We have been blessed with a very well performing engine in our year old purchase of MADNESS III, that doesn't appear to have any leaks of oil anywhere.....EXCEPT - we have a leak where the bolt attaches to a triangular shaped plate on top of the transmission that is attached to the shifting cable for forward to reverse. It's not alot and it gets caught in these 2 dimples on the top of the transmission housing. Here's the funny part...yesterday it didn't leak at all the whole time we were out (and we did alot of motoring for the Blessing of the Fleet), but after several challenging attempts of backing into the slip and finally succeeding, I noticed that it had leaked again.
My question is this: is there an inordent increase in pressure within the transmission during REVERSING that would increase the oil level and push some thru this attaching bolt? Has anyone else experienced this?
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net
Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
Chris,
Yes..I have an accumulation in those two little 'wells' also, although I suspected that I was getting some fuel trapped there after bleeding the primary (engine mounted) fuel filter, which is right above them. I do know for a fact that if you bled that filter, some of the diesel will accumulate in those two wells.
Something about the transmission leaking into those spots bothers me Chris. I wonder why the oil level is up at the top of the tranny case? Ordinarily, the oil in that case is just a little at the very bottom, as read by the dip stick. The only oil that would wander up there would be oil that was splashed up there fvrom the bath of oil in the cases bottom, and that is not likely to leak from anything but a wide open joint. To leak from a gasketed seal, I would think that the leaking area must be immersed in oil that was under internal pressure. None of these things are happening on the MD7a/b with a V drive.
So check your filter for leaking..or mop up the little resevoirs and see if the problem repeats itself..when you most definitely did not bleed the engine.
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
Yes..I have an accumulation in those two little 'wells' also, although I suspected that I was getting some fuel trapped there after bleeding the primary (engine mounted) fuel filter, which is right above them. I do know for a fact that if you bled that filter, some of the diesel will accumulate in those two wells.
Something about the transmission leaking into those spots bothers me Chris. I wonder why the oil level is up at the top of the tranny case? Ordinarily, the oil in that case is just a little at the very bottom, as read by the dip stick. The only oil that would wander up there would be oil that was splashed up there fvrom the bath of oil in the cases bottom, and that is not likely to leak from anything but a wide open joint. To leak from a gasketed seal, I would think that the leaking area must be immersed in oil that was under internal pressure. None of these things are happening on the MD7a/b with a V drive.
So check your filter for leaking..or mop up the little resevoirs and see if the problem repeats itself..when you most definitely did not bleed the engine.
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Lake Superior
Chris Schnell wrote: We have been blessed with a very well performing engine in our year old purchase of MADNESS III, that doesn't appear to have any leaks of oil anywhere.....EXCEPT - we have a leak where the bolt attaches to a triangular shaped plate on top of the transmission that is attached to the shifting cable for forward to reverse. It's not alot and it gets caught in these 2 dimples on the top of the transmission housing. Here's the funny part...yesterday it didn't leak at all the whole time we were out (and we did alot of motoring for the Blessing of the Fleet), but after several challenging attempts of backing into the slip and finally succeeding, I noticed that it had leaked again.
My question is this: is there an inordent increase in pressure within the transmission during REVERSING that would increase the oil level and push some thru this attaching bolt? Has anyone else experienced this?
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
demers@sgi.com
-
John Nestor
Re: Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
Chris,
I'm blessed with a similar, actually identical problem. Combined with a nasty shaft seal drip, I get quite a broth of oil and seawater in the tray under my engine.
I think Larry has identified the issue - Why is the transmission oil so high. Doesn't the raw water line run through the forward end of the transmission housing? I suspect that we have an internal leak in that pump and that it's doing a nice job of keeping that resevoir over full so that when you shift gears, the oil water mixture squirts out through the seal on the top of the transmission.
This scares me a bit, as I can't quite bear to imagine the cause of a pump leak or the consequences of salt water in the transmission fluid.
Thoughts?
John
s/v Heron
Cape Dory 30 Ketch
Burlington, VT
jwnestor@yahoo.com
I'm blessed with a similar, actually identical problem. Combined with a nasty shaft seal drip, I get quite a broth of oil and seawater in the tray under my engine.
I think Larry has identified the issue - Why is the transmission oil so high. Doesn't the raw water line run through the forward end of the transmission housing? I suspect that we have an internal leak in that pump and that it's doing a nice job of keeping that resevoir over full so that when you shift gears, the oil water mixture squirts out through the seal on the top of the transmission.
This scares me a bit, as I can't quite bear to imagine the cause of a pump leak or the consequences of salt water in the transmission fluid.
Thoughts?
John
s/v Heron
Cape Dory 30 Ketch
Burlington, VT
Chris Schnell wrote: We have been blessed with a very well performing engine in our year old purchase of MADNESS III, that doesn't appear to have any leaks of oil anywhere.....EXCEPT - we have a leak where the bolt attaches to a triangular shaped plate on top of the transmission that is attached to the shifting cable for forward to reverse. It's not alot and it gets caught in these 2 dimples on the top of the transmission housing. Here's the funny part...yesterday it didn't leak at all the whole time we were out (and we did alot of motoring for the Blessing of the Fleet), but after several challenging attempts of backing into the slip and finally succeeding, I noticed that it had leaked again.
My question is this: is there an inordent increase in pressure within the transmission during REVERSING that would increase the oil level and push some thru this attaching bolt? Has anyone else experienced this?
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
jwnestor@yahoo.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
John and Chris,
That was my worry..that the transmission cooler had split open and was filling that cavity with water. I don't know how hard it would be to repair it, but to test it, I would use some air pressure after capping off the output tube somehow. A leak would provide bubbling in the tranny case and it would be obvious.
To repair.. or not? If the heat exchanger is bad, and the boat is sailed in cooler waters, then the tranny cooler is probably not all that necessary, so could be bypassed. But I am not sure about how hot that tranny runs without the water cooling, so this would have to be experimented with. The tube itself may be simple to pull and replace, or it could be a prbolem. Salt water in there will have caused trouble I bet, so get a good engine/transmisison mechanic to look at it.
Best of luck!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
That was my worry..that the transmission cooler had split open and was filling that cavity with water. I don't know how hard it would be to repair it, but to test it, I would use some air pressure after capping off the output tube somehow. A leak would provide bubbling in the tranny case and it would be obvious.
To repair.. or not? If the heat exchanger is bad, and the boat is sailed in cooler waters, then the tranny cooler is probably not all that necessary, so could be bypassed. But I am not sure about how hot that tranny runs without the water cooling, so this would have to be experimented with. The tube itself may be simple to pull and replace, or it could be a prbolem. Salt water in there will have caused trouble I bet, so get a good engine/transmisison mechanic to look at it.
Best of luck!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing Lake Superior
John Nestor wrote: Chris,
I'm blessed with a similar, actually identical problem. Combined with a nasty shaft seal drip, I get quite a broth of oil and seawater in the tray under my engine.
I think Larry has identified the issue - Why is the transmission oil so high. Doesn't the raw water line run through the forward end of the transmission housing? I suspect that we have an internal leak in that pump and that it's doing a nice job of keeping that resevoir over full so that when you shift gears, the oil water mixture squirts out through the seal on the top of the transmission.
This scares me a bit, as I can't quite bear to imagine the cause of a pump leak or the consequences of salt water in the transmission fluid.
Thoughts?
John
s/v Heron
Cape Dory 30 Ketch
Burlington, VT
Chris Schnell wrote: We have been blessed with a very well performing engine in our year old purchase of MADNESS III, that doesn't appear to have any leaks of oil anywhere.....EXCEPT - we have a leak where the bolt attaches to a triangular shaped plate on top of the transmission that is attached to the shifting cable for forward to reverse. It's not alot and it gets caught in these 2 dimples on the top of the transmission housing. Here's the funny part...yesterday it didn't leak at all the whole time we were out (and we did alot of motoring for the Blessing of the Fleet), but after several challenging attempts of backing into the slip and finally succeeding, I noticed that it had leaked again.
My question is this: is there an inordent increase in pressure within the transmission during REVERSING that would increase the oil level and push some thru this attaching bolt? Has anyone else experienced this?
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
demers@sgi.com
-
Chris Schnell
Re: Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
John and Larry,
Actually I know so little about the engine/transmission that I'm not sure what all you're talking about...so the best advice for me would be that of a trained Volvo engine mechanic! But I have to tell you that I drained and changed the transmission oil last year when I first bought her and most likely overfilled it. When I check the oil level the oil itself is clear and clean and water-free. I don't leak enough to overflow those dimples and go down the side of the casing. I of course have the drop per 7 seconds thru the stuffing box but that's it. I place one of these engine drip sheets (large tufted cotton piece that I tri-fold) in that trough to easily detect any oil leaks immediately. The water drips roll down it to the bottom of the tray and probably once a week I vac that out and wipe it down. There are no leaks (oil, fuel, etc.) Anything other than really clean shows me there's a change going on. I really don't think I have any water intrusion. I will be changing that oil here in the next month and pay very close attention to water contamination. I will also pay closer attention to the amount of oil I put in and see if this continues. Like I said, several hours of motorsailing in forward didn't result in any leakage...just when I tried to back her into the slip. I have so much to learn. Thanks for your inputs and assistance.
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net
Actually I know so little about the engine/transmission that I'm not sure what all you're talking about...so the best advice for me would be that of a trained Volvo engine mechanic! But I have to tell you that I drained and changed the transmission oil last year when I first bought her and most likely overfilled it. When I check the oil level the oil itself is clear and clean and water-free. I don't leak enough to overflow those dimples and go down the side of the casing. I of course have the drop per 7 seconds thru the stuffing box but that's it. I place one of these engine drip sheets (large tufted cotton piece that I tri-fold) in that trough to easily detect any oil leaks immediately. The water drips roll down it to the bottom of the tray and probably once a week I vac that out and wipe it down. There are no leaks (oil, fuel, etc.) Anything other than really clean shows me there's a change going on. I really don't think I have any water intrusion. I will be changing that oil here in the next month and pay very close attention to water contamination. I will also pay closer attention to the amount of oil I put in and see if this continues. Like I said, several hours of motorsailing in forward didn't result in any leakage...just when I tried to back her into the slip. I have so much to learn. Thanks for your inputs and assistance.
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net
-
D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Is there a vent hole.......
Captain Schnell,
I don't have this transmission, but I was wondering and maybe others can answer the question. Is there a small vent hole on the top surface of the transmission? You said you may have overfilled it, could that possibly result in a very little oil(what you describe) being flung out of the transmission? I've been following this link the last few days, and I was wondering.......your HUMBLE servant......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
with Hurth Transmission
CDSOA Number ONE
Hailing from Noank, CT
I don't have this transmission, but I was wondering and maybe others can answer the question. Is there a small vent hole on the top surface of the transmission? You said you may have overfilled it, could that possibly result in a very little oil(what you describe) being flung out of the transmission? I've been following this link the last few days, and I was wondering.......your HUMBLE servant......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
with Hurth Transmission
CDSOA Number ONE
Hailing from Noank, CT
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Volvo MD7A Transmission Leak
Chris,
You solved the problem! You overfilled the tranny, which is very easy to do considering how little it holds. Once the tranny gets warm, the oil expands considerably and puts pressure on that seal under the transmissions control crank..located on top of the tranny, and directly under the fuel filter. What happens is that seal is shot, and so oil leaks out when the tranny is turning over and hot. It dribbles down into the two little wells and accumulates there. I have that problem also, and it needs to be fixed sometime (far from a critical problem). The whole transmission crank assembly (not sure of the 'official' title of this part, but to clarify, it is the connection point for the shift cable. You move the shift lever, and this cable slides in and out of the shift cable, rotating the transmission crank assembly (or other far more meaningful name), putting the transmission into forward, reverse or neutral. there is about a 1 1/2 in. round seal under this assembly, and that is the part that is leaking. It is mounted with three bolts I believe (hey, it's been 5 long, hard and entirely boring months since I laid eyes on it! heh..). I suspect the fix would be to replace an o ring, although I have not disassembled mine yet.
But that is the problem I would bet! Either that or dribbles from the last fuel system bleeding. Either way, it is not a critical problem, just another repair point for when time is available.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
demers@sgi.com
You solved the problem! You overfilled the tranny, which is very easy to do considering how little it holds. Once the tranny gets warm, the oil expands considerably and puts pressure on that seal under the transmissions control crank..located on top of the tranny, and directly under the fuel filter. What happens is that seal is shot, and so oil leaks out when the tranny is turning over and hot. It dribbles down into the two little wells and accumulates there. I have that problem also, and it needs to be fixed sometime (far from a critical problem). The whole transmission crank assembly (not sure of the 'official' title of this part, but to clarify, it is the connection point for the shift cable. You move the shift lever, and this cable slides in and out of the shift cable, rotating the transmission crank assembly (or other far more meaningful name), putting the transmission into forward, reverse or neutral. there is about a 1 1/2 in. round seal under this assembly, and that is the part that is leaking. It is mounted with three bolts I believe (hey, it's been 5 long, hard and entirely boring months since I laid eyes on it! heh..). I suspect the fix would be to replace an o ring, although I have not disassembled mine yet.
But that is the problem I would bet! Either that or dribbles from the last fuel system bleeding. Either way, it is not a critical problem, just another repair point for when time is available.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Chris Schnell wrote: John and Larry,
Actually I know so little about the engine/transmission that I'm not sure what all you're talking about...so the best advice for me would be that of a trained Volvo engine mechanic! But I have to tell you that I drained and changed the transmission oil last year when I first bought her and most likely overfilled it. When I check the oil level the oil itself is clear and clean and water-free. I don't leak enough to overflow those dimples and go down the side of the casing. I of course have the drop per 7 seconds thru the stuffing box but that's it. I place one of these engine drip sheets (large tufted cotton piece that I tri-fold) in that trough to easily detect any oil leaks immediately. The water drips roll down it to the bottom of the tray and probably once a week I vac that out and wipe it down. There are no leaks (oil, fuel, etc.) Anything other than really clean shows me there's a change going on. I really don't think I have any water intrusion. I will be changing that oil here in the next month and pay very close attention to water contamination. I will also pay closer attention to the amount of oil I put in and see if this continues. Like I said, several hours of motorsailing in forward didn't result in any leakage...just when I tried to back her into the slip. I have so much to learn. Thanks for your inputs and assistance.
Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Is there a vent hole...no, but a leak probably..
Captain Humble,
Hi Dave..no vent hole, but the effect is the same, as I describe in the answer posted in this thread. Over filling the tranny will cause the oil to leak out the shift bell crank seal on top of the tranny, and this leaks into those two little wells..as would bleeding runoff from the primary engine mounted filter.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
Courageous Captain Commanding
DeLaMer
Cape Dory's finest example of their
30 ft. cutter rigged vessels.
Foolin' around on Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
Hi Dave..no vent hole, but the effect is the same, as I describe in the answer posted in this thread. Over filling the tranny will cause the oil to leak out the shift bell crank seal on top of the tranny, and this leaks into those two little wells..as would bleeding runoff from the primary engine mounted filter.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
Courageous Captain Commanding
DeLaMer
Cape Dory's finest example of their
30 ft. cutter rigged vessels.
Foolin' around on Lake Superior
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain Schnell,
I don't have this transmission, but I was wondering and maybe others can answer the question. Is there a small vent hole on the top surface of the transmission? You said you may have overfilled it, could that possibly result in a very little oil(what you describe) being flung out of the transmission? I've been following this link the last few days, and I was wondering.......your HUMBLE servant......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
with Hurth Transmission
CDSOA Number ONE
Hailing from Noank, CT
demers@sgi.com
-
Chris Schnell
Re: Is there a vent hole.......A little levity for the day!
To Larry....you're supposed to vent the fuel line??? Last year I just cleaned and replaced the Raycor (the other fuel filter had just been replaced), filled the bowl w/fresh diesel, tightened it all up, cranked it and took off. Isn't ignorance bliss!!!!
To Captain Commanding Stump...You honor me with the title of Captain but I am but a skipper of a beautiful sailing vessel, and have yet to earn the distinction.
Remember, this is the guy who lopped 8" of his boom last year to allow his 6'5" self to stand upright at the helm w/o loosing his breathing passages. You should see the dodger/transition piece/window/bimini arrangement under which I now stand! I've been teased that it's a stairway to heaven (I'm an old rocker!)
To both of you distinguished gentlemen I must say that I have and will continue to learn much from you both, as well as all the others who contribute on this fine board.
swabbie@compaq.net
To Captain Commanding Stump...You honor me with the title of Captain but I am but a skipper of a beautiful sailing vessel, and have yet to earn the distinction.
Remember, this is the guy who lopped 8" of his boom last year to allow his 6'5" self to stand upright at the helm w/o loosing his breathing passages. You should see the dodger/transition piece/window/bimini arrangement under which I now stand! I've been teased that it's a stairway to heaven (I'm an old rocker!)
To both of you distinguished gentlemen I must say that I have and will continue to learn much from you both, as well as all the others who contribute on this fine board.
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Full Sails & Calm Seas,
Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net