During the rainy season here in California I end up with a couple of inches of water in the bilge. At some point there is just enough water to cause the float switch to activate the pump whic runs for a second or two stops, the water runs back into the bigle and the process repeats over and over until the fuse burns out. I think a check valve would help but is there any other solution? If I use a check valve I will just end up with the water sitting in the hose.
Larry
cd 33 dolce
bilge pumps
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ken Coit
Re: bilge pumps
Larry,
I think the check valve may be the inexpensive alternative unless you can simply move the switch or the pump intake (are they a single unit?) such that the float will fall to its intended limit when the bilge is "drained." It sounds as if the float is on the verge of closing the switch even when the bilge is "dry." If that is the case, it wouldn't take much water falling back to cause the switch to turn the pump on.
Maybe some bilge trash is keeping the float higher than it ought to be? Routing the outlet hose such that it runs high and then down to the thru-hull might allow the siphoning action to clear most of the hose after the pump stops.
There are more complicated float arrangements with greater hysterisis that would avoid your problem, by running the pump longer than a simple float switch will allow, but I'll bet there is a less complex and costly fix.
Keep on sailing,
Ken
Pparfait@nc.rr.com
I think the check valve may be the inexpensive alternative unless you can simply move the switch or the pump intake (are they a single unit?) such that the float will fall to its intended limit when the bilge is "drained." It sounds as if the float is on the verge of closing the switch even when the bilge is "dry." If that is the case, it wouldn't take much water falling back to cause the switch to turn the pump on.
Maybe some bilge trash is keeping the float higher than it ought to be? Routing the outlet hose such that it runs high and then down to the thru-hull might allow the siphoning action to clear most of the hose after the pump stops.
There are more complicated float arrangements with greater hysterisis that would avoid your problem, by running the pump longer than a simple float switch will allow, but I'll bet there is a less complex and costly fix.
Keep on sailing,
Ken
Larry Mace wrote: During the rainy season here in California I end up with a couple of inches of water in the bilge. At some point there is just enough water to cause the float switch to activate the pump whic runs for a second or two stops, the water runs back into the bigle and the process repeats over and over until the fuse burns out. I think a check valve would help but is there any other solution? If I use a check valve I will just end up with the water sitting in the hose.
Larry
cd 33 dolce
Pparfait@nc.rr.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: bilge pumps
>>Routing the outlet hose such that it runs high and then down to the thru-hull might allow the siphoning action to clear most of the hose after the pump stops.<<
For a siphon to work, the intake has to be higher than the outflow.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
For a siphon to work, the intake has to be higher than the outflow.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
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Ken Coit
Re: bilge pumps
I agree. However, if there is an intentional or accidental vacuum break higher than the outlet, then at least the bilge water won't siphon back into the bilge from the entire hose.
Ken
PPPparfait@nc.rr.com
Ken
Neil Gordon wrote: >>Routing the outlet hose such that it runs high and then down to the thru-hull might allow the siphoning action to clear most of the hose after the pump stops.<<
For a siphon to work, the intake has to be higher than the outflow.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
PPPparfait@nc.rr.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: bilge pumps
Hi Larry,
I'm faced with this problem as well and the only solution I can think of is to have 2 electric bilge pumps (and your manual one); one small pump fitted with a check valve right at the pump. It is used as a maintenance pump for what ever you get down there during the week and a bigger pump with the switch installed higher up in the bilge for when your really need to start pumping out a lot of water. The bigger pump should not have a check valve and it could be left in the "automatic" position in case a hose blows while your not around. I don't know if standing water in the hose is any big deal....better there then in the bottom of the bilge. Another option would be to make the maintenance pump one of those that you mount outside of the bilge and let the intake hose for the pump sit down at the very bottom with a screen. I think these will actually pull all the water up to them and once it makes it past the pump, the water won't fall back down. I think I would wire this pump switch for maunal operation only....that way if there is a little water that comes back, you won't get cycling and you'd still have the bigger pump ready in "automatic" if the water really gets serious. I think Don Casey wrote an article about this probelm. Might find it on SailNet.
Good luck.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
I'm faced with this problem as well and the only solution I can think of is to have 2 electric bilge pumps (and your manual one); one small pump fitted with a check valve right at the pump. It is used as a maintenance pump for what ever you get down there during the week and a bigger pump with the switch installed higher up in the bilge for when your really need to start pumping out a lot of water. The bigger pump should not have a check valve and it could be left in the "automatic" position in case a hose blows while your not around. I don't know if standing water in the hose is any big deal....better there then in the bottom of the bilge. Another option would be to make the maintenance pump one of those that you mount outside of the bilge and let the intake hose for the pump sit down at the very bottom with a screen. I think these will actually pull all the water up to them and once it makes it past the pump, the water won't fall back down. I think I would wire this pump switch for maunal operation only....that way if there is a little water that comes back, you won't get cycling and you'd still have the bigger pump ready in "automatic" if the water really gets serious. I think Don Casey wrote an article about this probelm. Might find it on SailNet.
Good luck.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
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sloopjohnl
Re: bilge pumps
good point about what's left in the hose. i put my anti-siphon loop as close to the pump as i could get it and still be above the outlet. what's in the hose won't be cause for osmosis or stench somewhere else in the boat.
Patrick Turner wrote: Hi Larry,
I'm faced with this problem as well and the only solution I can think of is to have 2 electric bilge pumps (and your manual one); one small pump fitted with a check valve right at the pump. It is used as a maintenance pump for what ever you get down there during the week and a bigger pump with the switch installed higher up in the bilge for when your really need to start pumping out a lot of water. The bigger pump should not have a check valve and it could be left in the "automatic" position in case a hose blows while your not around. I don't know if standing water in the hose is any big deal....better there then in the bottom of the bilge. Another option would be to make the maintenance pump one of those that you mount outside of the bilge and let the intake hose for the pump sit down at the very bottom with a screen. I think these will actually pull all the water up to them and once it makes it past the pump, the water won't fall back down. I think I would wire this pump switch for maunal operation only....that way if there is a little water that comes back, you won't get cycling and you'd still have the bigger pump ready in "automatic" if the water really gets serious. I think Don Casey wrote an article about this probelm. Might find it on SailNet.
Good luck.
Pat
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Larry M
Re: check valve
Hi Pat,
I do not think I have as much room as you do to put in a second pump. I will have to take a look. But I was wondering why you would not put a check valve in the second pump? Given that I will most likely end up with a check valve on my pump is there some reason I should be concerned with?
Larry
I do not think I have as much room as you do to put in a second pump. I will have to take a look. But I was wondering why you would not put a check valve in the second pump? Given that I will most likely end up with a check valve on my pump is there some reason I should be concerned with?
Larry
Patrick Turner wrote: Hi Larry,
I'm faced with this problem as well and the only solution I can think of is to have 2 electric bilge pumps (and your manual one); one small pump fitted with a check valve right at the pump. It is used as a maintenance pump for what ever you get down there during the week and a bigger pump with the switch installed higher up in the bilge for when your really need to start pumping out a lot of water. The bigger pump should not have a check valve and it could be left in the "automatic" position in case a hose blows while your not around. I don't know if standing water in the hose is any big deal....better there then in the bottom of the bilge. Another option would be to make the maintenance pump one of those that you mount outside of the bilge and let the intake hose for the pump sit down at the very bottom with a screen. I think these will actually pull all the water up to them and once it makes it past the pump, the water won't fall back down. I think I would wire this pump switch for maunal operation only....that way if there is a little water that comes back, you won't get cycling and you'd still have the bigger pump ready in "automatic" if the water really gets serious. I think Don Casey wrote an article about this probelm. Might find it on SailNet.
Good luck.
Pat
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Patrick Turner
Re: check valve
I'd be thinking of the 2nd pump as an emergency pump for getting rid of as much water as possible as quickly as possible. A check valve reduces the effeciency of the pump because it requires more work for the pump to push the water through the valve......there is some resistence even in this direction and that slows things down. The smaller first pump doesn't have to be concerned with pumping alot of water quickly, just smaller amounts, but all the way out of the bilge.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
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Larry M
Re: check valve
I agree, after further research rule does not recommend a check valve as it could cause the pump to fail if there was enough back pressure in the hose. I just have to fiqure if I can get a small pump down there and use a check valve in it. I think I would like this one to be automatic because this one would deal with the rain water that causes the problem. Never a problem the rest of the year but for our few months that it rains it sure is a pain- maybe Mexico is the solution.
Larry
Larry
Patrick Turner wrote: I'd be thinking of the 2nd pump as an emergency pump for getting rid of as much water as possible as quickly as possible. A check valve reduces the effeciency of the pump because it requires more work for the pump to push the water through the valve......there is some resistence even in this direction and that slows things down. The smaller first pump doesn't have to be concerned with pumping alot of water quickly, just smaller amounts, but all the way out of the bilge.
Pat
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sloopjohnl
Re: check valve
larry,
i have a small rule 500 with a float switch in my typhoon in the small bilge access hole. from there it goes to an anti-siphon loop attached inside the cockpit locker, then to a checkvalve at the aft end of the cockpit locker, and from there to the overboard thru-hull in the transom. works great dealing with my rainwater accumulations.
i have a small rule 500 with a float switch in my typhoon in the small bilge access hole. from there it goes to an anti-siphon loop attached inside the cockpit locker, then to a checkvalve at the aft end of the cockpit locker, and from there to the overboard thru-hull in the transom. works great dealing with my rainwater accumulations.
Larry M wrote: I agree, after further research rule does not recommend a check valve as it could cause the pump to fail if there was enough back pressure in the hose. I just have to fiqure if I can get a small pump down there and use a check valve in it. I think I would like this one to be automatic because this one would deal with the rain water that causes the problem. Never a problem the rest of the year but for our few months that it rains it sure is a pain- maybe Mexico is the solution.
Larry
Patrick Turner wrote: I'd be thinking of the 2nd pump as an emergency pump for getting rid of as much water as possible as quickly as possible. A check valve reduces the effeciency of the pump because it requires more work for the pump to push the water through the valve......there is some resistence even in this direction and that slows things down. The smaller first pump doesn't have to be concerned with pumping alot of water quickly, just smaller amounts, but all the way out of the bilge.
Pat
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Mark Yashinsky
Re: bilge pumps
Seem to remember a similiar question (last year???) and how to run the hose, so most of it would empty overboard and also not back siphon (when heeled). Check the archives.
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Mike Thompson
Re: bilge pumps
I have the switch and pump mounted on piece of plywood
which is fastened about two feet forward of the lowest point in the
bilge. Mostly it is never used as the water does not get that high
(about six inches but could be more if so desired).
This allows me to see how much water entered the boat since my
last visit.
The manual pump out hose is at the lowest point in the bilge. I punp
out before leaving the boat after each sail.
Mike
HAVEN CD28
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
which is fastened about two feet forward of the lowest point in the
bilge. Mostly it is never used as the water does not get that high
(about six inches but could be more if so desired).
This allows me to see how much water entered the boat since my
last visit.
The manual pump out hose is at the lowest point in the bilge. I punp
out before leaving the boat after each sail.
Mike
HAVEN CD28
Larry Mace wrote: During the rainy season here in California ...
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
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Jack King
Re: bilge pumps
Hi Larry,
Don Casey had a great solution to this problem that was published in/on one of the boards/mags. Basically, you use a smaller pump (I used the Rule-Mate 500 and a 3/4" o.d. hose led to its own above water thru-hull. I hooked mine up directly to the battery with a toggle switch whenever I want to manually turn it on. This is sufficient to clear out the last bit of water from the bilge (actually quite rapidly) and the run back is less than 8 oz. This pump together with my cockpit bilge pump works very well for me.
Jack King
s/v ARTESANI
Artesani@mindspring.com
Don Casey had a great solution to this problem that was published in/on one of the boards/mags. Basically, you use a smaller pump (I used the Rule-Mate 500 and a 3/4" o.d. hose led to its own above water thru-hull. I hooked mine up directly to the battery with a toggle switch whenever I want to manually turn it on. This is sufficient to clear out the last bit of water from the bilge (actually quite rapidly) and the run back is less than 8 oz. This pump together with my cockpit bilge pump works very well for me.
Jack King
s/v ARTESANI
Artesani@mindspring.com
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Ken Coit
Re: bilge pumps
Jack et al:
Here's the link to Casey's recommnedation on bilge pumps.
Ken
PPPPparfait@nc.rr.com
Here's the link to Casey's recommnedation on bilge pumps.
Ken
Jack King wrote: Hi Larry,
Don Casey had a great solution to this problem that was published in/on one of the boards/mags. Basically, you use a smaller pump (I used the Rule-Mate 500 and a 3/4" o.d. hose led to its own above water thru-hull. I hooked mine up directly to the battery with a toggle switch whenever I want to manually turn it on. This is sufficient to clear out the last bit of water from the bilge (actually quite rapidly) and the run back is less than 8 oz. This pump together with my cockpit bilge pump works very well for me.
Jack King
s/v ARTESANI
PPPPparfait@nc.rr.com
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Larry M
Re: bilge pumps
All,
Thanks for the help. I fillowed what Casey said and installed a rule 500 that is automatic (checks for water every couple minutes and if no resistance is met it shuts off-draws about .2 amps/day doing this cycle routine)and put a inline check valve at the pump and ran 3/4 inch hose out. It works fine and keeps me from putting in a check valve on the main pump which sits aft of the rule on a piece of plastic along with the float switch. I have much better peace of mind knowing the main pump is not having to deal with a little bit of rain water and is there is I really need if a hose busted.
Larry
Thanks for the help. I fillowed what Casey said and installed a rule 500 that is automatic (checks for water every couple minutes and if no resistance is met it shuts off-draws about .2 amps/day doing this cycle routine)and put a inline check valve at the pump and ran 3/4 inch hose out. It works fine and keeps me from putting in a check valve on the main pump which sits aft of the rule on a piece of plastic along with the float switch. I have much better peace of mind knowing the main pump is not having to deal with a little bit of rain water and is there is I really need if a hose busted.
Larry
Ken Coit wrote:Jack King wrote: Hi Larry,
Don Casey had a great solution to this problem that was published in/on one of the boards/mags. Basically, you use a smaller pump (I used the Rule-Mate 500 and a 3/4" o.d. hose led to its own above water thru-hull. I hooked mine up directly to the battery with a toggle switch whenever I want to manually turn it on. This is sufficient to clear out the last bit of water from the bilge (actually quite rapidly) and the run back is less than 8 oz. This pump together with my cockpit bilge pump works very well for me.
Jack King
s/v ARTESANI