As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
Bob Grabham
CD36, #140
Hunky Dory
grabhamb@chesterfield.gov
Air Conditioning
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
will paker
Re: Air Conditioning
I have a "Mermaid" air conditioning unit installed on my CD30. I have the "B" plan with no vee berth. The head is located where the Vee berth is normally located. The A/C unit is located in a cabinet in the head. It is water cooled. Draws water from the head intake. Works fine here in South Florida. Of Course it works only at dockside when I can use shore power, but normally at anchor I don't really need it because the breeze is usually sufficient.
Good luck
Will
"Jambalaya"
As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
whildenp@earthlink.net
Good luck
Will
"Jambalaya"
As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
Bob G. wrote: Bob Grabham
CD36, #140
Hunky Dory
whildenp@earthlink.net
-
will paker
Re: Air Conditioning
I have a "Mermaid" air conditioning unit installed on my CD30. I have the "B" plan with no vee berth. The head is located where the Vee berth is normally located. The A/C unit is located in a cabinet in the head. It is water cooled. Draws water from the head intake. Works fine here in South Florida. Of Course it works only at dockside when I can use shore power, but normally at anchor I don't really need it because the breeze is usually sufficient.
Good luck
Will
"Jambalaya"
As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
whildenp@earthlink.net
Good luck
Will
"Jambalaya"
As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
Bob G. wrote: Bob Grabham
CD36, #140
Hunky Dory
whildenp@earthlink.net
-
John R.
A/C
I also have a Mermaid on our CD30. I installed the 6500 BTU unit with heat strip heating capability. In the Florida heat we have here the unit keeps the cabin cool with all hatches, ports etc., closed. A larger unit would have cooled the boat down sooner but the 30 would not accomodate a larger unit. I installed it under the V-berth just aft of the holding tank on a custom made riser shelf. Some small areas of the holding tank retainer chocks molded into the liner had to be modified to fit the unit. Other then that the unit fits perfectly in the space. It is important to use a condensate drip collection pan under the unit. You can purchase them at additional cost or make your own. I made one out of Acrylite (acrylic sheet stock). My A/C has two cooling air supply grills, one is located in the main bulkhead on starboard in the main salon. The other is located in the V-berth. They are connected to the unit with 4" insulated flex duct. Routing duct is a challenge in a boat with limited space. The return air grill to the unit is installed in the V-berth forward kick panel just in front of the unit itself. The unit like all build ins is water cooled. I use a seperate seacock to supply the unit and another to discharge the cooling water. I use a large strainer in the intake line. I use only the Teel brand pumps. They are very small and quietest running I have ever found. I mount them on a closed cell pad to further dampen noise.
I used to be a Mermaid A/C dealer here in Florida. They are very dependable units and their stainless chassis and some components are very beneficial in so far as limiting corossion problems from condensation as time goes on. All built in A/C units have a problem with corossion. All the compressors and condensor coils I have looked at over the years are simply finish painted only. No primers are used on these steel components and they do quickly deteriorate cosmetically if some steps are not taken to slow down or eliminate the problem. I wipe a thin film of Corossion X on the components and spray a light film into crevices and in nooks and crannies to stave off the onset of corossion. Unfortunately that is not enough to nip it in the bud. Eventually the units all start to rust. I removed my unit last year and completely disassembled it, removed all paint and corossion, then primed all components except the stainless pieces with 9 coats of zinc chromate (not zinc phosphate) and five coats of automotive acrylic enamel by Sherwin Williams. This should now last for many years and I expect the unit to wear out before there is new corossion. Careful re-assembly using Lanocote under screw and bolt heads and nuts/washers in addition to using rubber washers and grommets under fasteners to protect breaking through the finish will all help in fighting against corossion onset. The condensation is really a big problem, it seeps into all those locations I described and starts/feeds the corossion process.
A major point of concern is the cooling hose attachment nipples on condensor coils. They can sink your boat if they fail when you are not on board. Those condensor coils are cupro nickel on the inside and steel on the outside! We all know what happens with dissimilar metals in a good electrolyte like saltwater don't we? There are no zincs in A/C units. To make it short the nipples are thin wall cupro tubing brazed onto the ends of the condensor tubing. I don't know what is used in the manufacturing process when they braze those nipples in place but it doesn't last and is prone to failure. that is a very serious situation. If one breaks off or simply leaks badly your A/C pump will pump your boat full of seawater, if it isn't running and the seacock is open it will leak on it's own because the A/C units must be mounted below the waterline.
The condensor coil problem is true with all units I have ever seen, no matter the brand. The coils are not made by the A/C guys, they are mass produced by other manufacturers/suppliers, the same is true for the compressors and evaporators. The coils can be modified to alleviate the risk. When mine started to fail I removed the nipples and and relieved the outside tube slightly. Then I machined out the inside threads of bronze reducing couplers on the small end. Then I brazed with very high (very expensive) silver solder the reducing coupling onto the condensor tubes. This was brazed on both the outside and the inside with very heavy beads of silver. Then I simply used cast bronze hose barbs screwed into the couplers other end for the cooling hoses to connect to. The condensor coil will fail before these connections ever do.
The moral of that short story is never leave a A/C unit running on board when you are not aboard unless you know for absolute certainty the condensor nipples are 100% intact at the brazed joint and there is no chance of them failing!
Also of course is hose condition, double clamping, wiring protection, heat strip fire protection. Those are basically the things you need to be most concerned about.
Installing the units is relatively easy but it does take quite a bit of time. They are well worth the trouble and expense. I intend to purchase a Cruise Air hatch mount portable unit to leave running while at the dock when I'm not on board. My reason is that I don't like leaving seacocks open when off the boat for extended periods. I also don't like the boats AC system being used 'round the clock to power a high load like the A/C in my absence. The Cruise Air can keep the boat relatively cool, reduce humidity around the clock and not depend on any ships systems. It will plug into the dock AC and it does not require cooling water. When onboard just turn on the built in A/C and the boat will be super cooled down.
I can send you pics of the condensor mods I made to my unit, it's drain pan and show where it is located.
Good luck and I do recommend Mermaid units, they are dependable and made of quality components. There are other good units on the market as well but I have had a lot of experience with the Mermaids and I've seen many in the field hold up very well over the years.
talled on my CD30. I have the "B" plan with no vee berth. The head is located where the Vee berth is normally located. The A/C unit is located in a cabinet in the head. It is water cooled. Draws water from the head intake. Works fine here in South Florida. Of Course it works only at dockside when I can use shore power, but normally at anchor I don't really need it because the breeze is usually sufficient.
I used to be a Mermaid A/C dealer here in Florida. They are very dependable units and their stainless chassis and some components are very beneficial in so far as limiting corossion problems from condensation as time goes on. All built in A/C units have a problem with corossion. All the compressors and condensor coils I have looked at over the years are simply finish painted only. No primers are used on these steel components and they do quickly deteriorate cosmetically if some steps are not taken to slow down or eliminate the problem. I wipe a thin film of Corossion X on the components and spray a light film into crevices and in nooks and crannies to stave off the onset of corossion. Unfortunately that is not enough to nip it in the bud. Eventually the units all start to rust. I removed my unit last year and completely disassembled it, removed all paint and corossion, then primed all components except the stainless pieces with 9 coats of zinc chromate (not zinc phosphate) and five coats of automotive acrylic enamel by Sherwin Williams. This should now last for many years and I expect the unit to wear out before there is new corossion. Careful re-assembly using Lanocote under screw and bolt heads and nuts/washers in addition to using rubber washers and grommets under fasteners to protect breaking through the finish will all help in fighting against corossion onset. The condensation is really a big problem, it seeps into all those locations I described and starts/feeds the corossion process.
A major point of concern is the cooling hose attachment nipples on condensor coils. They can sink your boat if they fail when you are not on board. Those condensor coils are cupro nickel on the inside and steel on the outside! We all know what happens with dissimilar metals in a good electrolyte like saltwater don't we? There are no zincs in A/C units. To make it short the nipples are thin wall cupro tubing brazed onto the ends of the condensor tubing. I don't know what is used in the manufacturing process when they braze those nipples in place but it doesn't last and is prone to failure. that is a very serious situation. If one breaks off or simply leaks badly your A/C pump will pump your boat full of seawater, if it isn't running and the seacock is open it will leak on it's own because the A/C units must be mounted below the waterline.
The condensor coil problem is true with all units I have ever seen, no matter the brand. The coils are not made by the A/C guys, they are mass produced by other manufacturers/suppliers, the same is true for the compressors and evaporators. The coils can be modified to alleviate the risk. When mine started to fail I removed the nipples and and relieved the outside tube slightly. Then I machined out the inside threads of bronze reducing couplers on the small end. Then I brazed with very high (very expensive) silver solder the reducing coupling onto the condensor tubes. This was brazed on both the outside and the inside with very heavy beads of silver. Then I simply used cast bronze hose barbs screwed into the couplers other end for the cooling hoses to connect to. The condensor coil will fail before these connections ever do.
The moral of that short story is never leave a A/C unit running on board when you are not aboard unless you know for absolute certainty the condensor nipples are 100% intact at the brazed joint and there is no chance of them failing!
Also of course is hose condition, double clamping, wiring protection, heat strip fire protection. Those are basically the things you need to be most concerned about.
Installing the units is relatively easy but it does take quite a bit of time. They are well worth the trouble and expense. I intend to purchase a Cruise Air hatch mount portable unit to leave running while at the dock when I'm not on board. My reason is that I don't like leaving seacocks open when off the boat for extended periods. I also don't like the boats AC system being used 'round the clock to power a high load like the A/C in my absence. The Cruise Air can keep the boat relatively cool, reduce humidity around the clock and not depend on any ships systems. It will plug into the dock AC and it does not require cooling water. When onboard just turn on the built in A/C and the boat will be super cooled down.
I can send you pics of the condensor mods I made to my unit, it's drain pan and show where it is located.
Good luck and I do recommend Mermaid units, they are dependable and made of quality components. There are other good units on the market as well but I have had a lot of experience with the Mermaids and I've seen many in the field hold up very well over the years.
talled on my CD30. I have the "B" plan with no vee berth. The head is located where the Vee berth is normally located. The A/C unit is located in a cabinet in the head. It is water cooled. Draws water from the head intake. Works fine here in South Florida. Of Course it works only at dockside when I can use shore power, but normally at anchor I don't really need it because the breeze is usually sufficient.
will paker wrote: Good luck
Will
"Jambalaya"
As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
Bob G. wrote: Bob Grabham
CD36, #140
Hunky Dory
-
matt cawthorne
Re: Air Conditioning
Bob,
My 36 had a cruisair unit installed on it when I bought it. The basic unit is installed under the setee just in front of the galley sink. There is some sort of electrical box that is installed under the sink that is about 1/2 the size of a shoebox. The water pump and strainer are installed under the port setee just forward of that setee's water tank. If you sleep in the main cabin, that puts the unit directly under your head. Not so good for sleep. It works well on the Chesapeake. Perhaps you can come and see it if you are interested. The boat is in Rock Hall.
BTW, a non-CD neighbor of mine bought a mermaid unit in Florida and found it had problems on the Chesapeake. One day it had not cooled the boat after 8 hours of running. I helped him sort the problem out and found that the evaporator was completely blocked with ice. I have never had the problem, and suspect that the compressor was too large for the evaporator/fan combination. The solution was to turn it off for a while and try again. Not much fun. Perhaps if you buy a unit you might bring the subject up with the salesman.
Matt
A non
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
My 36 had a cruisair unit installed on it when I bought it. The basic unit is installed under the setee just in front of the galley sink. There is some sort of electrical box that is installed under the sink that is about 1/2 the size of a shoebox. The water pump and strainer are installed under the port setee just forward of that setee's water tank. If you sleep in the main cabin, that puts the unit directly under your head. Not so good for sleep. It works well on the Chesapeake. Perhaps you can come and see it if you are interested. The boat is in Rock Hall.
BTW, a non-CD neighbor of mine bought a mermaid unit in Florida and found it had problems on the Chesapeake. One day it had not cooled the boat after 8 hours of running. I helped him sort the problem out and found that the evaporator was completely blocked with ice. I have never had the problem, and suspect that the compressor was too large for the evaporator/fan combination. The solution was to turn it off for a while and try again. Not much fun. Perhaps if you buy a unit you might bring the subject up with the salesman.
Matt
A non
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
Carl Jones
Re: Air Conditioning
Bob,Bob G. wrote: As the long winter layup drags on I find myself dreaming of those warm days on the Chesapeake. Warm days are great but some of you know how hot it can get on the Chesapeake in the real summertime. Hence, my question. Has anyone installed air conditioning on a CD36 (or any CD for that matter)? I'm inclined to go with a permanent installation versus a Cruise Air or similar portable. I've checked the archives and can't really find anything useful. If anyone has installed a permanent unit, where did you put it? How about a split unit? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for the responses.
Bob Grabham
CD36, #140
Hunky Dory
I have a 12,000 BTU cool only unit made by MarineAir on my CD30. I installed it in the wet locker behind the head and ran a duct through the forward bulkhead into the forward cabin and one through the after bulkhead into the main saloon. It was the largest unit I could get into the space available. Don't need heat down here in Texas. The stove is enough for that. If I had bought an air and heat unit (heat pump), it would have been larger, and I would have had to settle for fewer BTU's of cooling. Make sure you get a unit a little bigger than you think you need. When its 100F in August with 95% humidity, you will need it all. Also, more capacity lets you cool down quicker, and that is much appreciated on a hot day.
This is not a split unit, it is all self contained. The split units were more expensive and I didn't want to add any more weight to the stern of the boat, plus on my boat this unit sufficed. On your CD36, it may be more practical. BTW, my unit is not mounted below the waterline, as stated in a previous post. It has a pump which is installed below the waterline, but it feeds the unit, which is above the waterline.
This has been one of the best improvements I made, and it works great, blankets required. Good luck with yours.
Carl Jones
Spanish Eyes, CD30
GreatCells@aol.com