Unusual Question

[David Paul]

Many thanks to all who answered. I'm already familiar with Bill Ludders. I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but functionally, I think a lot of his boats are in some ways superior to a lot of Alberg's designs. Most of his boats, some of the CDs excepted have that LONG canoe stern, which makes for a very pretty boat. I love my Southcoast, but it's not quite big enough for the type of live-aboard cruising I'd like to do one day.

Thanks again,

David Paul



David.Paul@uchsc.edu

[Bill Goldsmith]

You shouldn't get slammed here. This august group seems pretty open to honest opinion and frank debate!!

Bill Goldsmith

Many thanks to all who answered. I'm already familiar with Bill Ludders. I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but functionally, I think a lot of his boats are in some ways superior to a lot of Alberg's designs. Most of his boats, some of the CDs excepted have that LONG canoe stern, which makes for a very pretty boat. I love my Southcoast, but it's not quite big enough for the type of live-aboard cruising I'd like to do one day.

Thanks again,

David Paul

goldy@bestweb.net

[eric]

I was also looking for a Cape Dory a few years ago, and found a few other quite similar boats. Bristol is the closest. I ended up with a Bristol, and a funny incident occured. I keep a photo of my Bristol in profile posted in my office. A good friend snuck in one day after work, and substituted a photo of his Cape Dory in profile for my Bristol. It took me two weeks to notice! Other similar boats are Pearson, Tartan and Dufour. Check out the Bristol list on sailnet.com, as well as other lists. Take a look at Good Old Boat for other ideas. CD's are great, but there are comparable boats out there.

- eric



posmentier@dartmouth.edu

[Larry DeMers]

I don't know that I agree with you that all of those boats you listed are comparable to the Cape Dory line. One of the hallmarks of the Cape Dory is the fact that they are full keel boats, fairly narrow in beam and gracefully drawn. The Pearson and Tartan (with the exception of the Tartan 27 from long ago) are both fin keel boats with a stab rudder. They could not be more different. The Dufour is a French fin keeler of poor quality..again not what I would call comparable unless you are trying to disparage Cape Dory's...which I doubt you are doing here. But there are Legitimate Differences between Cape Dory's and other boats out there, and that is one of the reasons that the resale values are so high for these boats (when taken care of).

The reason that the Bristol looks like a Cape Dory is that Carl Alberg designed the Bristol, I believe. Will have to reread the current Good Old Boat mag. which has a great review of all the work that Carl Alberg did.

The Pearson and Tartan are good boats in their own right, and for their own purposes (club racers, limited coastal cruising), but they are not comparable with the Cape Dory except that they are also boats. >IMHO<!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior

I was also looking for a Cape Dory a few years ago, and found a few other quite similar boats. Bristol is the closest. I ended up with a Bristol, and a funny incident occured. I keep a photo of my Bristol in profile posted in my office. A good friend snuck in one day after work, and substituted a photo of his Cape Dory in profile for my Bristol. It took me two weeks to notice! Other similar boats are Pearson, Tartan and Dufour. Check out the Bristol list on sailnet.com, as well as other lists. Take a look at Good Old Boat for other ideas. CD's are great, but there are comparable boats out there.

- eric

demers@sgi.com

[john doyle]

I don't know that I agree with you that all of those boats you listed are comparable to the Cape Dory line. One of the hallmarks of the Cape Dory is the fact that they are full keel boats, fairly narrow in beam and gracefully drawn. The Pearson and Tartan (with the exception of the Tartan 27 from long ago) are both fin keel boats with a stab rudder. They could not be more different. The Dufour is a French fin keeler of poor quality..again not what I would call comparable unless you are trying to disparage Cape Dory's...which I doubt you are doing here. But there are Legitimate Differences between Cape Dory's and other boats out there, and that is one of the reasons that the resale values are so high for these boats (when taken care of).

The reason that the Bristol looks like a Cape Dory is that Carl Alberg designed the Bristol, I believe. Will have to reread the current Good Old Boat mag. which has a great review of all the work that Carl Alberg did.

The Pearson and Tartan are good boats in their own right, and for their own purposes (club racers, limited coastal cruising), but they are not comparable with the Cape Dory except that they are also boats. >IMHO<!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior

I was also looking for a Cape Dory a few years ago, and found a few other quite similar boats. Bristol is the closest. I ended up with a Bristol, and a funny incident occured. I keep a photo of my Bristol in profile posted in my office. A good friend snuck in one day after work, and substituted a photo of his Cape Dory in profile for my Bristol. It took me two weeks to notice! Other similar boats are Pearson, Tartan and Dufour. Check out the Bristol list on sailnet.com, as well as other lists. Take a look at Good Old Boat for other ideas. CD's are great, but there are comparable boats out there.

- eric

A note from a guy who has spent a lot of $ trying to find the right boat & finally own a Cape Dory.
I owned a Tarten 34 (1973) which was a modified full keel with a centerboard. Spent many hours bashing around in the gulf stream off of W.Palm Beach in very large seas & big winds to build up my skill for off shore. In short, the Tarten is a nice boat, but not built for off shore work. We over stressed her. Another boat we owned was an Allied Seawind II sloop. As well built as my Cape Dory & we pushed her upwind in 50+ apparent and didn't starve during the passage. Another sail boat we owned was a 26' International Folkboat & was very seaworthy, but no standing headroom.
I'm glad we finally own a Cape Dory
John CD31 #18 Bonnie Blue



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[Frank Vernet]

I have to echo Eric's comment regarding the visual similarity of Cape Dorys and Bristols - I have a CD33 and, while stationed in Puerto Rico, frequently went sailing with friends/owners of a Bristol 36. We would select a pristine anchorage, raft our sailboats, spend the afternoon snorkeling, diving, and honor the sunset with a Caribbean inspired libation...or two...aahhhhh! (Sorry - got carried away in reveries - easy to do in Wash DC where it's 30F w/ flurries at the moment!).

When viewed from astern and abeam, the boats are nearly indistinguishable. Same profile, rise, shape, etc...The similarities extend to the keels and other lines.

Incidentally, our friends sailed their Bristol from Newport, RI, to Puerto Rico via Bermuda. "Best thing I've ever done" is his assessment of the experience.

Hope this helps a bit. Happy hunting.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84



frank.vernet@bmdo.osd.mil

[Andy Denmark]

Some of my choices would be a Kaiser Gale Force 33 or 34, the Bowman 36 and Camper Nicholson 35 (both Brit boats). On the smaller side I'd also strongly consider the Ericson 31/C. I've raced a Norseman 447 to Bermuda several times and it's an awfully good sea boat but the cockpit, with the signature Perry rounded corners, is terrible to try and stretch out in (aside from the fact that 45' is a bit too big for me). Another good Perry design is the Cabot 36. While both the Bermuda 40 and Tartan 37 are attractive, I find their seakeeping qualities a bit uncomfortable because they are both wet (in different ways)and the B-40 is pretty small inside for its LOA and the T-37 is a bit light. I wouldn't discount the Pearson 424 aft cockpit ketch either - solid, seakindly and lots of room. Same goes for a more modern design, the Sceptre 41 built near Vancouver, BC. Other Pacific NW boats would be the Amazon 37 (steel) and the Valiant 40.

Ain't it fun to dream?

FWIW

Andy Denmark
CD-27 #270 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC



trekker@coastalnet.com

[Larry DeMers]

My understanding is that Carl Alberg designed some of the Bristols. See the current issue of Good Old Boat mag. It has a long article on Carl Albergs designs.
In the article, Carl is reported to have said that his designs were attempts to perfect the design of the bow on his boats. Not too full, not too plumb etc. I would say he came pretty close to perfection...but I AM predjudiced.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I have to echo Eric's comment regarding the visual similarity of Cape Dorys and Bristols - I have a CD33 and, while stationed in Puerto Rico, frequently went sailing with friends/owners of a Bristol 36. We would select a pristine anchorage, raft our sailboats, spend the afternoon snorkeling, diving, and honor the sunset with a Caribbean inspired libation...or two...aahhhhh! (Sorry - got carried away in reveries - easy to do in Wash DC where it's 30F w/ flurries at the moment!).

When viewed from astern and abeam, the boats are nearly indistinguishable. Same profile, rise, shape, etc...The similarities extend to the keels and other lines.

Incidentally, our friends sailed their Bristol from Newport, RI, to Puerto Rico via Bermuda. "Best thing I've ever done" is his assessment of the experience.

Hope this helps a bit. Happy hunting.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84

demers@sgi.com

[Warren Kaplan]

While both the Bermuda 40 and Tartan 37 are attractive, I find their seakeeping qualities a bit uncomfortable because they are both wet (in different ways)and the B-40 is pretty small inside for its LOA

Ain't it fun to dream?

FWIW

Andy Denmark
CD-27 #270 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC

Andy,
The time I was on the B-40 it wasn't wet but I must confess that on that day conditions were such that a Sunfish wouldn't have been wet either! My wife did remark that below decks the accomodations were quite small for a boat that size and I would have to agree. I suppose the designer put his main emphasis on seaworthiness and cabin design suffered. A B-40 is an old design and perhaps with the evolution in sailboat design the architects have figured out how to have the best of boat worlds in the really good boats. But every time I sail past a B-40, I can tell those lines from far, far away. I love 'um!

WarrenKaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27



Setsail728@aol.com

[Jon]

We must work to ameliorate this grave condition from which you suffer.

Fair winds,

Bob

He doesn't "suffer" from it. Like many, I think he ENJOYS it!

Jon
CD25 Sovereign

[Brian]

The Bristol does indeed have nice lines. It was one of the finalists back when our CD was purchased. What ultimately influenced the decision was a trip to the factories.

Visited Cape Dory, Bristol and Pearson. Pearson's factory was orderly, but the product line was just not as impressive. The Cape Dory factory was top notch- nothing out of place, organized, etc. Bristol was another story- when we got there and asked for a tour they politely said "yeah, you can go walk around," and just let us wander the facility (I'm sure insurance would prevent that these days). While the boats they put out were impressive, the factory was an absolute mess - unorganized, fiberglass and various items left on the floor everywhere- we joke about it to this day. We figured the factories spoke of the quality of the construction, and went with the CD.

Now if money is not an issue... any Hinkley looks fantastic, the Alden has lines almost as wonderful and Little Harbors are quite impressive themseleves (with CD like-all oval ports to boot). Island Packets? While their first add campain of "Seas Beyond Cape Dory" was flatering, what's with their insistance on the almond colored gel coat?

Brian

[David Paul]

Thanks again to everyone who responded. FYI here's what I've decided:

The PS Crealock 34 would probably right up there if money were not an object. Very nice boat and excellent company reputation.

Also looked at the Alberg 37....really looked, but the LWL is just a little shorter than the Cape Dory 36 and you've got that LONG stern sticking way out. These boats also have a reputation for being difficult to manuver near the dock under power. I'd still consider one, but it would be a second choice.

The Nor'Sea 27 has a lot of nice features. Tons of room for that size boat, but it's a little on the light side. And the company is shaky at best.

The more I find out about the Cape Dory 36 the better it looks. Of course, it may be a few years, so by that time a Robinhood 36 might be affordable too. We'll see.



David.Paul@uchsc.edu

[Ken Coit]

I wonder how many man-years have been spent coming to that same conclusion. I studied a lot, looked at boats from NH to CA, IL to LA, and finally concluded that the Cape Dory 36 was the right boat. Now if I can just get me up to its specs, we'll be all set.

Ken
CD/36 Parfait
Raleigh, NC

Thanks again to everyone who responded. FYI here's what I've decided:

The PS Crealock 34 would probably right up there if money were not an object. Very nice boat and excellent company reputation.

Also looked at the Alberg 37....really looked, but the LWL is just a little shorter than the Cape Dory 36 and you've got that LONG stern sticking way out. These boats also have a reputation for being difficult to manuver near the dock under power. I'd still consider one, but it would be a second choice.

The Nor'Sea 27 has a lot of nice features. Tons of room for that size boat, but it's a little on the light side. And the company is shaky at best.

The more I find out about the Cape Dory 36 the better it looks. Of course, it may be a few years, so by that time a Robinhood 36 might be affordable too. We'll see.

PPPPparfait@nc.rr.com

[Larry DeMers]

The 'long stern' sticking way out there is a ratings trick from the 60-70's (CCA Rules?). When heeled, that stern quarter lays down into the water, increasing your waterline length, increasing max hull speed beyond that which the at-rest LWL would have given you. I have sailed on an A37, and they are fabulous boats. Don't be too quick to dismiss them. They are serenely beautiful under sail and at rest.

You will find that you will have a learning curve for **any** full keel boat you buy, if it is your first one. The A37 is no more difficult to maneuver than the CD36 for instance..why should it be? They are almost identical in underwater shapes and power. It is the operator notthe boat. It will take time to learn how to use the boats momentum to advantage..as well as the 'P' Effect of the prop (prop walk). We need to make a 180 deg. turn in a boats length when entering our marina in big winds and waves. I do so with reverse power applied, using the prop walk to pull hte stern around. An observer would see the boat literally slide through a 180 turn as we negotitate the breakwater and pass between it and the first docks.
Conversely, a fin keeled vessel would simply steer into the turn like normal..now that is NO Fun. heh!


Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Thanks again to everyone who responded. FYI here's what I've decided:

The PS Crealock 34 would probably right up there if money were not an object. Very nice boat and excellent company reputation.

Also looked at the Alberg 37....really looked, but the LWL is just a little shorter than the Cape Dory 36 and you've got that LONG stern sticking way out. These boats also have a reputation for being difficult to manuver near the dock under power. I'd still consider one, but it would be a second choice.

The Nor'Sea 27 has a lot of nice features. Tons of room for that size boat, but it's a little on the light side. And the company is shaky at best.

The more I find out about the Cape Dory 36 the better it looks. Of course, it may be a few years, so by that time a Robinhood 36 might be affordable too. We'll see.

demers@sgi.com