Cleaning Diesel Tanks

[Duncan Maio]

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI



mail@mysticmarine.net

[Larry DeMers]

He's not likely to be satisfied with the results if he is not able to physicly disturb the bacterial growth on the walls and bottom..and believe me, there will be several cups worth, even in a well cared for tank. Can he get tot he fill hole, and snake a tube down in the tank? If so, he can make a great stab at it, with a good chance of getting most of the black stuff. Here are a couple ideas I have used in one form or another:
Drain all fuel, then obtain a fuel rated vane pump, and draw fresh diesel from a tank and pump it down a hose with a restricted nozzle fitted to the end (crimped copper tubing will do nicely)..move the hose around some to try and reach different areas of the tank. Immediately draw out the fuel completely again, and repeat with another thorough washing of the tank, followed by removing the old fuel before the suspended grunge has a chance to resettle out again.
I would use around a gallon per flush. One I did on a Baba 30 took 30 gallons before the tank was clean enough to stop. Yours may take that much too, but the investment is worth it in reliability. You're 75% done cleaning now. Next is to remove the fuel line and return line from the tank, follow them to their attachments at the engines return gallery and at the fuel filters input. Disconnect them here too, and lead the ends to a collection jar, located in a safe place. You're going to flush these lines out with clean diesel and see what comes out. If they are really dirty, the best thing to do is get new ones. This step is needed because next to the tank bottom, the input hose is the next best place for dead bugs (black gooey sludge)to accumulate, followed by the filter intake gallery. I actually took kerosene to the filter head one time, and boy does that clean it out!

Ok, next, refill the tanks, using a good dose of biocide and waterzorb to start out with. You should start out with clean filters and new media for them. Bleed the fuel system and the low pressure side of the inj. pump, and you should be ready to go. Double check the filter media in 1-2 months and see what kind of stuff is accumulating on it. It there are still black bugs (dead bacteria)showing up, the problem is not quite finished yet, and you may need to drain the tank and clean some more in a while. It would almost be worth it to cut an access hole to get to the tanks cleanout ports, it seems.

Good Luck to your friend,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

demers@sgi.com

[Kevin LeMans]

I had my tank cleaned by a guy with pressure equipment - basically the approach Larry discussed. He removed the fuel gauge to get access into the tank.

I'm not that impressed with the results. In spite of the pressure washing, and subsequent use of biocide, I still get a dark grey coating on the element of my Racor 200 pre-filter after a year of use (probably only four or five tanks of fuel).

Unless you take the tank out of the boat and go at it with chemicals, I doubt you will completely eliminate the "bugs" as Larry call them.

Good Luck,

Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

lemans@gte.net

[JP]

tell your friend to pull the tanks and have them professionally cleaned. He will NEVER get it completely cleaned himself. Worse headaches down the line. Replace all filters, hoses, fillers, and fuel lines while at it (don't forget the vent line)
a year from now he won't remember the expense, and he'll have many years of trouble free tanks ahead of him ( provided he uses proper "tankmanship" practices - see Calder et al for that)
G'luk
JP

[Tom]

After meticulous care with Biobor, keeping the tank full, runing the engine at least once a month and usually oftener, I had to have my fuel "polished" by the pros two summer ago. They removed the fuel guage for access and they have a set up like those carpet cleaners, or your dentist has when he drills teeth. An exhaust line is put in the bottom of the tank then the pressure side is put in and starts squirting your diesel through their pumps. They have a whole rack of filters in line where they can see the fuel passing through. For an hour they recirculated the fuel round and round through the filters. Sucking from the bottom and shooting up against the sides etc while we rocked the boat as violently as possible for an hour to keep the contaminants suspended. Finally it started to look completely clear like new diesel. You could see the guck in the filters. I don't have the maintenance log with me here at home, but it seems to me this cost a little over $ 100 and took about an hour after getting set up. You just keep going till it gets clear however long it takes. High pressure nozzles that they can point this way and that and special non-spark high pressure pumps and so on. Not something you can rig up yourself very easialy, but there might be some gems in there to consider.

Good luck. Don't feel bad, even with meticulous care algae grows and sometimes you get it from the fuel dock tanks because they have the same problem expecially if it's not a busy dock. You want to go to the busy dock where they are pumping all the time and not to fuel docks where they get an occassional customer and the fuel sits.

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Larry DeMers]

Kevin,

I wonder if you changed out the hoses (both fuel line and return line)when the tank was cleaned? If not, that may be where you should look next. The tank may be very clean, but I found tremendous resevoirs of black tar in the hose (fuel line hose) and in the Racor filter's top dome where the nipple came into the case. The resevoir of black bugs gets dilluted by the fuel passing by, accumulating on the filter media. The grey look is simply a lower count of black specs..as they accumulate, the filter will turn darker grey. Check the interior surfaces of the filter body, as there may be a large colony of dead bugs there too..it will look like black tar..sometimes shiny looking.

In frustration with never having a dead bug free system, I installed a fuel scrubber bypass to my fuel system, using a truck fuel pump (generic brand replacement pump good for 35 GPH or more) pumping thru my first of two primary filters setup with a large surface area 10 micron filter/water separator (Racor Large Spinning water sep. with Filter). This flow is diverted back to the tank via the engines return fuel hose, setup with a 2 way valve to prevent feeding back to the engines return gallery. This is allowed to run for an hour every few weeks, while under dock power for recharging the load used from the battery bank. Usually, it is while we are loading the boat up after arriving. Simple easy way to keep the tank clean from water and bugs. The 10 micron filter media is cheap enough to make this almost painless..and it still takes out any water in the fuel via the spinning separator which tosses water droplets to the side, hitting the glass and falling to the bottom of the filters body, where there is a large drain valve, easy to get to and use.

I can go 2 years between changes for the 1 micron Fram Black Beauty filter which follows the Racor filter. It seems to stay clean enough even then, but I change it on principal more than need..1 year seems long enough.

Diesels are simple things really..just need to present clean air, clean fuel and sufficient compression. Therein lies the rub..

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

I had my tank cleaned by a guy with pressure equipment - basically the approach Larry discussed. He removed the fuel gauge to get access into the tank.

I'm not that impressed with the results. In spite of the pressure washing, and subsequent use of biocide, I still get a dark grey coating on the element of my Racor 200 pre-filter after a year of use (probably only four or five tanks of fuel).

Unless you take the tank out of the boat and go at it with chemicals, I doubt you will completely eliminate the "bugs" as Larry call them.

Good Luck,

Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

This is precisely why I recommend highly, installing a scrubber system in your boats engine compartment, that can scrub the fuel for an hour or two every few weeks, while you are on dock power for recharging purposes. This keeps the fuel filtered and free of water or bugs (bacteria actually, not algae). See my post earlier in this thread if interested. It will cost you around $60 for the pump, and another $35 for the valves. Then you can do it for ever more, costing only the cost of your first filter media (less than $10 on the Racor).

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

After meticulous care with Biobor, keeping the tank full, runing the engine at least once a month and usually oftener, I had to have my fuel "polished" by the pros two summer ago. They removed the fuel guage for access and they have a set up like those carpet cleaners, or your dentist has when he drills teeth. An exhaust line is put in the bottom of the tank then the pressure side is put in and starts squirting your diesel through their pumps. They have a whole rack of filters in line where they can see the fuel passing through. For an hour they recirculated the fuel round and round through the filters. Sucking from the bottom and shooting up against the sides etc while we rocked the boat as violently as possible for an hour to keep the contaminants suspended. Finally it started to look completely clear like new diesel. You could see the guck in the filters. I don't have the maintenance log with me here at home, but it seems to me this cost a little over $ 100 and took about an hour after getting set up. You just keep going till it gets clear however long it takes. High pressure nozzles that they can point this way and that and special non-spark high pressure pumps and so on. Not something you can rig up yourself very easialy, but there might be some gems in there to consider.

Good luck. Don't feel bad, even with meticulous care algae grows and sometimes you get it from the fuel dock tanks because they have the same problem expecially if it's not a busy dock. You want to go to the busy dock where they are pumping all the time and not to fuel docks where they get an occassional customer and the fuel sits.

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

This is precisely why I recommend highly, installing a scrubber system in your boats engine compartment, that can scrub the fuel for an hour or two every few weeks, while you are on dock power for recharging purposes. This keeps the fuel filtered and free of water or bugs (bacteria actually, not algae). See my post earlier in this thread if interested. It will cost you around $60 for the pump, and another $35 for the valves. Then you can do it for ever more, costing only the cost of your first filter media (less than $10 on the Racor).

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

After meticulous care with Biobor, keeping the tank full, runing the engine at least once a month and usually oftener, I had to have my fuel "polished" by the pros two summer ago. They removed the fuel guage for access and they have a set up like those carpet cleaners, or your dentist has when he drills teeth. An exhaust line is put in the bottom of the tank then the pressure side is put in and starts squirting your diesel through their pumps. They have a whole rack of filters in line where they can see the fuel passing through. For an hour they recirculated the fuel round and round through the filters. Sucking from the bottom and shooting up against the sides etc while we rocked the boat as violently as possible for an hour to keep the contaminants suspended. Finally it started to look completely clear like new diesel. You could see the guck in the filters. I don't have the maintenance log with me here at home, but it seems to me this cost a little over $ 100 and took about an hour after getting set up. You just keep going till it gets clear however long it takes. High pressure nozzles that they can point this way and that and special non-spark high pressure pumps and so on. Not something you can rig up yourself very easialy, but there might be some gems in there to consider.

Good luck. Don't feel bad, even with meticulous care algae grows and sometimes you get it from the fuel dock tanks because they have the same problem expecially if it's not a busy dock. You want to go to the busy dock where they are pumping all the time and not to fuel docks where they get an occassional customer and the fuel sits.

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Larry, I see no reason for going to all the complicated valves, pump, etc., when all you need is an Algae X unit, no moving parts, just install it inline after a Racor or similar. They work and the Coast Guard has been using them for quite some time now and so has many industrial users. I paid $100 for mine at Boat U.S. to handle the fuel demands of the Volvo MD7A in our 30. Measures about 1"x2"x3", made of anodized aluminum. It breaks down contaminants to a sub micron size that easily passes through a fuel distributor and the particles are then burned during combustion and never return to the tank , this process is constant and eventually clears the tank and fuel of contaminants and sludge.

This is precisely why I recommend highly, installing a scrubber system in your boats engine compartment, that can scrub the fuel for an hour or two every few weeks, while you are on dock power for recharging purposes. This keeps the fuel filtered and free of water or bugs (bacteria actually, not algae). See my post earlier in this thread if interested. It will cost you around $60 for the pump, and another $35 for the valves. Then you can do it for ever more, costing only the cost of your first filter media (less than $10 on the Racor).

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

After meticulous care with Biobor, keeping the tank full, runing the engine at least once a month and usually oftener, I had to have my fuel "polished" by the pros two summer ago. They removed the fuel guage for access and they have a set up like those carpet cleaners, or your dentist has when he drills teeth. An exhaust line is put in the bottom of the tank then the pressure side is put in and starts squirting your diesel through their pumps. They have a whole rack of filters in line where they can see the fuel passing through. For an hour they recirculated the fuel round and round through the filters. Sucking from the bottom and shooting up against the sides etc while we rocked the boat as violently as possible for an hour to keep the contaminants suspended. Finally it started to look completely clear like new diesel. You could see the guck in the filters. I don't have the maintenance log with me here at home, but it seems to me this cost a little over $ 100 and took about an hour after getting set up. You just keep going till it gets clear however long it takes. High pressure nozzles that they can point this way and that and special non-spark high pressure pumps and so on. Not something you can rig up yourself very easialy, but there might be some gems in there to consider.

Good luck. Don't feel bad, even with meticulous care algae grows and sometimes you get it from the fuel dock tanks because they have the same problem expecially if it's not a busy dock. You want to go to the busy dock where they are pumping all the time and not to fuel docks where they get an occassional customer and the fuel sits.

A friend with a non-CD (but a cool boat nonetheless - a Tyler 33) has crud in his fuel tanks and can't get to the inspection hatches. He is going to drain the tanks this weekend and try to clean them.

Any good tricks out there for cleaning tanks where you can't see?

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI

[Bob Loewenstein]

Does anyone else have a longterm experience with Algae-X? I ask this because I went to their website and read the "theory of operation" and "why bacteria hate magnets."

Nothing is said about breaking the contaminants down to 1micron, but rather that they are killed (I assume they could disintegrate...).

Reading these articles remind me of late night snake oil salesmen. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I am saying that the salespitch is awfully suspicious.

Here's something I found on How Algae-X works:

The principle is induction, the process of transferring the energy of motion (kinetic energy) into electric energy by means of magnetic field.  Algae-X provides a powerful magnetic treatment chamber.  Induction affects the fuel with suspended microbes and particles passing through the unit.

Microbes are very small one-cell organisms, a membrane filled with cellular fluid and electrolytes.  Their metabolism and reproduction depends on an electric balance over the cell membrane.  Any disturbance of this delicate balance is detrimental to the cell's life sustaining functions.  The induced electric charges, which occur as fuel passes through the Algae-X unit, disrupt the functionality of the cell, preventing its metabolic and reproductive processes and the resultant biodegradation of the fuel that forms solids.

Induction also reverses the formation of these solids by re-dissolving agglomeration of paraffin, asphaltenes and other contaminants.  These results are:

*  improved combustion
*  longer filter life
*  clean fuel systems

[Larry DeMers]

John,

First let me say that I respect your opinion, and experience. But on Algae-X, there is an overwhelming amount of information available about them on the USENET newsgroup rec.boats.cruising, including how they have failed to show that they work to the US Gov. in a court case that was just settled. The parent company lost because they could not prove that the magnets actually do anything but bilk innocent people of their money.

Scientificly, magnetic forces of the strength you are suggesting do exist..in MRI's and other electro-magnets of large size, where technology can create a huge magnetic field.
These are simple cobalt permanent magnets I believe in the Algae-X units. They do nothing at all to the fuel. The Problem in the fuel stems from Bacteriological growth..NOT algae. SO even the name is a misnomer and causes confusion.
As far as the Navy using them goes..read about the Navy's participation in the rec.boats.cruising threads..there are hundreds. The Navy agreed to test it on a couple boats. They found it did nothing and did not place them on any other boats. In response to the claims of the manufacture, they apparently issued a press release stating these claims were incorrect. Again, my source of information is entirely from the discussions on the USENET group.
Familiarity with science tells me that a permanent magnet just cannot do what these guys claim..not if you had 100 piled on top of each other. Especially the part about the magnetic fields "breaking the contaminants down to submicron size". An *Alternating* strong magnetic field may indeed damage cellular walls, as farmers have indeed found out from their cattle that live under power lines. But a constant,weak, non-alternating magnetic field.. cannot do anything like that.
By the way, while the outside shell of the device may be aluminum, the magnetic part will be iron I suspect..and that will rust in salt air unless it's encapsulated.

Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry, I see no reason for going to all the complicated valves, pump, etc., when all you need is an Algae X unit, no moving parts, just install it inline after a Racor or similar. They work and the Coast Guard has been using them for quite some time now and so has many industrial users. I paid $100 for mine at Boat U.S. to handle the fuel demands of the Volvo MD7A in our 30. Measures about 1"x2"x3", made of anodized aluminum. It breaks down contaminants to a sub micron size that easily passes through a fuel distributor and the particles are then burned during combustion and never return to the tank , this process is constant and eventually clears the tank and fuel of contaminants and sludge.

This is precisely why I recommend highly, installing a scrubber system in your boats engine compartment, that can scrub the fuel for an hour or two every few weeks, while you are on dock power for recharging purposes. This keeps the fuel filtered and free of water or bugs (bacteria actually, not algae). See my post earlier in this thread if interested. It will cost you around $60 for the pump, and another $35 for the valves. Then you can do it for ever more, costing only the cost of your first filter media (less than $10 on the Racor).

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

After meticulous care with Biobor, keeping the tank full, runing the engine at least once a month and usually oftener, I had to have my fuel "polished" by the pros two summer ago. They removed the fuel guage for access and they have a set up like those carpet cleaners, or your dentist has when he drills teeth. An exhaust line is put in the bottom of the tank then the pressure side is put in and starts squirting your diesel through their pumps. They have a whole rack of filters in line where they can see the fuel passing through. For an hour they recirculated the fuel round and round through the filters. Sucking from the bottom and shooting up against the sides etc while we rocked the boat as violently as possible for an hour to keep the contaminants suspended. Finally it started to look completely clear like new diesel. You could see the guck in the filters. I don't have the maintenance log with me here at home, but it seems to me this cost a little over $ 100 and took about an hour after getting set up. You just keep going till it gets clear however long it takes. High pressure nozzles that they can point this way and that and special non-spark high pressure pumps and so on. Not something you can rig up yourself very easialy, but there might be some gems in there to consider.

Good luck. Don't feel bad, even with meticulous care algae grows and sometimes you get it from the fuel dock tanks because they have the same problem expecially if it's not a busy dock. You want to go to the busy dock where they are pumping all the time and not to fuel docks where they get an occassional customer and the fuel sits.

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Hi Larry,

Likewise about the respect, etc., and let me say I've never visited rec.boats on USENET but I'll take your word regarding info posted there that you've referenced. I'm not a scientist and not a lawyer (thankfully in both cases) and I can't validate nor invalidate any of the claims or statements posted on USENET and I fully understand you are reading information posted by others so I don't take your comments as your own personal experience and appreciate that you have expressed the views made by others. I can say factually that I have seen firsthand the difference those units make. They do work, at least on the smaller engines and tanks I've seen them installed on. I first saw a unit on a marina managers C&C Landfall running a Westerbeke. He had been having continuous algae (bacteria) florishes in his fuel system aside from the use of biocides like Bio-bor and water absorbers, dual stage Racor and clean fuel from his own marina tanks. Like you and Bob and probably many others I was just as skeptical about the unit. Magnets? It sounded ridiculous. I was made a believer after I saw a Hunter 34 at the marina install one at the advice of the guy with the C&C. Same result after several hours of running, cleaner, clearer fuel and reduced smoking. This was about ten days later after he installed the unit. The C&C eventually stopped using a set of new Racor filters every couple weeks. I was invited to view the inspection bowls in the C&C one day when a bunch of us were hanging around and discussing his fuel problems and we started joking about the A-X unit. The bowls were spotless, fuel appeared crystal clear. The boat started beautifully and ran smoothly. The Hunter owner had similar results but sooner then the C&C. His smoking problem (white) also cleared up. I assume the Hunter had quicker results because of his smaller fuel capacity so had faster turnover of the tank contents.

As a result I purchased and installed the unit in our 30. The fuel is very clean, I still add Bio-bor (habit I guess). The boat has been sitting for a long time while I've been doing a refit and the fuel still burns clean, engine starts everytime, first time, no smoke and I have never cleaned the tank. The Racor on board is extremely clean and I would have made at least one filter change by now had the system been without the A-X.

I can't get into a discussion about different types of magnets or the effects of magnets on cows, I'm not accomplished in either field that practices or studies those issues. Although, there is a little magnet in my boat and in others that is working.

As for algae vs bacteria as far as my memory serves from biology classes many moons ago they are both single celled organisms and bacteria was classified as infectious and algae had something to do with aquatic sources. Maybe a scientist could set us straight on the factual differences, I surely don't know the absolute difference.

Perhaps my choice of words regarding "submicron size" was too assuming and I should have just said decomposes matter to infinitely tiny particulate. I don't mean to be sarcastic I'm just trying to point out my intent of the description.

The magnetic area of the A-X unit is completely sealed off from any air or direct fuel contact. It is centrally located inside the unit and is sealed off by a o-ring seal. It won't rust from any type of salt exposure as it is designed.

Bob's page that he links to is superb. There is more info there then I could ever possibly explain. As you will see from reading their information regarding magnets and fuel the size of the magnet has little if anything to do with it. There are effects taking place utilizing kinetic and magnetic forces affecting electrons of the fuel and particulates. Go to the link below to read about it, maybe you or someone else will understand it all. I sure as hell don't. I know all I need to know as a boater, it works for me.

You might want to call A-X folks direct. The fella that designed and patented the thing is very knowledgable and loves to discuss the product and how it works and is very helpful in answering questions and discussing diesel, cleaning processes, chemistry, etc. I think you would be impressed after speaking with them.

John,

First let me say that I respect your opinion, and experience. But on Algae-X, there is an overwhelming amount of information available about them on the USENET newsgroup rec.boats.cruising, including how they have failed to show that they work to the US Gov. in a court case that was just settled. The parent company lost because they could not prove that the magnets actually do anything but bilk innocent people of their money.

Scientificly, magnetic forces of the strength you are suggesting do exist..in MRI's and other electro-magnets of large size, where technology can create a huge magnetic field.
These are simple cobalt permanent magnets I believe in the Algae-X units. They do nothing at all to the fuel. The Problem in the fuel stems from Bacteriological growth..NOT algae. SO even the name is a misnomer and causes confusion.
As far as the Navy using them goes..read about the Navy's participation in the rec.boats.cruising threads..there are hundreds. The Navy agreed to test it on a couple boats. They found it did nothing and did not place them on any other boats. In response to the claims of the manufacture, they apparently issued a press release stating these claims were incorrect. Again, my source of information is entirely from the discussions on the USENET group.
Familiarity with science tells me that a permanent magnet just cannot do what these guys claim..not if you had 100 piled on top of each other. Especially the part about the magnetic fields "breaking the contaminants down to submicron size". An *Alternating* strong magnetic field may indeed damage cellular walls, as farmers have indeed found out from their cattle that live under power lines. But a constant,weak, non-alternating magnetic field.. cannot do anything like that.
By the way, while the outside shell of the device may be aluminum, the magnetic part will be iron I suspect..and that will rust in salt air unless it's encapsulated.

Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry, I see no reason for going to all the complicated valves, pump, etc., when all you need is an Algae X unit, no moving parts, just install it inline after a Racor or similar. They work and the Coast Guard has been using them for quite some time now and so has many industrial users. I paid $100 for mine at Boat U.S. to handle the fuel demands of the Volvo MD7A in our 30. Measures about 1"x2"x3", made of anodized aluminum. It breaks down contaminants to a sub micron size that easily passes through a fuel distributor and the particles are then burned during combustion and never return to the tank , this process is constant and eventually clears the tank and fuel of contaminants and sludge.

This is precisely why I recommend highly, installing a scrubber system in your boats engine compartment, that can scrub the fuel for an hour or two every few weeks, while you are on dock power for recharging purposes. This keeps the fuel filtered and free of water or bugs (bacteria actually, not algae). See my post earlier in this thread if interested. It will cost you around $60 for the pump, and another $35 for the valves. Then you can do it for ever more, costing only the cost of your first filter media (less than $10 on the Racor).

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

[Larry DeMers]

Talk about double-tech-talk! Jeesh. Thinking about it..if a non-alternating magnetic field is able to kill bacteria, why are they not using this treatment in Doctors offices to kill bacteria on instruments?
Electricly speaking, energy from a magnetic field is imparted to another device (or if you believe the claims -cellular structures) by forcing the lines of magnetism to cross over/thru a conductor. A current is setup in the conductor during the time that this field is cutting thru the conductor..ie: it has to be a moving field, or the conductor has to be moving, in order to cut through more than a single line of magnetism.
What I cannot see, and apparently the Navy could not see either..and the FTC cannot see apparently, either, are how a single celled creature like a bacterium can be considered a 'conductor' for purposes of being subject to electrical currents thru induction. THe current has to be "induced" into the cell itself, and this is not a measureable event obviously.
So for the sake of *not* being called charlatains and cheats, would the manufacture of these toys not produce photos of before and after effects on a bacterium, as seen with a microscope? This would be an elimental proof that their device actually does something other than bilk innocently naive people of their money. But i have never seen any proof of any kind..just doubletalk and irrelevant technical jargon disquising the real truth.

My advice, drawn from 35 years boating, 35 years as an Electrical Engineer designing clock systems and I/O systems for supercomputers, and a person who enjoys new gadgets and ideas immensely, is to save your $100 for something useful and known..at least until a higher quality proof of the truth in their advertising is evident. Some proof that their devices actually do work. So far..nothing has been submitted to any independant scientific group at all. So far, they seem to have used a lot of hype and false claims, breathless users reports about how wonderful the device is.."look, I have no more problems", but no very standard, properly controlled, double blind experiments with a control and a victim to determine the validity of the manufactures claims.

Sorry, but this is a device that sounds good..too good, and there is no provided proof that it does what it claims, and a monstrously huge pile of evidence that it cannot do what they claim. It's kind of like when I was a teenager, and we wore a thin braded leather band around our wrists. When someone would ask what that band was, we would answer that it was a 'Bear Scare'...see it works, I would say..there are no bears around!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior

Does anyone else have a longterm experience with Algae-X? I ask this because I went to their website and read the "theory of operation" and "why bacteria hate magnets."

Nothing is said about breaking the contaminants down to 1micron, but rather that they are killed (I assume they could disintegrate...).

Reading these articles remind me of late night snake oil salesmen. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I am saying that the salespitch is awfully suspicious.

Here's something I found on How Algae-X works:

The principle is induction, the process of transferring the energy of motion (kinetic energy) into electric energy by means of magnetic field. Algae-X provides a powerful magnetic treatment chamber. Induction affects the fuel with suspended microbes and particles passing through the unit.

Microbes are very small one-cell organisms, a membrane filled with cellular fluid and electrolytes. Their metabolism and reproduction depends on an electric balance over the cell membrane. Any disturbance of this delicate balance is detrimental to the cell's life sustaining functions. The induced electric charges, which occur as fuel passes through the Algae-X unit, disrupt the functionality of the cell, preventing its metabolic and reproductive processes and the resultant biodegradation of the fuel that forms solids.

Induction also reverses the formation of these solids by re-dissolving agglomeration of paraffin, asphaltenes and other contaminants. These results are:

* improved combustion
* longer filter life
* clean fuel systems

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Maybe you should call and discuss the matter with the owner of A-X or the folks at Pecuniary. They would be in more of a position to discuss the unit from a scientific standpoint I would think. I and other owners can only comment from an actual user and witness standpoint in a "breathless" manner.



Talk about double-tech-talk! Jeesh. Thinking about it..if a non-alternating magnetic field is able to kill bacteria, why are they not using this treatment in Doctors offices to kill bacteria on instruments?

Electricly speaking, energy from a magnetic field is imparted to another device (or if you believe the claims -cellular structures) by forcing the lines of magnetism to cross over/thru a conductor. A current is setup in the conductor during the time that this field is cutting thru the conductor..ie: it has to be a moving field, or the conductor has to be moving, in order to cut through more than a single line of magnetism.
What I cannot see, and apparently the Navy could not see either..and the FTC cannot see apparently, either, are how a single celled creature like a bacterium can be considered a 'conductor' for purposes of being subject to electrical currents thru induction. THe current has to be "induced" into the cell itself, and this is not a measureable event obviously.
So for the sake of *not* being called charlatains and cheats, would the manufacture of these toys not produce photos of before and after effects on a bacterium, as seen with a microscope? This would be an elimental proof that their device actually does something other than bilk innocently naive people of their money. But i have never seen any proof of any kind..just doubletalk and irrelevant technical jargon disquising the real truth.

My advice, drawn from 35 years boating, 35 years as an Electrical Engineer designing clock systems and I/O systems for supercomputers, and a person who enjoys new gadgets and ideas immensely, is to save your $100 for something useful and known..at least until a higher quality proof of the truth in their advertising is evident. Some proof that their devices actually do work. So far..nothing has been submitted to any independant scientific group at all. So far, they seem to have used a lot of hype and false claims, breathless users reports about how wonderful the device is.."look, I have no more problems", but no very standard, properly controlled, double blind experiments with a control and a victim to determine the validity of the manufactures claims.

Sorry, but this is a device that sounds good..too good, and there is no provided proof that it does what it claims, and a monstrously huge pile of evidence that it cannot do what they claim. It's kind of like when I was a teenager, and we wore a thin braded leather band around our wrists. When someone would ask what that band was, we would answer that it was a 'Bear Scare'...see it works, I would say..there are no bears around!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior

Does anyone else have a longterm experience with Algae-X? I ask this because I went to their website and read the "theory of operation" and "why bacteria hate magnets."

Nothing is said about breaking the contaminants down to 1micron, but rather that they are killed (I assume they could disintegrate...).

Reading these articles remind me of late night snake oil salesmen. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I am saying that the salespitch is awfully suspicious.

Here's something I found on How Algae-X works:

The principle is induction, the process of transferring the energy of motion (kinetic energy) into electric energy by means of magnetic field. Algae-X provides a powerful magnetic treatment chamber. Induction affects the fuel with suspended microbes and particles passing through the unit.

Microbes are very small one-cell organisms, a membrane filled with cellular fluid and electrolytes. Their metabolism and reproduction depends on an electric balance over the cell membrane. Any disturbance of this delicate balance is detrimental to the cell's life sustaining functions. The induced electric charges, which occur as fuel passes through the Algae-X unit, disrupt the functionality of the cell, preventing its metabolic and reproductive processes and the resultant biodegradation of the fuel that forms solids.

Induction also reverses the formation of these solids by re-dissolving agglomeration of paraffin, asphaltenes and other contaminants. These results are:

* improved combustion
* longer filter life
* clean fuel systems

[Duncan Maio]

Larry's advice sounds like a great way to go, but we came across another product today that also sounds too good to be true. Anybody heard of/used a "Diesel Purifier" from RCI Purifier International?



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