CD25 full batten sail question

[Bill Jarrell]

Happy New Year All!!

I know that there have been numerous threads regarding full battens, but nothing that exactly addresses my question. Sitting here in Maine waiting for warmer weather, I began to relive last summer and something popped into my mind that I want to get the collective wisdom of the CD clan. The conversation that I'm going to relay may have gotten slightly cloudy, but is essentially what I think I heard. I went into Doyle Sails to inquire about a new Main for my '76 CD25. I had decided, based on the "glowing" comments of this board, to get a full batten, loose footed Main. They said that they had problems with full batten mains with normal slugs and that they recommended using an expensive car system to raise the sail. I didn't get into too much detail, but beleive I have seen the car/batten system they were talking about. The bottom line was that the sail was so expensive that I decided to stretch out another season on my very tired main. I'm not questioning Doyle, but I wonder if you think that I can get by with the standard slugs, or do I have to get (if I choose the full batten) this expensive car and track system? Also I have a lead on a full batten sail with a regular rope secured foot, rather than the loose footed. Even though it is a "secured" foot do the benefits of the full battens, even if I use regualr slugs, warrent that I get it rather than the standard regular battened main?

Thank you everybody for your comments. FYI just looked outside and saw some hardy soul sailing out of Belfast Harbor. Spring has got be just around the corner!!

Bill



billjarr@mint.net

[len]

bill

i have a full battened main on my CD31 with regular slugs - it is true that it won't drop down by its own weight, at least not all the way down, but i haven't had a bit of trouble with it - i think cars etc. are overkill except on much bigger boats - as i have before, i recommend thurston sails in bristol, RI, they are just terrific

len



md.frel@nwh.org

[Ed Haley]

Bill:
There is an intermediary option you can take. Schaefer Marine makes an item called a BattSlide that is a device that becomes an extension of each batten and rides on a toggle-type car in the main luff track. In between the battens are additional friction-reducing cars that ride on a traditional slug. The system is less expensive that full-blown batten cars and works almost as well. The extra cost of these BattSlides are mitigated by the greater ease you'll find in raising and lowering the main as well as in reefing and trimming the main. You won't have to fight the frictional effects of traditional plastic slides.

In addition, while trimming the main, the main acts as a single foil instead of being composed of separate sections divided by friction points that sometimes develop.

A full description is available on the Schaefer Marine website.



eghaley@twcny.rr.com

[Tim Akers]

Happy New Year All!!

I know that there have been numerous threads regarding full battens, but nothing that exactly addresses my question. Sitting here in Maine waiting for warmer weather, I began to relive last summer and something popped into my mind that I want to get the collective wisdom of the CD clan. The conversation that I'm going to relay may have gotten slightly cloudy, but is essentially what I think I heard. I went into Doyle Sails to inquire about a new Main for my '76 CD25. I had decided, based on the "glowing" comments of this board, to get a full batten, loose footed Main. They said that they had problems with full batten mains with normal slugs and that they recommended using an expensive car system to raise the sail. I didn't get into too much detail, but beleive I have seen the car/batten system they were talking about. The bottom line was that the sail was so expensive that I decided to stretch out another season on my very tired main. I'm not questioning Doyle, but I wonder if you think that I can get by with the standard slugs, or do I have to get (if I choose the full batten) this expensive car and track system? Also I have a lead on a full batten sail with a regular rope secured foot, rather than the loose footed. Even though it is a "secured" foot do the benefits of the full battens, even if I use regualr slugs, warrent that I get it rather than the standard regular battened main?

Thank you everybody for your comments. FYI just looked outside and saw some hardy soul sailing out of Belfast Harbor. Spring has got be just around the corner!!

Bill

I just had a new full batten sail with slugs made for my CD 28. Have only sailed it twice. It is a little stiff, but I am convinced that with a little Harken track lube it will work fine. I would not bother with anything more elaborate.

Tim Akers



tcakers@bellsouth.net

[Mike Thorpe]

Bill,
IMHO fully batten mains are a waste of time and money on low aspect rigs. I've had both full and conventional battened mains on my CD 27 and 36. In fact I just had the one year old Main on my CD 36 converted back to conventional battens. When I had ordered this sail my sailmaker told me full battens were a mistake but I didn't listen. Everything he said was true.

The original purpose of a fully battened main was to gain sail area in the roach area of the mainsail (read high aspect Cat Rigs). Something you don't want on sailboat with the weather helm tendencies of the low aspect rig that Cape Dory carry. Also, because there is so little clearance between the backstay and the main on our low aspect sail plans you don't gain very much if any additional sail area.

What you do get for a lot of money is a sail that is more difficult to raise and lower, especially when the wind picks up. Also the sail will not luff and it makes it very difficult to hold the boat head to the wind.

As I said, IMHO don't waste your money on a fully battened main.

Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End

Happy New Year All!!

I know that there have been numerous threads regarding full battens, but nothing that exactly addresses my question. Sitting here in Maine waiting for warmer weather, I began to relive last summer and something popped into my mind that I want to get the collective wisdom of the CD clan. The conversation that I'm going to relay may have gotten slightly cloudy, but is essentially what I think I heard. I went into Doyle Sails to inquire about a new Main for my '76 CD25. I had decided, based on the "glowing" comments of this board, to get a full batten, loose footed Main. They said that they had problems with full batten mains with normal slugs and that they recommended using an expensive car system to raise the sail. I didn't get into too much detail, but beleive I have seen the car/batten system they were talking about. The bottom line was that the sail was so expensive that I decided to stretch out another season on my very tired main. I'm not questioning Doyle, but I wonder if you think that I can get by with the standard slugs, or do I have to get (if I choose the full batten) this expensive car and track system? Also I have a lead on a full batten sail with a regular rope secured foot, rather than the loose footed. Even though it is a "secured" foot do the benefits of the full battens, even if I use regualr slugs, warrent that I get it rather than the standard regular battened main?

Thank you everybody for your comments. FYI just looked outside and saw some hardy soul sailing out of Belfast Harbor. Spring has got be just around the corner!!

Bill

mthorpe@capecod.net

[Marino Curati]

Full battens are really nice in light air. However, they WILL hang up in your backstay when tacking and you'll need to slam the boom over when you jibe.

I ordered a new main for my Ty last winter from Sommerset. I asked for a conventional main for the reasons above, but got a full batten main anyway. I probably should have sent it back but I didn't.

As far as hoisting and dowsing, there's no problem if you do it properly by pointing into the wind. As far as the sail not coming down by its own weight, you don't want it to do that. If you're single handing and want to reef, it would be bad to have the sail come down other than by pulling it down. I heave to when reefing and if the sail was to come down, it would screw up the balance of the boat causing it to fall off.

It sounds like you should do some shopping. Doyle makes great sails but can be expensive. If you're cruising, call some smaller lofts for a quote. Use the web; there are a lot of lofts out there and it is January, there are deals to be had.

Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland



mcurati@earthlink.net

[Bob B.]

I echo Mike's sentiments. I sailed a CD27 for several years with a conventional main and have a typhoon at present with the conventional battens. I recently acquired a CD25D with a full batten main and am wondering what it will cost me to have it recut and converted to the conventional battens. I haven't had it hang in the backstay but I do have to take the gate off the mast track to reef the main. The larger cars will not slide over or through the gate and what was a minute or so to reef a sail becomes several. It may not be a big deal but I also like being able to look at the luff of the main and see if it is drawing properly rather than have the sail pressed into it's proper shape by the battens. With proper topping lift and boom vang technique I can keep the conventional rig trimmed out as good as the full batten. I would price it out and see if the extra money is worth it.

Just my two cents.

Bob B.
CD25D Tiva



BundyR@aol.com

[Andy Denmark]

I fully agree with Mike and Bob. This main on this boat is too small to benefit from full battens. From a sailmaker's perspective I'd suggest a full top batten (with a standard slug) to keep the top of the sail from twisting off, perhaps a longer second batten, and loose footed for sure. If you need such a thing (questionable on such a small boat) a dutchman system is much preferable to lazy jacks IMHO. I would also use foam core tapered battens instead of the standard pulltruded battens which are too heavy and inflexible for this small sail. Keep the roach small enough so hanging up on the backstay isn't a problem and don't forget two standard reef rows.

This describes the main I'm putting on Rhiannon this spring. In addition I'm installing the small Strong Track system to aid in hoisting, reefing, and lowering. Also considering using cruising laminate instead of Dacron.

Excluding the Dutchman setup (which is certainly optional) I suspect this sail would be close to the price of a fully battened main and much more practical.

For what it's worth.

Andy Denmark (ex Banks Sails/Carolina)
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC





trekker@coastalnet.com

[Jim]

I bought a new main last year for my CD25. Only the top 2 battens are full. The others are longer than traditional but not full. It only hangs up on the backstay in very light air. I did switch to a Strong systems mast/sail track.
With it there is no gate problem with reefing and the sail goes up and down very easily. For safety reasons you never want a system that requires you to pull a sail down. You should be able to douse your sails immediately if the need arrises.



jmyers@styluscentral.com

[Jack and Jo Chamberlain]

Here's my two-cents worth: We replaced our tired old regular main with a full batten main on our CD 33 last year. From Quantum. Expensive, but not much more than regular battens. We love it. It has tell tails on the leech, but I can still see a luff when it luffs. The sail slides are bronze at the battens and regular slides in between. Not loose footed. No problem with hanging up on the back stay. We also had lazyjacks installed to make sail handling easier, and it works fine. Head into the wind, and ease the jacks, and it goes up fine. Maybe it's just beacause it's a new sail and a regular new sail would have been fine, but we love our full batten main.

I know that there have been numerous threads regarding full battens, but nothing that exactly addresses my question. Sitting here in Maine waiting for warmer weather, I began to relive last summer and something popped into my mind that I want to get the collective wisdom of the CD clan. The conversation that I'm going to relay may have gotten slightly cloudy, but is essentially what I think I heard. I went into Doyle Sails to inquire about a new Main for my '76 CD25. I had decided, based on the "glowing" comments of this board, to get a full batten, loose footed Main. They said that they had problems with full batten mains with normal slugs and that they recommended using an expensive car system to raise the sail. I didn't get into too much detail, but beleive I have seen the car/batten system they were talking about. The bottom line was that the sail was so expensive that I decided to stretch out another season on my very tired main. I'm not questioning Doyle, but I wonder if you think that I can get by with the standard slugs, or do I have to get (if I choose the full batten) this expensive car and track system? Also I have a lead on a full batten sail with a regular rope secured foot, rather than the loose footed. Even though it is a "secured" foot do the benefits of the full battens, even if I use regualr slugs, warrent that I get it rather than the standard regular battened main?

Thank you everybody for your comments. FYI just looked outside and saw some hardy soul sailing out of Belfast Harbor. Spring has got be just around the corner!!

Bill

jchamber@crosslink.net

[Bruce Bett]

About 2 years I talked with several Detroit area sail makers about a new main and jenny for Sostenuto, my 1977 Cape Dory 25. I got several good proposals and of course several prices. The one I finally went with was from UK sails. They recomended a full batten loose footed main. I questened them about the need for cars as I had heard they were needed with a full batton main. They told me standard sluggs would work just fine. They were right they work just fine. I like the sail very much and have had no trouble getting it up and down. I do recomend lubricating the slot in the mast with candle wax.

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto
CD 25 #496

Happy New Year All!!

I know that there have been numerous threads regarding full battens, but nothing that exactly addresses my question. Sitting here in Maine waiting for warmer weather, I began to relive last summer and something popped into my mind that I want to get the collective wisdom of the CD clan. The conversation that I'm going to relay may have gotten slightly cloudy, but is essentially what I think I heard. I went into Doyle Sails to inquire about a new Main for my '76 CD25. I had decided, based on the "glowing" comments of this board, to get a full batten, loose footed Main. They said that they had problems with full batten mains with normal slugs and that they recommended using an expensive car system to raise the sail. I didn't get into too much detail, but beleive I have seen the car/batten system they were talking about. The bottom line was that the sail was so expensive that I decided to stretch out another season on my very tired main. I'm not questioning Doyle, but I wonder if you think that I can get by with the standard slugs, or do I have to get (if I choose the full batten) this expensive car and track system? Also I have a lead on a full batten sail with a regular rope secured foot, rather than the loose footed. Even though it is a "secured" foot do the benefits of the full battens, even if I use regualr slugs, warrent that I get it rather than the standard regular battened main?

Thank you everybody for your comments. FYI just looked outside and saw some hardy soul sailing out of Belfast Harbor. Spring has got be just around the corner!!

Bill