PHRF Scoring..ATTN Capt Stump

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Don Carr

PHRF Scoring..ATTN Capt Stump

Post by Don Carr »

Attn: Capt Stump..Let's use this next year..:)))

TIME ON TIME SCORING IN PHRF

John Collins

The vast majority of handicap racing in North America is scored by the
Time on Distance (TOD) method. Here a fixed time allowance, based on
the length of the course, is used to compute the corrected time. An
advantage of TOD is that is simple and you can tell exactly where you
stand at any point in the race.

In Europe the Time On Time (TOT) scoring method is popular. Here the
time allowance for a given race depends on the time of the race. The
reasoning being that smaller boats are at a disadvantage if the race is a
slow race if the time allowance doesn’t change to account for the
conditions of the race. This TOT method is only slightly harder to
understand than TOD as the allowance at any point in the race can be
affected by a change of conditions later in the race.

Over the past few years a number of PHRF fleets have started using TOT
scoring. It has been found to help some when there is a very large
handicap spread in a class or if the race conditions are “abnormal”. The
following is a TOT conversion formula that is commonly used to convert
the standard PHRF TOD handicap into a TOT Time Correction Factor
(TCF).

A
TCF = ------------------
B + PHRF

The denominator, B + PHRF, is the number of seconds it takes to sail a
nautical mile in the expected conditions. Another way to look at it is that the
denominator divided into 3600 is the average boat speed in knots. Here
are some commonly used B factors:

B Factor
When used
480
Heavy air or all off the wind
550
Average conditions
600
Very light air or all windward
work


The numerator, A, is merely a coefficient that makes a “nice” looking TCF.
Select it so that the TCF for the middle of the fleet is about 1.000. The A
coefficient has absolutely no effect on the corrected finish order. Changing
it will only affect the various margins. Thus if your middle handicap is about
100 and your conditions are average, then the TCF formula would look like
the following:

650
TCF = ------------------
550 + PHRF

To get the corrected time, simply multiply the elapsed time by the TCF.

TOT scoring is not a cure-all for all the inequities of handicapping. TOT
scoring will not turn a fleet upside down. It usually does not affect the top
boats. It usually moves the boats in the middle around a little. If the
handicap spread in a class is large, it will tend to tighten things up a bit.





carrds@us.ibm.com
D. Stump, Hanalei

Re: AAH, sure.......

Post by D. Stump, Hanalei »

Captain Carr,

Sure, Matey, we can use that as soon as I run out of GROG and sober up a might! I printed your copy, but can't comprehend it just now! Maybe I need to be in front of a warm blazing fire in the fireplace, with a fine Port, and an even finer wench sitting next to me, when I read this so I can REALLY concentrate. i.e.: I'll need my killick!

At first read, my first comment would be: Why confuse things, PHRF is straight forward, everyone knows where they stand when they start, and it is simple! And it isn't foreign! But before we get everyone lit up, let me thinks about this a bit, and I'll get back to ya......

Hanalei
The Unknown Captain

"CAPE DORY RATING SYSTEM"

Post by The Unknown Captain »

"CAPE DORY RATING SYSTEM"

The night before the RACE. All Cape Dory Captains and crew, go from boat to boat, drink massive quantities of GROG, and as much food as possible. Enjoy the camaraderie of each crew, tell tall tales...drink more GROG...eat more food....tell more tall tales....

At the end of the night we take the previous winner (that would be Stumpy ), give him an extra ration of GROG...strap on his personal flotation device..... toss him overboard....and give him a push towards Hanalei.

At some point EARLY next morning....a designated starter will chime the ship's bell....and we're off!!!!!!!! Up comes the anchors....with said Captains and crew holding heads....and off we go !!!!!!! First one to the finish...is....THE WINNER !!!!!!! Of course the winner will be pouring more GROG.

Methinks this far simpler than Don's rating system, and something All Captains can understand.

All in favor say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The Unknown Captain Commanding
The Unknown Cape Dory
2nd Unknown Captain

Re: "CAPE DORY RATING SYSTEM"

Post by 2nd Unknown Captain »

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Unknown Captain wrote: "CAPE DORY RATING SYSTEM"

The night before the RACE. All Cape Dory Captains and crew, go from boat to boat, drink massive quantities of GROG, and as much food as possible. Enjoy the camaraderie of each crew, tell tall tales...drink more GROG...eat more food....tell more tall tales....

At the end of the night we take the previous winner (that would be Stumpy ), give him an extra ration of GROG...strap on his personal flotation device..... toss him overboard....and give him a push towards Hanalei.

At some point EARLY next morning....a designated starter will chime the ship's bell....and we're off!!!!!!!! Up comes the anchors....with said Captains and crew holding heads....and off we go !!!!!!! First one to the finish...is....THE WINNER !!!!!!! Of course the winner will be pouring more GROG.

Methinks this far simpler than Don's rating system, and something All Captains can understand.

All in favor say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The Unknown Captain Commanding
The Unknown Cape Dory
Leo MacDonald CD33

Re: "CAPE DORY RATING SYSTEM"

Post by Leo MacDonald CD33 »

CD Race Skippers,

I think the "Unknown Captain " is a prime candidate for the Race Committee Chair!! Any other opinions?

As to the vote: "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY"

Leo
Evening Light, CD33 #38,
macdore@aol.com, 860-859-9600



macdore@aol.com
Dennis

Re: PHRF Scoring..ATTN Capt Stump

Post by Dennis »

My 2 cents:

The limitations with the CD fleet using a PHRF rating from various web sources is this:
a PHRF rating is determined by the whims of the local rating committee not on quantifiable design features. PHRF was designed to not use quantifiable factors to give better handicapping among broad fleets of boats. This works well on the local level where the same rating committee rates all the boats. In our case we are essentially a "one-design" fleet and I think a formula will work.

Two identical boats may have different ratings depending on where they are. For example look at a CD 28 in three areas: I've found that a CD 28 (non-spin) rates 228 in Mid-Atlantic, 237 in New England and 254 in Eastern Connecticut.

My suggestion for a CDSOA base rating is to use the Schell Regression formula (below) since it will be applied to all boats equally. From this base rating, adjustments can be made using published factors. This eliminates the problem of us determining a rating for a boat that has not been raced under PHRF.

Schell Regression formula: http://www.well.com/user/pk/YRAphrf-sf.html
R' is the rating as predicted by the formula:
R' = 610-8.36*(SA/Disp^.333)+0.0000511*(SA^2)-55*(P/(J+E)) -30.8*(LWL^.5)-602*(DR^2/SA)
where SA= .5*(I*J)+.5*(P*E)

Here is a comparison of ratings using the Schell formula in parenthsis and the CDSOA web page:

model R' = CDSOA web
CD 25 (259) 261
CD 25-D (235) 252
CD 27 (226) 243
CD 28 (216) 219
CD 30c (213) 207
CD 30mk2 (184) n/a
CD 31 (188) 198
CD 32 (184) n/a
CD 33 (176) 186
CD 36 (174) 180



dennis.driscoll@roche.com
Michael Heintz

Finally a MK II Rating I can Live with

Post by Michael Heintz »

Unknown Captain
All CDOSA Captains

Now we're onto something!!!!!! This is a rating Macht Nichts and crew can live with!!!!!

Given the body weight of said Captain and trusty Cabin Boy Paul.... I do believe we could keep up with the Grog swilling Pirate Captain Stump, also know as...... (Stumpy).

I personally would like to volunteer for the throwing overboard of previous winner segment of the start.

We don't need no fancy rating system....we don't need no complicated math....... We are REAL Captains......We drink Grog !!!!!!!


My vote.......AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


ps.....if this system is adopted.....I can see my whole training program changing.......


Michael Heintz
Captain Commanding
Macht Nichts
CD 30 MK II
*** no longer Racing Sloop ******
Drinking Sloop



mzenith@aol.com
Don Carr

PHRF Scoring..not rating

Post by Don Carr »

I just posted the time-on-time scoring system irrespective of rating. All races in Eastern Ct Sailing Association have been time-on-time with mixed feedback. One of the good things that is taken into account
is the wind factor in determining corrected time. Even in vanilla PHRF there is a formula for absolute corrected time.
The post was from the handicapping committee of US Sailing, not just 'any' website. My CD25 was certified at 264 in Naragansett Bay using 'real' configuration and sail measurments. But then winds average 12 knots there.
Just threw out a scoring system for dialog. Of course since there are no protests..PHRF may not be that critical anyway. I have my flag on the backstay ready..:)



carrds@us.ibm.com
Dennis

Re: PHRF Scoring..not rating

Post by Dennis »

Don,
I think my thoughts for the posting where misunderstood. Both scoring systems, Time on Time and Time on Dist, still need a rating factor. Not all of us have a rating from our local fleet to bring to the table. If we did, I think we could all live with those ratings even though it will have some flaws that I attempted to point out (see below from Lake Erie).

From PHRF Lake Erie FAQ: (http://phrf-le.org/faq.htm)
I saw USSA's national PHRF book, the ratings for several boats are quite different, how come?

All PHRF areas in the US operate autonomously. Various areas use different handicapping methods including rating race results and skipper handicapping. Some areas arbitrarily add 20% to the ratings. Some areas do not do any handicapping but use an average of a class's ratings in the national book. Other areas rating reflect prevailing local conditions which favor various classes of boats.

So, how do we rate all of our boats?

Dennis
Hanalei

Re: Look at......

Post by Hanalei »

Captain Driscoll,

Take a look at the boat to boat difference in either rating system. For each system, it looks to me as if the differences are very similiar. So, I guess my question is: Why make it any more complicated than is necessary? After ALL, we ARE cruisers, NOT racers!

Of course, everyone should have some type of rating, so that we don't end up with the problems with CD-30 MkIIs and CD-32s!

Hanalei
Dennis

Re: Look at......

Post by Dennis »

To the good Cap'n Stump

Looking at the ratings used in last years race compared to the formula I presented; a CD30c gains a 22 spm advantage over a CD 30 MKII.

FWIW


Dennis
Leo MacDonald

Training Program

Post by Leo MacDonald »

Michael,

Ah . . . 'Training Program' ???, What would be the new approch?

F/W, Leo



macdore@aol.com
Michael Heintz

Re: Training Program..New Approach? DRINK GROG!!!!

Post by Michael Heintz »

Well, Leo

If we go with this new "Cape Dory Rating" system. I don't have to be out on the water all winter and spring practicing starting techniques and tacking drills. Rather I can sit in front of fireplace and drink GROG. ( Of course now I have to build a dam_ fireplace ).

Michael Heintz
Captain Commanding
Macht Nichts
Drinking Sloop



Mzenith@aol.com
Mark Yashinsky

The DRINK GROG event

Post by Mark Yashinsky »

So the challenge is to see who can drink the most Grog, and there is no rating system to account for body mass, correct??? Is this a team or individual event??? Is this a timed event, or something more basic, like who passes out first??? Just wondering.
Don Carr

Now that's what tehers are for:

Post by Don Carr »

Of course every skipper must carry ORC required safety gear. Bar tethers required. :))



carrds@US.IBM.COM
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