The fiberglass water tanks under our CD30's settee berths have gotten a bit slimy. What's best way to clean them?
teeward@home.com
Cleaning Water Tanks
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Leo MacDonald CD33
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
Hi Ward,Ward Welsh wrote: The fiberglass water tanks under our CD30's settee berths have gotten a bit slimy. What's best way to clean them?
'Heather Ann' had a similar problem when I first took delivery.
My solution;
In the spring, while on the hard, use a garden hose w/ nozzle through the 'Inspection Port'. Aim the stream in all directions as you fill the tank. Then siphon it out to the ground, refill to the top and add a few tablespoons of chloride bleach. After a few days again siphon it out to the ground, refill your tanks.
I initially added a CUP of bleach and left it in all summer, RA complained AND was really ticked when I told her how much I put in - but we never were poisoned
I would recommend whatever you do keep it to youself. I thing there is a few previous postings on this also.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
-
Ken Coit
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
Check out Glen Snader's suggestions at the link below. He is in the water biz as well as the owner of Hobby Marine.
PPPparfait@NNnc.rr.com (del caps)
Ward Welsh wrote: The fiberglass water tanks under our CD30's settee berths have gotten a bit slimy. What's best way to clean them?
PPPparfait@NNnc.rr.com (del caps)
-
Ed Haley
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
I read Mr. Snader's water treatment process and it sounds like a foolproof way to kill those water tank critters before each season. However, and I must admit to having none of the expertise in the field as Mr. Snader, I wonder how the bacteria are able to "build up" on filter cartridge walls? I thought the chlorine was supposed to prevent any bacterium or fungus from thriving as long as the chlorine is present in sufficient ppm. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as well.
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
The tanks on our CD30 are actually polypropylene I believe..but this method should work as well on your boat. To give you a reference point, we refill our 60 gals. about every 3-4 weeks during the summer.
We use our water for everything but showering..for that we use a Solar Shower with lake water (takes a day to heat though).
In the spring, we use a hose/nozzle to spray down the insides of the tanks, moving whatever is discovered towards the drain end. Jan pumps the footpump while I spray the tanks out. Once empty of the previous years antifreeze and other junk that gets in the tank, we fill to the top, adding a packet of Water Conditioner (hypoclorite..a swimming pool bleach-like product made for water tanks) as we fill. One packet per tank. Then we install the Omni Filters Charcoal filter element. Use the carbon paper, not the carbon block filters unless you have pressure water flowing thru the filter (we don't). Costs less too!
The charcoal filter will take out the chlorine taste entirely, and give you very drinkable water. We swap filter elements once per season..as defined by our location on Lake Superior. Never have had a bacteria growth problem and doubt that it would happen since the hypochlorite solution is continually bathing any bacteria on the filter element, killing them as they do in the tank and hose system. They may be small enough to get thru the filter media, but they are dead bacteria since their environment is dissolved chlorine in water. Ie: if the chlorine killed them in the tank, and the hose and filter bowl are filled with the same water/chlorine solution, then they also will be killed in the hose and in the filter since it is the same environment.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
We use our water for everything but showering..for that we use a Solar Shower with lake water (takes a day to heat though).
In the spring, we use a hose/nozzle to spray down the insides of the tanks, moving whatever is discovered towards the drain end. Jan pumps the footpump while I spray the tanks out. Once empty of the previous years antifreeze and other junk that gets in the tank, we fill to the top, adding a packet of Water Conditioner (hypoclorite..a swimming pool bleach-like product made for water tanks) as we fill. One packet per tank. Then we install the Omni Filters Charcoal filter element. Use the carbon paper, not the carbon block filters unless you have pressure water flowing thru the filter (we don't). Costs less too!
The charcoal filter will take out the chlorine taste entirely, and give you very drinkable water. We swap filter elements once per season..as defined by our location on Lake Superior. Never have had a bacteria growth problem and doubt that it would happen since the hypochlorite solution is continually bathing any bacteria on the filter element, killing them as they do in the tank and hose system. They may be small enough to get thru the filter media, but they are dead bacteria since their environment is dissolved chlorine in water. Ie: if the chlorine killed them in the tank, and the hose and filter bowl are filled with the same water/chlorine solution, then they also will be killed in the hose and in the filter since it is the same environment.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
Ward Welsh wrote: The fiberglass water tanks under our CD30's settee berths have gotten a bit slimy. What's best way to clean them?
demers@sgi.com
-
John R.
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
Yeah, I totally agree with Ed's point. Snaders comment reads like a contradiction.
FWIW, I dump in roughly a quart of bleach (like Snader)in the CD30 tanks filled, slosh it around and basically do the fill and flush deal a couple times. Then I use Aqua Tabs to maintain the tanks. I don't drink the water from the tanks, I use bottled water. I would drink the tank water if I necessary, I'd just add an extra Aqua Tab or two just to be on the safe side. I don't run any filters in the system except a small screen filter for debris to safeguard the pump assemblies. Regular filters are just more maintenance and expense (like the one I have on the watermaker). If any bacteria is in the tank it is dead, if you drink it so what, you'll never know. I cringe at the thought of what is in regular household tap water.
I find a problem with filling the tanks to a level that is up into the fill hoses. The air vents will over-flo. I also find it puts a lot of pressure on the access cap seals and mine will leak from the pressure (even with new replaced seals). Instead I dump a lot of chlorine/H20 mix down the fill pipes before I fill the tanks with the same solution. It allows you to see what if any debris or gunk comes out of the fill hoses.
FWIW, I dump in roughly a quart of bleach (like Snader)in the CD30 tanks filled, slosh it around and basically do the fill and flush deal a couple times. Then I use Aqua Tabs to maintain the tanks. I don't drink the water from the tanks, I use bottled water. I would drink the tank water if I necessary, I'd just add an extra Aqua Tab or two just to be on the safe side. I don't run any filters in the system except a small screen filter for debris to safeguard the pump assemblies. Regular filters are just more maintenance and expense (like the one I have on the watermaker). If any bacteria is in the tank it is dead, if you drink it so what, you'll never know. I cringe at the thought of what is in regular household tap water.
I find a problem with filling the tanks to a level that is up into the fill hoses. The air vents will over-flo. I also find it puts a lot of pressure on the access cap seals and mine will leak from the pressure (even with new replaced seals). Instead I dump a lot of chlorine/H20 mix down the fill pipes before I fill the tanks with the same solution. It allows you to see what if any debris or gunk comes out of the fill hoses.
Ed Haley wrote: I read Mr. Snader's water treatment process and it sounds like a foolproof way to kill those water tank critters before each season. However, and I must admit to having none of the expertise in the field as Mr. Snader, I wonder how the bacteria are able to "build up" on filter cartridge walls? I thought the chlorine was supposed to prevent any bacterium or fungus from thriving as long as the chlorine is present in sufficient ppm. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as well.
-
Bill
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
I think you are building internal pressure as you fill your tanks. If you will remove the inspection caps (or at least loosen them most of the way) while filling the tanks, the pressure will not build up and cause the leak. IF I understand your statement correctly.
Happy Holidays
Bill
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
Happy Holidays
Bill
John R. wrote: I also find it puts a lot of pressure on the access cap seals and mine will leak from the pressure (even with new replaced seals).
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
-
JimL
Where the bacteria comes from....
Mr. Snader has it right. I talked to Dan Wagner tonight, about this. He gave me an example: He had just installed another hospital system (he takes care of the water for the Colorado Kidney Dialysis Center, and Pueblo Hospital Lab). When water was pulled from the tank tap (about a week after his install), for state certification testing, it failed for high bacteria count. He asked them if they flushed the tap hose (a 5" piece of 1/4" hose), before drawing the test sample. They told him, "Sure, we pulled out a big glass full, before taking the sample." He told them to pull 5 GALLONS to flush the hose, then test the water. It tested clean....so where did the bacteria come from? From the air/water contact in the drain hose! That's what happens in your sink or showerhead nozzles. The bacteria grows there, chlorine evaporates at the air contact (down to the carbon filter), and bacteria grows on both sides of the filter.
-
John R.
Re: Cleaning Water Tanks
I can't do that Bill if I want to get treated solution up into the vent lines and the filler hoses. I don't get any leaks if I just fill the tanks themselves. Thanks for your comments.
Bill wrote: I think you are building internal pressure as you fill your tanks. If you will remove the inspection caps (or at least loosen them most of the way) while filling the tanks, the pressure will not build up and cause the leak. IF I understand your statement correctly.
Happy Holidays
Bill
John R. wrote: I also find it puts a lot of pressure on the access cap seals and mine will leak from the pressure (even with new replaced seals).
-
Ed Haley
Re: Where the bacteria comes from....
I can understand bacteria growing at the air/water interface on the water spout and in the fill-up tubes. But the chlorine still present in the store of water should stem any bacterial growth from organisms happening to enter the water. This is similar to the antibacterial agents we place in diesel fuel to prevent bacteria from building up and clogging the diesel fuel filter. But sometimes apparently the additives do not do the job as Mr. Snader indicates.
I just changed my sediment filter and my carbon filter (2 in series) on my home cold water tap (I do it every Christmas) and there was nothing on the filter that could be construed as being organic in nature.
This makes me recall an incident that happened to our domestic water system one time. Our water system contains a huge reservoir of open water. This air/water interface was the site of a Giardia outbreak back in the late 80's and many people in our town got sick including me. It was the second site of Giardia outbreak besides the one in Russia a few years earlier. That's why I added the filter. Occasionally the filter gets clogged and has to be replaced during the middle of the year. I'll bet that's what Snader says happens. The water treatment plant doubled the amound of chlorine added for a while to stem the outbreak.
I plan to add a carbon filter to the cold water outlet on the galley sink to remove the taste of chlorine. I'll have to keep tabs on the filter to see what happens.
Ed Haley, Captain
CD330 "Mokita"
Hull #1
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
I just changed my sediment filter and my carbon filter (2 in series) on my home cold water tap (I do it every Christmas) and there was nothing on the filter that could be construed as being organic in nature.
This makes me recall an incident that happened to our domestic water system one time. Our water system contains a huge reservoir of open water. This air/water interface was the site of a Giardia outbreak back in the late 80's and many people in our town got sick including me. It was the second site of Giardia outbreak besides the one in Russia a few years earlier. That's why I added the filter. Occasionally the filter gets clogged and has to be replaced during the middle of the year. I'll bet that's what Snader says happens. The water treatment plant doubled the amound of chlorine added for a while to stem the outbreak.
I plan to add a carbon filter to the cold water outlet on the galley sink to remove the taste of chlorine. I'll have to keep tabs on the filter to see what happens.
Ed Haley, Captain
CD330 "Mokita"
Hull #1
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Where the bacteria comes from....
Hi Ed,
We have used the household type of filer unit called an Omni Filter..probably available at the hardware store. We use a carbonpaper filter with our non-pressurized water supply on board. This system has lasted for 12 years now, with a once per season filter change. We have had no problems with the system or the water quality. We do use a hypoclorite powder made for potable water treatment onboard..just can't recall the name of the darn product. I agree with you about hte entire water flow being treated, including the filter face, so no live bacteria should be assembling there.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
We have used the household type of filer unit called an Omni Filter..probably available at the hardware store. We use a carbonpaper filter with our non-pressurized water supply on board. This system has lasted for 12 years now, with a once per season filter change. We have had no problems with the system or the water quality. We do use a hypoclorite powder made for potable water treatment onboard..just can't recall the name of the darn product. I agree with you about hte entire water flow being treated, including the filter face, so no live bacteria should be assembling there.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Ed Haley wrote: I can understand bacteria growing at the air/water interface on the water spout and in the fill-up tubes. But the chlorine still present in the store of water should stem any bacterial growth from organisms happening to enter the water. This is similar to the antibacterial agents we place in diesel fuel to prevent bacteria from building up and clogging the diesel fuel filter. But sometimes apparently the additives do not do the job as Mr. Snader indicates.
I just changed my sediment filter and my carbon filter (2 in series) on my home cold water tap (I do it every Christmas) and there was nothing on the filter that could be construed as being organic in nature.
This makes me recall an incident that happened to our domestic water system one time. Our water system contains a huge reservoir of open water. This air/water interface was the site of a Giardia outbreak back in the late 80's and many people in our town got sick including me. It was the second site of Giardia outbreak besides the one in Russia a few years earlier. That's why I added the filter. Occasionally the filter gets clogged and has to be replaced during the middle of the year. I'll bet that's what Snader says happens. The water treatment plant doubled the amound of chlorine added for a while to stem the outbreak.
I plan to add a carbon filter to the cold water outlet on the galley sink to remove the taste of chlorine. I'll have to keep tabs on the filter to see what happens.
Ed Haley, Captain
CD330 "Mokita"
Hull #1
demers@sgi.com