The more I learn, the more I don't know. A friend at the dock has access to JP-8. His question, would it work in a marine diesel engine? Why or why not? I assured him that someone on the CD board would be able to enlighten us. Would adding some to the regular diesel fuel enhance the longevity of the fuel? Or is this a short cut to disaster? Thanks!
majortest@earthlink.net
A Fuelish Question
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Some Captains will do ANYTHING......
Dale,
In all seriousness, there are no fuelish questions raised on this board, we all must learn.
Now Sir, understand that auxillary engines are not allowed in use during the RACE! If the engine is even started, the vessel will disqualify itself. And Sir, using JP-8 fuel(JET FUEL ! !)in your vessels engine will have no advantage over standard diesel. What Sir, are ya tryin' ta do? Bring her up on PLANE? You may have followed the discussions about new sails and smooth bottoms, which are allowed in the RACE, but JET FUEL ? ? ! ! Ah, come on Mate, enough is enough!
OK, back to seriousness - JP-8+100 probably has a different octane rating, and it is less viscous, flows easier than standard diesel. Cold starting may be a little easier, but it may overpressure your engine on start, kinda like using ether as a starting fluid(well, not quite that bad!), not recommended. Besides, isn't JP-8 a hell of a lot more expensive than standard diesel? Hey, Hanalei is equipped with a Universal 18, 14HP diesel. She has a 20 gal. tank. I completley emptied the tank the end of last year and refilled it with new diesel, cost - a little over $20! And I had about 5 gallons of old diesel to take home to use as an assist to light the wood stove all winter long! Naw, Sir, don't even think about using JET FUEL in your auxillary! Besides, dinner doesn't start at Watch Hill until 1830 hours anyhow. Ya don't want to be early(well, no earlier than Hanalei)! Honored Sir, I remain.....your most HUMBLE servant....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! !
In all seriousness, there are no fuelish questions raised on this board, we all must learn.
Now Sir, understand that auxillary engines are not allowed in use during the RACE! If the engine is even started, the vessel will disqualify itself. And Sir, using JP-8 fuel(JET FUEL ! !)in your vessels engine will have no advantage over standard diesel. What Sir, are ya tryin' ta do? Bring her up on PLANE? You may have followed the discussions about new sails and smooth bottoms, which are allowed in the RACE, but JET FUEL ? ? ! ! Ah, come on Mate, enough is enough!
OK, back to seriousness - JP-8+100 probably has a different octane rating, and it is less viscous, flows easier than standard diesel. Cold starting may be a little easier, but it may overpressure your engine on start, kinda like using ether as a starting fluid(well, not quite that bad!), not recommended. Besides, isn't JP-8 a hell of a lot more expensive than standard diesel? Hey, Hanalei is equipped with a Universal 18, 14HP diesel. She has a 20 gal. tank. I completley emptied the tank the end of last year and refilled it with new diesel, cost - a little over $20! And I had about 5 gallons of old diesel to take home to use as an assist to light the wood stove all winter long! Naw, Sir, don't even think about using JET FUEL in your auxillary! Besides, dinner doesn't start at Watch Hill until 1830 hours anyhow. Ya don't want to be early(well, no earlier than Hanalei)! Honored Sir, I remain.....your most HUMBLE servant....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! !
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Leo MacDonald CD33
Engine Ops during RACE
Dave (Captain Commanding, etc., etc.),
I believe, but am not sure, engine running to recharge batteries during a race is allowed.
What say the real racers among us?
Fair Winds,
Leo MacDonald
'Evening Light' CD33
SYC, Groton, CT
macdoreNOSPAM@aol.com
I believe, but am not sure, engine running to recharge batteries during a race is allowed.
What say the real racers among us?
Fair Winds,
Leo MacDonald
'Evening Light' CD33
SYC, Groton, CT
macdoreNOSPAM@aol.com
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Hanalei,
Re: WHAT? ? ? Never heard of....
Captain MacDonald,
NEVER, NEVER heard of such a thing! Remember last year that we DID allow engines to be running, but not in gear, as the fleet sailed through the reef off of Watch Hill. That was an agreed upon SAFETY issue. But, run your engine for any other reason than SAFETY, and you should disqualify yourself! ! Just MHO....
Hanalei
NEVER, NEVER heard of such a thing! Remember last year that we DID allow engines to be running, but not in gear, as the fleet sailed through the reef off of Watch Hill. That was an agreed upon SAFETY issue. But, run your engine for any other reason than SAFETY, and you should disqualify yourself! ! Just MHO....
Hanalei
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Michael Heintz
Engine...what engine.....
Captains MacDonald and Stump,
Who needs jet fuel????? Who needs an engine?????
As we speak, plans are afoot to remove said engine from Racing Sloop Macht Nichts, we will lighten the load and fly like a jet with new sails providing all the horsepower needed to leave you BOTH in the dust, or would that in the splash of my stern wake????????
Michael Heintz
Captain Commanding
RACING SLOOP
Macht Nichts
CD 30 MK II
the real # 1
Fleet Captain Northeast Fleet
Who needs jet fuel????? Who needs an engine?????
As we speak, plans are afoot to remove said engine from Racing Sloop Macht Nichts, we will lighten the load and fly like a jet with new sails providing all the horsepower needed to leave you BOTH in the dust, or would that in the splash of my stern wake????????
Michael Heintz
Captain Commanding
RACING SLOOP
Macht Nichts
CD 30 MK II
the real # 1
Fleet Captain Northeast Fleet
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Don Carr
As long as it is not used for propulsion
Leo, et al; According to the ISAF Racing rules of sailing a boat must be 'propelled' only by sails and wind. Any means of propulsion may be used to perform a resue of boat or person in immenent danger.
The engine running rule for battery charging is generally covered in sailing instructions and usuallly the skipper must inform thre race comittee and log the run time and submit the log post race.
Offshore races usually have the boats transmission locked with a seal by the race organization. At the end of the race the seal is inspected. In this way the engine may be run but not used as propulsion.
Since Capt Stump is race comittee chair he can set the rules in the sailing instructions. BTW...Isn't race comittee chairmen grounds for disqualifying himself from the race??? Maybe he'll do that after 'Evening Light' kicks his a**.
carrds@us.ibm.com
The engine running rule for battery charging is generally covered in sailing instructions and usuallly the skipper must inform thre race comittee and log the run time and submit the log post race.
Offshore races usually have the boats transmission locked with a seal by the race organization. At the end of the race the seal is inspected. In this way the engine may be run but not used as propulsion.
Since Capt Stump is race comittee chair he can set the rules in the sailing instructions. BTW...Isn't race comittee chairmen grounds for disqualifying himself from the race??? Maybe he'll do that after 'Evening Light' kicks his a**.
carrds@us.ibm.com
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Hanalei,
Re: Now, THAT might work ! !
Captain Heintz,
Honored Sir, and must say that you probably have something there! A proper skipper will try to "lighten ship" anyway he can when in pursuit of the leading/winning vessel Hanalei! Why sir, pump your water over the side, roust out and throw overboard anything that doesn't work aboard Macht Nichts('course Sir, you may lose a brother and a wife doing that!). Throw the engine. Throw the cannon, and empty the shot garlands over the side! Throw the bedding, throw the GROG(Uh, wait just a minute there, if ya will throw the GROG, do so as Hanalei pass you to weather), throw the vittles, throw the charts, throw the compass, Hell, throw the wheel overboard also, when adrift and boxing the compass ya doesn't need to steer!. Hanalei will not NEED to lighten ship! ! Although, she will lighten a little as the Captain and crew drink a glass of Port in celebration when arriving at the anchorage in Napatree!
Your Servant Sir, the HUMBLE........
Dave Stump
Captain commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !
Honored Sir, and must say that you probably have something there! A proper skipper will try to "lighten ship" anyway he can when in pursuit of the leading/winning vessel Hanalei! Why sir, pump your water over the side, roust out and throw overboard anything that doesn't work aboard Macht Nichts('course Sir, you may lose a brother and a wife doing that!). Throw the engine. Throw the cannon, and empty the shot garlands over the side! Throw the bedding, throw the GROG(Uh, wait just a minute there, if ya will throw the GROG, do so as Hanalei pass you to weather), throw the vittles, throw the charts, throw the compass, Hell, throw the wheel overboard also, when adrift and boxing the compass ya doesn't need to steer!. Hanalei will not NEED to lighten ship! ! Although, she will lighten a little as the Captain and crew drink a glass of Port in celebration when arriving at the anchorage in Napatree!
Your Servant Sir, the HUMBLE........
Dave Stump
Captain commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE ! ! !
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Michael Heintz
Re: Now, THAT might work ! !
Capyy Stumppy
Too be sure SIR the engine will go before the cannon!!!! And I do need SOME water mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......You may want to polish yur decks ...then I can bounce some waterballons of your topsides!!!!!
Never toss the GROG unless down you throat!!
We have been busy all winter "Chipping our Balls" in anticipation of our meeting this summer!!
Yours.....and all that...
The REAL #1
Fleet Captain Northeast Fleet
Michael Heintz
Racing Sloop
Macht Nichts
CD 30 MK II
Norwalk, CT
Too be sure SIR the engine will go before the cannon!!!! And I do need SOME water mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......You may want to polish yur decks ...then I can bounce some waterballons of your topsides!!!!!
Never toss the GROG unless down you throat!!
We have been busy all winter "Chipping our Balls" in anticipation of our meeting this summer!!
Yours.....and all that...
The REAL #1
Fleet Captain Northeast Fleet
Michael Heintz
Racing Sloop
Macht Nichts
CD 30 MK II
Norwalk, CT
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Catherine Monaghan
Please contact the manufacturer
Dale,
Most diesel engines that burn other than "diesel" fuel were specifically designed to burn the fuels that they've been rated for. Before pouring anything in your fuel tank other than marine or on-road diesel, please play it safe and contact the manufacturer of your diesel engine. In this case, they are the best source of information. If you're not sure of how to contact them, please send me an e-mail (minus the NOSPAM in the address). I have the contact info for many of the marine diesel manufacturers.
Thanks,
Cathy
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
CCDOA Assistant Webmaster
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghanNOSPAM@merck.com
Most diesel engines that burn other than "diesel" fuel were specifically designed to burn the fuels that they've been rated for. Before pouring anything in your fuel tank other than marine or on-road diesel, please play it safe and contact the manufacturer of your diesel engine. In this case, they are the best source of information. If you're not sure of how to contact them, please send me an e-mail (minus the NOSPAM in the address). I have the contact info for many of the marine diesel manufacturers.
Thanks,
Cathy
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
CCDOA Assistant Webmaster
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Dale W. wrote: The more I learn, the more I don't know. A friend at the dock has access to JP-8. His question, would it work in a marine diesel engine? Why or why not? I assured him that someone on the CD board would be able to enlighten us. Would adding some to the regular diesel fuel enhance the longevity of the fuel? Or is this a short cut to disaster? Thanks!
catherine_monaghanNOSPAM@merck.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: A Fuelish Question
This is something that I would not try. While diesels seem capable of running on anything made from hydrocarbon, I suspect that JP8 has too high a flash point for diesel engines, and would cause premature ignition due to it going off before the piston is where it needs to be for the power to be transferred to the shaft. Possible damage to the engine could result from this.
Unless he is getting this stuff free (ie: at midnight, nobody looking), he will pay a lot more for it than plain old diesel, I suspect. So there seems no good reason to try it, and several good ones not to try it. I bet it would run though, if the timing were altered to compensate for the earlier ignition point.
I have found, by the way, that purple diesel (Off-Road) is the best of all the flavors of diesel. It has a greater sulphur content, which cushions the valves, and this does change the timing also..slightly. I try to run a tank of that through each year..or about half of my fuel use. In practice it actually gets pretty well mixed into the new fuel (yellow dyed on-road), so there is some in the tank at all times.
It effects even the sound of the engine..with the off-road fuel, I have a deeper exhaust note, more power, *and* more smoke (I suspect that is valve timing being different with that fuel in place, which causes the engine to smoke a little more). If I didn't have to carry the fuel to the boat in 6 gal. yellow jerry cans, I would be tempted to run on Off Road diesel all the time, and adjust the valves accordingly.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Apostle Islands of Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
Unless he is getting this stuff free (ie: at midnight, nobody looking), he will pay a lot more for it than plain old diesel, I suspect. So there seems no good reason to try it, and several good ones not to try it. I bet it would run though, if the timing were altered to compensate for the earlier ignition point.
I have found, by the way, that purple diesel (Off-Road) is the best of all the flavors of diesel. It has a greater sulphur content, which cushions the valves, and this does change the timing also..slightly. I try to run a tank of that through each year..or about half of my fuel use. In practice it actually gets pretty well mixed into the new fuel (yellow dyed on-road), so there is some in the tank at all times.
It effects even the sound of the engine..with the off-road fuel, I have a deeper exhaust note, more power, *and* more smoke (I suspect that is valve timing being different with that fuel in place, which causes the engine to smoke a little more). If I didn't have to carry the fuel to the boat in 6 gal. yellow jerry cans, I would be tempted to run on Off Road diesel all the time, and adjust the valves accordingly.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Apostle Islands of Lake Superior
Dale W. wrote: The more I learn, the more I don't know. A friend at the dock has access to JP-8. His question, would it work in a marine diesel engine? Why or why not? I assured him that someone on the CD board would be able to enlighten us. Would adding some to the regular diesel fuel enhance the longevity of the fuel? Or is this a short cut to disaster? Thanks!
demers@sgi.com