you I suspect, get a multitude of sailing magazines and publications each month. Invariably there is a section entitled something like "New Boat Review". There, some marine architects/sailboat mavens/circumnavigators and the like review new boats. I know these publications depend heavily on these builders for advertising dollars but did you EVER read even one sentence that you could probably hole the hull if a broom handle accidently hit the topsides? I've read comments like, "the bunks could be longer or the engine access is impossible" but never once a criticism of the structural integrity of a boat. The Gods of Commerce rule all I guess.
In any event, Sine Qua Non is the winner in all this. I will redouble my efforts to keep this irreplacable Cape Dory jewel in A-1 Shape. We Cape Dory captains are a very lucky few!

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166, of that quality year 1980
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
Dear Warren,

I agree completely with your comments. In my business I get to work on boats of all ages and types of construction. Many of my customers with newer boats feel good about getting ten years out of a fitting before having to replace it. My own personal boat, the one on the home page of my web site, was built at Herreshoff Mfg. Co. in September of 1920. Most of my fittings are original and are still fine.

Last Spring I was asked to make all new fittings for a twenty foot cat boat. The original fittings were still working but the owner thought that they were looking tired. Many had some scratches and dings. He asked me to use his original fittings as models and make him all new ones. My point is that the boat and here fittings were made in 1892. Neither the owner nor I saw anything unusual in the fact that the 109 year old boat and her fittings were still functional. In the process I also developed the tooling for some of the most beautiful fittings that you have ever seen.

It would have been cheaper and easier for this boat's owner to simply go to a marine mega store and by new stainless steel fittings. Fortunately he appreciated the grace and aesthetics of the 1890's designs and had me reproduce them.

Since the Cape Dory line of boats have classic hull shapes I now have many CD owners that are in the process of getting rid of the modern day fittings of aluminum, plastic and stainless steel that were used on their boats and replacing them with the beautiful hardware of a century ago.

Roger W.
Bristol Bronze
401-625-5224



info@bristolbronze.com
Walt Bilofsky

Couple comments ...

Post by Walt Bilofsky »

Fascinating article! Thanks, Larry.

Too bad the author didn't identify more makes of boats, and the years they were built.

Whenever I have to cut an inch or larger hole out of one of the surfaces on my boat, I label and save the plug. I've got plugs of the hull, the foredeck, cored and uncored sections of the flybridge, and even the cabin headliner.

I never hope to sell my CD 30 powerboat, but if I ever must, the purchaser and surveyor won't have to guess what it's made of.

- Walt



[img]http://www.toolworks.com/bilofsky/temp/plugs.jpg[/img]
bilofsky@toolworks.com
JimL

Note about the SeaRays

Post by JimL »

In 1991 I bought a new "left over" 1990 Sea Ray 20 ft. cuddy-cabin model. My dealer recommended it to me for ocean use, over his newer models, stating it was the last of the "old fiberglass construction" (the boats with sharp corners, etc.) He told me the new rounded styles permitted building the boats with cheaper materials (boy, was he ever right!) Over the years I owned it, I had occasion to drill holes in various places while installing equipment and accessories. It did have fiberglass layup, though the sides weren't as thick as I'd hoped.

Another interesting note: When I was researching boats, before I bought that one, I visited some CG stations along the coast to ask about specific problems with popular brands. The Coast Guard guys didn't want to name names, but they were very helpful. They told me one of the problems they see, requiring rescue, is sterndrive powerboats with wood stringers that use lag-bolted engine mounts into the stringer. They said that dropping sideways off a wave at high speed results in sideways shock to engine mounts. The lag bolts split out of the stringer sideways, allowing the engine to fall into the bilge (opening a big leak in the transom). Unfortunately, the pan usually crushes the bilge pump at the same time. They told me to only buy a boat with built up motor mount boxes using through bolted motor mounts. That 1990 Sea Ray did have boxes with through bolted mounts....I don't know about later ones.

Very interesting situation these days, sure glad I found this old Cape Dory.



leinfam@earthlink.net
Hobbster

Re: Yikes!

Post by Hobbster »

Larry:

I have read with interest the comments that have been posted here. What a can of warms you have opened up. Here are a few comments from the builder's point of view. I have been designing and building fiberglass products for over 20 years and will start on the Cape Dory 300MS within the next 60+/- days.

1. Quality cost dollars. Many talk about wanting quality but when it comes time to pay the price, they opt. for the less $. Money is not a problem until they have to pay for it.
2. Keep in mind that the boats in the artical you mention were designed by a NA/engineer.
3. The standards are in place. They are AYBC, ASB, UL and the Coast Guard Standards. More are out there but these are the more popular ones.
4. When build a product for the Industrial market, they always ask about ENGINEERING. What is the design loads, etc. I have never been asked about that with boats. Why? I can't figure it out. Boat buyers want to see, feel, smell and ride on the product, then buy based on this. They never ask about quality control. How many know what quality control would be for boat MFG.
5. All too many times, boat buyers feel that if 1/4" is good, 1/2" is better. This is not so. If the engineering is properly done and the construction methods follow design, quality control is in place, the product will perform well. The product must also be designed so that it can be built, something not always done.

I have read many of the articals on the site you mentioned. All are very well written and are good for the lay person and Builders alike.

Yes Virginia, there are Fiberglass Boats still being built.

Glen



glen@hobbymarine.com
Larry DeMers

Re: Couple comments ...

Post by Larry DeMers »

Great Idea Walt, and that is a good sales point to remember. THe picture with the ruler in companion to it is a great idea if the plugs are lost.

Larry DeMers ~~1st. Weekend Aboard, and lovin' it!~~

Walt Bilofsky wrote: Fascinating article! Thanks, Larry.

Too bad the author didn't identify more makes of boats, and the years they were built.

Whenever I have to cut an inch or larger hole out of one of the surfaces on my boat, I label and save the plug. I've got plugs of the hull, the foredeck, cored and uncored sections of the flybridge, and even the cabin headliner.

I never hope to sell my CD 30 powerboat, but if I ever must, the purchaser and surveyor won't have to guess what it's made of.

- Walt


demers@sgi.com
Post Reply