Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Bill Storey
Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
When I asked a broker about purchasing a CD 25 (outboard model) he said "You don't want one of those." I never got an explanation. I know the cabin is a bit cramped: any other major negatives?
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Clay Stalker
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
Bill:Bill Storey wrote: When I asked a broker about purchasing a CD 25 (outboard model) he said "You don't want one of those." I never got an explanation. I know the cabin is a bit cramped: any other major negatives?
That's an odd comment for a broker to make, especially without qualifying it...in any event, some folks will try to steer you away from a boat with an outboard well. They list a number of problems with this, but quite frankly, I once had a Quickstep 24 with one and I found it worked very well for what I wanted. There are certainly pros and cons to this, it depends what you want. As far as interior room, the CD25 has considerably more than a Quickstep and is, in my humble opinion, a better constructed boat all around. The Quickstep is probably a tad faster, but the CD25 is both a good daysailor and can do extended cruising. I would not cruise extensively in a Quickstep. There will be lots of feedback on this site from CD25 owners (I'm not one) and overall you will find it a great boat. Just depends on what you expect the boat to do for you and how much you want to spend. If you want more room, get a CD27 or 28...If money is a prime concern, get a CD25...IMHO
Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa #247
Bristol, R.I.
cstalker@cheshire.met
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Don Carr
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
The only negative I find with the boat is room below is relatively non-existant. In my opinion the price points on the boats don't lend themselves well to brokers commissions.
As far as the outboard..look at this board for 'diesel' and 'outboard'- therein may lie the answer. Don't become a slave to your engine.
I think for the $ the CD25 is a better value than most 25's out there. They sail well and are not a major maintenance headache.
I'm sure many will try to sell you on bigger..but remember the cost of ownership increases geometrically as the length increases linearly.
IMHO
Don Carr
i/v Lolita
CD25
Noank, Ct
carrds@us.ibm.com
As far as the outboard..look at this board for 'diesel' and 'outboard'- therein may lie the answer. Don't become a slave to your engine.
I think for the $ the CD25 is a better value than most 25's out there. They sail well and are not a major maintenance headache.
I'm sure many will try to sell you on bigger..but remember the cost of ownership increases geometrically as the length increases linearly.
IMHO
Don Carr
i/v Lolita
CD25
Noank, Ct
carrds@us.ibm.com
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Will W.
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
My only gripe as a 25 owner is the space below.
Ascess your wishes for sailing. The 25 sacrificed some cabin space for cockpit space. Excellent for day sailing. The cockpit really will seat 4 pretty comfortably. If you plan to do a lot of weekend or longer trip, I can't imagine trying to spend the night with more than 1 other person and their gear. However I do know that it is possible to get three adults berthed for the night as long as one of you is short enough for the V berth, or doesn't mind sleeping curled up all night. I have spent the night alone on Suzi Q a few times and had plenty of room. The guy who sold us our 25 had two kids who would share the V berth. This season I plan to have a crew member for a several day cruise with the CDSOA Chesapeake Fleet. He is a good friend and an experienced sailor so hopefully there will be enough room for both of us to enjoy the trip.
I have been on several boats of similar length that had much larger cabins but 4 people in the cockpit was a joke. They also usually have deeper drafts. At 3 feet of draft, I find the CD25 is a great boat for the Chesapeake.
One thing I really like about the CD25 is that as a new sailor the boat seems to be very forgiving to my mistakes. She is a solid vessel and is easy to single hand.
Some may consider the Outboard feature a draw back but you can remove it if you want, especailly if you always sail from a mooring. Also at least one person I know of ( Jon Ring, Sovereign ) removes his and stows it in the locker while sailing.
Good luck with your search, I hope we see you on the board as a proud new owner soon.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
willwheatley@starpower.net
Ascess your wishes for sailing. The 25 sacrificed some cabin space for cockpit space. Excellent for day sailing. The cockpit really will seat 4 pretty comfortably. If you plan to do a lot of weekend or longer trip, I can't imagine trying to spend the night with more than 1 other person and their gear. However I do know that it is possible to get three adults berthed for the night as long as one of you is short enough for the V berth, or doesn't mind sleeping curled up all night. I have spent the night alone on Suzi Q a few times and had plenty of room. The guy who sold us our 25 had two kids who would share the V berth. This season I plan to have a crew member for a several day cruise with the CDSOA Chesapeake Fleet. He is a good friend and an experienced sailor so hopefully there will be enough room for both of us to enjoy the trip.
I have been on several boats of similar length that had much larger cabins but 4 people in the cockpit was a joke. They also usually have deeper drafts. At 3 feet of draft, I find the CD25 is a great boat for the Chesapeake.
One thing I really like about the CD25 is that as a new sailor the boat seems to be very forgiving to my mistakes. She is a solid vessel and is easy to single hand.
Some may consider the Outboard feature a draw back but you can remove it if you want, especailly if you always sail from a mooring. Also at least one person I know of ( Jon Ring, Sovereign ) removes his and stows it in the locker while sailing.
Good luck with your search, I hope we see you on the board as a proud new owner soon.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD
Don Carr wrote: The only negative I find with the boat is room below is relatively non-existant. In my opinion the price points on the boats don't lend themselves well to brokers commissions.
As far as the outboard..look at this board for 'diesel' and 'outboard'- therein may lie the answer. Don't become a slave to your engine.
I think for the $ the CD25 is a better value than most 25's out there. They sail well and are not a major maintenance headache.
I'm sure many will try to sell you on bigger..but remember the cost of ownership increases geometrically as the length increases linearly.
IMHO
Don Carr
i/v Lolita
CD25
Noank, Ct
willwheatley@starpower.net
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stu polhamus
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
Back in the mid-1970's when I was considering a 24' "pocket cruiser", the CD25 was on my list. I bought a 24' Sparkman-Stephens designed Dolphin instead. My Dolphin could sail rings around the many CD 25's I encountered. The downside of the CD 25 is that it's NOT an Alberg design, and it's not a very smart sailor.
rpolhamus@markelcorp.com
rpolhamus@markelcorp.com
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mcadams
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
I don't think it has to do with commissions, because, while brokers' fees are a percentage of the sale amount, they also generally charge a minimum commission of $1,500 or $2,000. If you look on yachtworld, there are a number of 25s there, which means they have been listed with brokers.
The space below is a drawback. I've seen more than one person on this board trade a 25 for something larger. If you're looking for an outboard specifically, try the 26. It's not as available, but it does have a larger interior. There are later models of these available, too, such that you're not dealing with a 25-30 year old boat.
The space below is a drawback. I've seen more than one person on this board trade a 25 for something larger. If you're looking for an outboard specifically, try the 26. It's not as available, but it does have a larger interior. There are later models of these available, too, such that you're not dealing with a 25-30 year old boat.
Bill Storey wrote: When I asked a broker about purchasing a CD 25 (outboard model) he said "You don't want one of those." I never got an explanation. I know the cabin is a bit cramped: any other major negatives?
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JimL
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
As a relatively new owner, here's a few thoughts. Looks like I got a little long-winded.....
PRO:
1. Very reasonably priced for a boat that was expensive in it's day. That means better ownership through the years. For a perfect example, compare early Hyundai to same year Toyotas. The Hyundai was heavily "pushed" at low price, no money down, small payments....which resulted in buyers that couldn't afford to fix them and put the reputation in a worse spot! The Toyota owners paid more, because they earned more, and took better care of a better product. These CDs are pretty good used boats....which is the bottom line for most of us. We are, after all, buying used boats. New Dana 24 is $100K, finished (and he keeps looking at mine and saying "boy, that's a nice cockpit...").
2. Really pretty boat. How long could you look for the asthetics in a J24 before you got really bored!?
3. Very easy to single hand....which surprised me because I've lived with 90 square foot mains for so long.
4. Probably the most comfortable ride I've found in a 25 footer (an affordable one).
5. Doesn't carry so much windage that you can't hit the slip or mooring. It don't matter how fast or fancy the boat is, if you nail the end of the dock while everybody's watching...you're gonna' learn to hate your boat!
6. The keels don't fall off, the hulls don't crack in front of the keel bolts, the chainplates don't tear out through dry rotted bulkheads, the rubrails haven't turned into something that looks like elastic run through a dryer, the decks stay on, the travelers don't tear out of a rotten plywood cockpit floor (boy, there's a plan...ain't it!....lets put the traveler in the floor where the fresh water rain can work around all the bolts....yea baby! sign me up for that one!!)
CONS:
1. 4 adults in the cockpit brings water in the scuppers.
2. Non-sailing types freak when the boat heels so far.
3. If you really need to be faster than the Joneses, it's not really your cup of tea.
4. People pester you wanting to know if you'll sell it.
leinfam@earthlink.net
PRO:
1. Very reasonably priced for a boat that was expensive in it's day. That means better ownership through the years. For a perfect example, compare early Hyundai to same year Toyotas. The Hyundai was heavily "pushed" at low price, no money down, small payments....which resulted in buyers that couldn't afford to fix them and put the reputation in a worse spot! The Toyota owners paid more, because they earned more, and took better care of a better product. These CDs are pretty good used boats....which is the bottom line for most of us. We are, after all, buying used boats. New Dana 24 is $100K, finished (and he keeps looking at mine and saying "boy, that's a nice cockpit...").
2. Really pretty boat. How long could you look for the asthetics in a J24 before you got really bored!?
3. Very easy to single hand....which surprised me because I've lived with 90 square foot mains for so long.
4. Probably the most comfortable ride I've found in a 25 footer (an affordable one).
5. Doesn't carry so much windage that you can't hit the slip or mooring. It don't matter how fast or fancy the boat is, if you nail the end of the dock while everybody's watching...you're gonna' learn to hate your boat!
6. The keels don't fall off, the hulls don't crack in front of the keel bolts, the chainplates don't tear out through dry rotted bulkheads, the rubrails haven't turned into something that looks like elastic run through a dryer, the decks stay on, the travelers don't tear out of a rotten plywood cockpit floor (boy, there's a plan...ain't it!....lets put the traveler in the floor where the fresh water rain can work around all the bolts....yea baby! sign me up for that one!!)
CONS:
1. 4 adults in the cockpit brings water in the scuppers.
2. Non-sailing types freak when the boat heels so far.
3. If you really need to be faster than the Joneses, it's not really your cup of tea.
4. People pester you wanting to know if you'll sell it.
leinfam@earthlink.net
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Jerry Hammernik
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
I sailed my 25 Dauntless for 20 years. I took two week cruises with three people on board. Great boat. I often sailed in company with CD 27's 28's 30's and 36's. We held our own, in part because after twenty years I knew just what she could and couldn't do. The only real problem in sailing is the lack of weight to carry her through waves when on the wind. There were times when I was sailing alongside larger (heavier) CD's and you could just see how the weight carried them through. Downwind we could often excel, in part because we didn't hesitate to fly a cruising chute and they did.Bill Storey wrote: When I asked a broker about purchasing a CD 25 (outboard model) he said "You don't want one of those." I never got an explanation. I know the cabin is a bit cramped: any other major negatives?
I wanted to get away from outboard worries (but it only broke once in 20 years, a $50 part, $50 labor problem in year 19) but I find I worry about the diesel just as much. But the diesel is much less annoying on the ears.
As I reached my mid 40's the ability to stand up down below became an issue. If you want to be in your living room you shouldn't go cruising, but the 25 is tight. It really depends on the budget and your plans. If the crew is compatible you can do two weeks, if they're not, an afternoon can be a lifetime.
If you pick a good CD25 she'll take good care of you. Mine could always take a lot more than the crew (including the skipper) could.
Good luck!
Jerry Hammernik
Lion's Paw
CD 28 #341
Sailing 1/2 the year from
South Shore Yacht Club
Milwaukee, on Lake Michigan
Milwaukee
dauntles@execpc.com
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Eric
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
And I sailed circles around a Dolphin last summer with my CD25 (finished 2 hours ahead of it in a 5-hour race). I guess that can only mean one thing: Sparkman-Stevens makes slow boats that nobody should ever want to own.
Seriously, there are pros and cons to every boat model. The Dolphin is probably more similar to the CD 25 than just about any other boat.
ew
Allia
Manchester, MA
Seriously, there are pros and cons to every boat model. The Dolphin is probably more similar to the CD 25 than just about any other boat.
ew
Allia
Manchester, MA
stu polhamus wrote: Back in the mid-1970's when I was considering a 24' "pocket cruiser", the CD25 was on my list. I bought a 24' Sparkman-Stephens designed Dolphin instead. My Dolphin could sail rings around the many CD 25's I encountered. The downside of the CD 25 is that it's NOT an Alberg design, and it's not a very smart sailor.
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Eric
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
HI Bill,
Where are you located? I'd suggest finding a local CD25 owner and trying to get aboard with him/her. THat's a great way to see/experience the pros and cons, even on the hard.
I suspect the broker was talking about the speed of the boat and/or her somewhat classic lines. Many people want something fast and, well, not so nice looking (to my eyes). It all depends on what you want to do with your boat. I like to spend weekend aboards alone or with a friend, take the occassional trip and a week or two in Maine. Allia is perfect for all of that, in my mind anyway.
If my goal was to go as fast as I can and never spend any time enjoying the boat, I'd want something else.
Just depends on your taste/needs
Eric Woodman
Allia
Manchester, MA
woodman_eric@emc.com
Where are you located? I'd suggest finding a local CD25 owner and trying to get aboard with him/her. THat's a great way to see/experience the pros and cons, even on the hard.
I suspect the broker was talking about the speed of the boat and/or her somewhat classic lines. Many people want something fast and, well, not so nice looking (to my eyes). It all depends on what you want to do with your boat. I like to spend weekend aboards alone or with a friend, take the occassional trip and a week or two in Maine. Allia is perfect for all of that, in my mind anyway.
If my goal was to go as fast as I can and never spend any time enjoying the boat, I'd want something else.
Just depends on your taste/needs
Eric Woodman
Allia
Manchester, MA
Bill Storey wrote: When I asked a broker about purchasing a CD 25 (outboard model) he said "You don't want one of those." I never got an explanation. I know the cabin is a bit cramped: any other major negatives?
woodman_eric@emc.com
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Don Carr
Re: Potential buyer CD 25: Any major negatives?
Stu;
Outside the fact that the Dolphin is a keel c/b boat; the reality is that both the CD25 and Dolphin 24 are PHRF rated at about 1-5 secs per mile different. The Dolphin being the better rated. Of course with C/B up downwind the Dolphin would do better but not exactly 'circles around' a CD25. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that the boats performance is directly proportional to the skippers sailing ability. Even Kon-Tiki crossed the Pacific....IMHO.
Don Carr
s/v Lolita
CD25
Noank, Ct
carrds@us.ibm.com
Outside the fact that the Dolphin is a keel c/b boat; the reality is that both the CD25 and Dolphin 24 are PHRF rated at about 1-5 secs per mile different. The Dolphin being the better rated. Of course with C/B up downwind the Dolphin would do better but not exactly 'circles around' a CD25. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that the boats performance is directly proportional to the skippers sailing ability. Even Kon-Tiki crossed the Pacific....IMHO.
Don Carr
s/v Lolita
CD25
Noank, Ct
carrds@us.ibm.com